Robin van Persie

Status
Not open for further replies.
peterstorey said:
Exactly, you won't be doing that again in a hurry and RvP is two years older and costs twice as much in wages.
Click to expand...

But he will be an important player for us, just as he was for you. Berbatov never fit into our style, and imo Fergie only bought him because he believed he was getting another Cantona.

Only his stubborness refusing to accept the mistake he made, has left us stuck with Berba for so long. We should have cut our losses on him long ago, that is the mistake we made.

RVP will be the special player Berba was bought to be, and that is why i think SAF will sign him if he can.
 
And what if Van Persie takes a season or so to fit perfectly into the team? Then how long do we have of him in his prime? I'd rather see 30 million spent on gifted young player whose best years will either be ours or we get an astronomical fee when we sell him.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
And what if Van Persie takes a season or so to fit perfectly into the team? Then how long do we have of him in his prime? I'd rather see 30 million spent on gifted young player whose best years will either be ours or we get an astronomical fee when we sell him.
Click to expand...

What if he doesn't? What if he fits in straight away and inspires us to a CL and PL double in his first season? The bottom line is we don't know how he will fit in, or what effect he will have should we sign him. We will just have to wait and see.

But worrying about how he will do if we sign him is pointless. If Fergie signs him, it must be because he sees something in him that will make us better than we are now, surely we have to trust him on that.

Fwiw, we are still going down the gifted youngster route, but maybe SAF doesn't want to wait 3 or 4 years to see the fruits ripen, maybe he wants someone who will bring us success now. An experienced player with bags of talent and can score goals on his own out of nothing, even in a lone striker role. That is clearly something we have not got and against the better teams, is something SAF obviously thinks we could benefit from.
 
The thing about RVP is that last year was the first in his 8 year career at Arsenal when he made more than 45 starts in all games.

His injury record has been not good because in the previous 7 seasons, he averaged only 24 starts a season and 9 sub appearances.

Now assuming he has overcome his injury prone tendencies, you might take the view that at 29 he is pretty fresh given the relatively few games he has played.....or you might wonder whether last season was a one off in which case, should you factor into the price and wages the impact of further injuries?

It's a risk that must feature, one would assume, heavily in any valuation put forward by prospective purchasers.

In consequence, and as peter said above, will you pay £20m upfront and then £10m pa in wages?

I wonder?
 
Gillespie said:
The thing about RVP is that last year was the first in his 8 year career at Arsenal when he made more than 45 starts in all games.

His injury record has been not good because in the previous 7 seasons, he averaged only 24 starts a season and 9 sub appearances.

Now assuming he has overcome his injury prone tendencies, you might take the view that at 29 he is pretty fresh given the relatively few games he has played.....or you might wonder whether last season was a one off in which case, should you factor into the price and wages the impact of further injuries?

It's a risk that must feature, one would assume, heavily in any valuation put forward by prospective purchasers.

In consequence, and as peter said above, will you pay £20m upfront and then £10m pa in wages?

I wonder?
Click to expand...

The difference is he isnt going to be expected to start 45 games here as our squad depth beats Arsenals by some way.
 
apotheosis said:
What if he doesn't? What if he fits in straight away and inspires us to a CL and PL double in his first season? The bottom line is we don't know how he will fit in, or what effect he will have should we sign him. We will just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

That's the point, though. When you sign a player of his age everything happens very quickly and the pressure on the player is huge. He has a certain amount of time to make it click otherwise the money is down the drain whereas with a young player you have time to fit him in, mould him and setbacks don't hurt so much. Lucas gets injured for 6 months, it's not a big deal. VP gets injured for 6 months that's a huge chunk out of the time he has to offer to us of his best.

apotheosis said:
Fwiw, we are still going down the gifted youngster route, but maybe SAF doesn't want to wait 3 or 4 years to see the fruits ripen, maybe he wants someone who will bring us success now. An experienced player with bags of talent and can score goals on his own out of nothing, even in a lone striker role. That is clearly something we have not got and against the better teams, is something SAF obviously thinks we could benefit from.
Click to expand...

