It's like we've gone full circle back to the issue of SAF having a selection headache.
Robin van Persie
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People are giving you a lot of flak for your Scholes argument but to be fair to you, I think you're spot on. Scholes didn't really start to look the business until he was 23 or so. I remember A LOT of United fans at the time not thinking he was good enough to be a first team regular. There was more excitement about Keith Gillespie and Lee Sharpe. I, like you, am not saying that Welbeck will be as good as Scholes; but I do object to those who are saying that he's nowhere near as developed as Scholes was at the same age. Clearly using the benefit of hindsight. In fact if SAF had had Welbeck coming through the ranks at that time, I don't believe he wouldn't have bothered signing Andy Cole.
I'm all for signing RVP. Welbz will get plenty of games along with Rooney as the three strikers rotate. The one who might suffer is Chicharito. But I'd really not like to have to rely on him as a starter. Impact sub? Yes please.
Nope. I think we just like admiring him from here.
Lee Sharpe? I think your memory might be playing tricks on you.
Why ? At the age of 21 Sharpe had performed superbly at United - getting a hat-trick at Highbury, been brilliant in the CWC etc.
The sentence read as if he was referring to the same period.
slow day in New Jersey tbf
Thats a joke right?
Best post of the thread. Comedy genius.
Just completely baffling. Someone shouldn't be allowed near a computer.
Let's not be rude, "that" has a name: njred.
I think he must a facebook fan who by chance has an account on here as well.
To be honest I see Chabon's point. It would be a shame to see Welbeck, who's done so well to work his way into the side and is looking really confident, relegated to the bench.
Though chances are he'd spend half the season injured so Danny would play anyway.
If he came, that is. Which he won't, cos we can't afford him.
Though chances are he'd spend half the season injured so Danny would play anyway.
If he came, that is. Which he won't, cos we can't afford him.
I doubt us not getting RVP will be due to us not being able to afford him, more than we wont meet Arsenal's crazy valuation for a 28 year old in the final year of his contract
Personally I'm quite optimistic that this deal will happen, from everything we're reading the player wants to come here, I doubt we'd hesitate making him one of our highest earners (given his age and obviously ability) and he doesn't strike me as someone who will be ruled by his agent like Nasri was
I'm also not concerned about Welbeck, he's a great talent and did well with Rooney last season but if Berbatov goes then we need another senior striker and there's more than enough games (especially with RVP's fitness record) for Welbeck to still get the chance to shine
How can any United supporter not want Rooney & RVP up front next season?
Those are pretty much the same thing
Personally I'm quite optimistic that this deal will happen, from everything we're reading the player wants to come here, I doubt we'd hesitate making him one of our highest earners (given his age and obviously ability) and he doesn't strike me as someone who will be ruled by his agent like Nasri was
I'm also not concerned about Welbeck, he's a great talent and did well with Rooney last season but if Berbatov goes then we need another senior striker and there's more than enough games (especially with RVP's fitness record) for Welbeck to still get the chance to shine
How can any United supporter not want Rooney & RVP up front next season?
If we had unlimited resources like City I'd agree. But in the present circumstances, I'd rather we kept Berba and signed a CM, rather than blow the cash on a 29-year-old, very injury-prone striker - albeit a superb one.
Even with Berbatov I feel we're screwed without Rooney, that would be far from the case if we had RVP. I think we have to just face facts that we won't be doing anything about the centre of midfield till next summer, Fergie looked like he was going to address it last summer with the interest in Nasri and Sneijder but that was when Scholes had gone, rightly or wrongly we're going to rely on Scholes again for one final season and then finally 'try' to once again address central midfield next summer. This summer though is all about our attack; Kagawa, Hazard, Lucas, RVP
I'm definitely against this signing, especially if we're signing Lucas.
Paying 15M for him, and around 30-40M in wages for next 4 years it's really too much. Although some of this sum I imagine we'll get from Chicha's sale because if RVP will gome I am very worry about Hernandez's future.
Paying 15M for him, and around 30-40M in wages for next 4 years it's really too much. Although some of this sum I imagine we'll get from Chicha's sale because if RVP will gome I am very worry about Hernandez's future.
Problem with RVP is his injury record. Given his history and the fact that he's getting close to his 30s, it's a bit of a risky transfer. No doubt about his quality, but will he be fit for most of the season regularly as he gets older?
Nope
He'd be fitter being one of the focal points in a team that has quality around him rather than the main man at another club.
Much like the old Owen transfer people were saying that not being the talisman, the focal point will mean that his injuries can be managed.
I reckon our squad would be able to shuffle him much better than at Arsenal if he's willing to do that.
There may be something to him wanting to come here. I cannot see Fergie making a bid for him otherwise. If that is true I don't see us meeting the valuation of Arsenal with the player on his final year contract.
His Injury proneness is the biggest concern. He really only had one full injury free season that I can remember.
We have enough matches that all the strikers will get games.
His Injury proneness is the biggest concern. He really only had one full injury free season that I can remember.