I know. I see the benefit. I'm just very wary of the risk involved in signing players of that age for big money and big wages. If you want quick results why not spend that sort of money on a player closer to his prime like Aguero where you get best of both worlds?
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
The difference is he isnt going to be expected to start 45 games here as our squad depth beats Arsenals by some way.
Click to expand...

That's a moot point, but doesn't actually deal with the premise of my question.....which is, how much is Utd willing to pay for him?

But assuming I dignify your statement with a degree of credulity, explain, if your squad is that good, why you need an expensive injury prone 29 year old ?
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
The difference is he isnt going to be expected to start 45 games here as our squad depth beats Arsenals by some way.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm thinking. If he's less than 90 % he won't be forced to play for us like he was Arsenal because one of the other guys will step in.
If he is managed right and able to perform without needing loads of games to get his rhythm after a rest it will work.
 
Gillespie said:
But assuming I dignify your statement with a degree of credulity, explain, if your squad is that good, why you need an expensive injury prone 29 year old ?
Click to expand...

He was the PL footballer of the year last season, why wouldn't we want him if we had a chance to get him?

Seems like you're running him down now because theres a strong chance he's about to leave
 
golden_blunder said:
He was the PL footballer of the year last season, why wouldn't we want him if we had a chance to get him?

Seems like you're running him down now because theres a strong chance he's about to leave
Click to expand...

I'm not running him down and would much prefer he stays with us as he is a top quality player, though if sparky hughes is to be believed and given the so called strength of your squad he will add relatively less to you at Utd than for us by staying.

Money will talk on this one. Will Arsenal stick to their guns on valuation or will they take whatever is on offer come 31 August?

I wonder?
 
I suspect he will go and a fee will be agreed in the next few days (if it hasn't already been)

Dont think its a coincidence that Wenger has brought in 2 forwards btw

3 potentially good signings for your lot if they settle but its probably too little too late for RVP, he's hunting for trophies now at his age
 
golden_blunder said:
3 potentially good signings for your lot if they settle but its probably too little too late for RVP, he's hunting for trophies now at his age
Click to expand...
That's what I think. Signings are one thing, the constant pain of getting knocked out in two/three competitions in the space of a fortnight, every season is another.
 
Gillespie said:
I'm not running him down and would much prefer he stays with us as he is a top quality player, though if sparky hughes is to be believed and given the so called strength of your squad he will add relatively less to you at Utd than for us by staying.

Money will talk on this one. Will Arsenal stick to their guns on valuation or will they take whatever is on offer come 31 August?

I wonder?
Click to expand...

That goes without saying. If he leaves it will be a massive blow for Arsenal. If he stays, it's no great loss for us.

He'd still improve us if we sign him.

Why does discussing football with Gillespie always turn into an exercise of stating the bleeding obvious?
 
Some twitter account says that SSN have said that Senior Players of Manchester United Squad have said RVP is definetely joining. Has SSN really said that?

Oh and suddenly when RVP is leaving, he's an injury prone 29yr old. Gillespie never tends to disappoint.
 
golden_blunder said:
I suspect he will go and a fee will be agreed in the next few days (if it hasn't already been)

Dont think its a coincidence that Wenger has brought in 2 forwards btw

3 potentially good signings for your lot if they settle but its probably too little too late for RVP, he's hunting for trophies now at his age
Click to expand...

I think he will go, though whether he is more likely to win trophies at OT is not certain. I am not sure you're better than last season and in particular, I don't think your midfield is good enough.

Of course, having made some good purchases, I'm hopeful we will win the Title this coming season.
 
Gillespie said:
That's a moot point, but doesn't actually deal with the premise of my question.....which is, how much is Utd willing to pay for him?

But assuming I dignify your statement with a degree of credulity, explain, if your squad is that good, why you need an expensive injury prone 29 year old ?
Click to expand...

Because he carried your lot to 3rd last season
 
If he does join, Bob Cass got one part of his story right at least.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That goes without saying. If he leaves it will be a massive blow for Arsenal. If he stays, it's no great loss for us.

He'd still improve us if we sign him.

Why does discussing football with Gillespie always turn into an exercise of stating the bleeding obvious?
Click to expand...

That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

No it doesn't, you daft sod.

Re-read what I wrote. It has absolutely nothing to do with the relative strength of the two squads, compared to each other.

Seeing as even the bleeding obvious is soaring over your head, I'm out.
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

:lol:

Are you serious?
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

You don't think our squad is stronger? That, despite you finishing 19 points behind us and on the verge of losing your best player, captain, and top scorer. You Arsenal fans are hilarious :lol::lol:
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

How are we weaker than last season? Because Michael Owen left the club? :confused:
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

How the feck are we weaker this season?
We got Scholes who wasnt there for half a season last year. We got Kagawa, who's a fantastic prospect.
We got Clev, Anderson and Vidic all fit. In fact, apart from Smalling pretty much everyone is fit (Evans is back for the start of the season if reports are trusted).
You don't make sense at all.

You Arse fans piss me right off. I'm already hoping we sign RvP just to take him away from you.
 
Gillespie said:
That doesn't go without saying, it's valid only if you accept the premise that your squad is stronger than ours. I don't accept that.As I replied to Golden, I think you're weaker this season, in particular, your midfield ain't good enough.

Your mistake is to take my conditional statement and assume its a given fact.

No rhetorician, you
Click to expand...

Don't worry, you'll have a plane to catch soon.
 
Few signings who haven't even started performing or even played for the club and the thinking changes so drastically among football fans. No wonder its a universally accepted fact that fans are fickle.
 
golden_blunder said:
i'll have a bet with you, United will finish higher in the table than Arsenal
Click to expand...

According to Betfair, the odds of Utd winning the league are 3.5

Arsenal are 13.

Converting them to percentages, that makes 28.6% and 7.7% respectively

Arsenal's chances based upon those probabilities compared to Utd is 2.7/1

I'll be generous. Give me odds of 5/2 and I'll stake £20 on it.

Are you on?
 
Gillespie said:
According to Betfair, the odds of Utd winning the league are 3.5

Arsenal are 13.

Converting them to percentages, that makes 28.6% and 7.7% respectively

Arsenal's chances based upon those probabilities compared to Utd is 2.7/1

I'll be generous. Give me odds of 5/2 and I'll stake £20 on it.

Are you on?
Click to expand...

:lol:

You're trying to convince us all that Arsenal have the stronger squad yet you set the odds of them prevailing over us at 5-2.

Talk about lacking the courage of your convictions...
 
Rob Beasley ‏@1RobBeasley

More bad news for Arsenal fans - Gillespie's in the last year of his contract, and is up for sale.
 
Godfather said:
How the feck are we weaker this season?
We got Scholes who wasnt there for half a season last year. We got Kagawa, who's a fantastic prospect.
We got Clev, Anderson and Vidic all fit. In fact, apart from Smalling pretty much everyone is fit (Evans is back for the start of the season if reports are trusted).
You don't make sense at all.

You Arse fans piss me right off. I'm already hoping we sign RvP just to take him away from you.
Click to expand...

Scholes and Giggs are not going to go on forever.Scholes was good because he only played half a season.

Carrick, Rio, Evra are fading and Ashley Young is over rated.

We have strengthened and can look forward to a better injury record than last season which was horrendous. Also, with Wilshere coming back and the Ox a year older, I think we're looking good.

It's bleeding obvious you mancs are not going to agree with me.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
:lol:

You're trying to convince us all that Arsenal have the stronger squad yet you set the odds of them prevailing over us at 5-2.

Talk about lacking the courage of your convictions...
Click to expand...

:lol:

Gillespie getting owned again.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
:lol:

You're trying to convince us all that Arsenal have the stronger squad yet you set the odds of them prevailing over us at 5-2.

Talk about lacking the courage of your convictions...
Click to expand...

The offer of a bet was made to me not by me and the widely held view of you mancs on this forum is that the Betfair odds are a fair reflection of what you believe. Why wouldn't you be more than happy to offer those odds if thats what you believe? Especially as they are an improvement on Betfair.

Talk about lacking the courage of your convictions......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.