We have enough matches that all the strikers will get games.
Good to see Man Utd & Man City involved in the bidding, he will be sold but will just mean we will be able to get more out Juve we would of otherwise I do think/believe that even if the Manchester clubs offer £25 mill and Juve only offer £17mill we'd sell to them over your lot.
I do think/believe that even if the Manchester clubs offer £25 mill and Juve only offer £17mill we'd sell to them over your lot.Good to see Man Utd & Man City involved in the bidding, he will be sold but will just mean we will be able to get more out Juve we would of otherwise
RVP has a say in it too tho..
Not bothered if we get him or not. But I would be gutted if I were a gooner and had to see our best players leave every year. Not the way they are going to win the title.
Though of course Arsenal will be among the top 6 teams.
Though of course Arsenal will be among the top 6 teams.
Hopefully the club stand up to that kind of nonsense and let him know who holds his contract, leave on our terms or he doesn't leave. Though don't think it will quite work like that but we can hope!
It isn't easy to take but as long as the money is properly reinvested this time I'll get over him going. Wenger has found and made better players than RvP so I have confidence he can do it again
was not taking a dig at Arsenal fans Jazz.
Yes. Wenger will always build great teams around excellent players he brings through. But proper clubs like Arsenal are playing in an uneven field.
That is the real shame. United are a different business model...but even we cannot compete against the Chelseas and Citys. Like I said...we may be in this only because the player has expressed a preference.
The FA needs to clean house if the English game is not going to go away from us....
Yeah I definitely see Chabon's point.
The main problem for me is that we just bought Kagawa who will likely provide competition for Welbeck as well. Without RVP, Welbeck still won't be likely to be a regular starter because Rooney will probably start with Kagawa behind him. If we buy RVP he now has to compete with Kagawa and RVP. Not to mention how could we fit RVP, Rooney, and Kagawa in the same starting line up. And like you said, he'll likely just be hurt half the time anyway.
It just doesn't really make a lot of sense and seems sort've pointless.
Is RVP still in contract? I am surprised Arse would even consider selling him to a rival. But it's difficult to pass up this opportunity since he has proven he can give us 25-30 goals a season. Sign him, sell Berbs, leave Welbeck and Hernandez to fight for the third spot. I think if RVP does sign, Welbeck and Hernandez will still get plenty of playing time.
Exactly. There is literally zero need for Van Persie, we are perfectly well stocked in attack and already have the best forwards and wingers in the league.
------Rooney------
Nani--Kagawa--Valencia
That what most people expect our line up to be going in to the season based on the 'predict our line up' thread in the united forum. Obviously it's fairly malleable and as Sarni says, Rooney can drop back to the deeper role, Welbeck can come in, Kagawa can play on the left like he does internationally etc.
Currently, Welbeck is being relegated from 2nd choice and a starter in the majority of games, to 3rd choice, so mostly a place on the bench. If Van Persie were to come, he'd be down to 4th choice, so when would he be getting games? Let alone Hernandez, who would be virtually finished at the club if Van Persie came in addition to Kagawa. He would be 5th choice to start behind Rooney, Van Persie, Kagawa and Welbeck, so restricted to the odd sub appearance and Carling cup game?
I remember reading some posts in the Kagawa or Hernandez thread saying that those two should link up extremely well, pointing out that Hernandez will thrive off the type of through balls that Shinji was consistently pulling off for Dortmund. But if we sign another striker it will be pretty rare for those two to play together, certainly not to the extent where they'll develop a real understanding, which is disappointing IMO. Hernandez had a poor year last season and looked like he needed a run of games to play his way back into form, but obviously the form of Welbeck kept him out. This season he is facing even more competition, even without factoring in Van Persie.
As for Welbeck, he came off the back of a terrific debut season as a regular starter. His finishing could do with improvement but that composure will develop with experience, and his all round game, touch, workrate etc, was top quality. Like Hernandez, he also needs games, which he isn't going to get if we sign Van Persie for £20million and £180,000 a week. You don't pay those figures to bring in one of the best strikers in the world and then leave him on the bench, so if he comes then like Rooney he will start the vast majority of games.
Kagawa might have to get shunted out wide as a result, as he can't play in the hole behind two strikers and leave just one midfielder against potentially three from the opposition. That'll mean two from Kagawa, Nani, Young will be on the bench, assuming Valencia keeps his place on the right, which again, just seems like a waste.
Completely unnecessary signing. We are already perfectly well stocked in attack, with young players with the potential to become world class. Signing him would stifle that development, and also lessen the role Kagawa has in the team. If we play two up top then he can't play in his Dortmund role behind the striker, so is being shunted wide or deep to accomodate a player we don't need.
That's not to mention the huge fee and wages which could be better spent in bringing a left back or central midfielder in. Seriously doubt it will happen anyway, so not too bothered.
unless we have a completely separate forward line when we have the midweek games. Then all the 4 strikers will get games.
Well they have two options, let him run his contract down, whereby he'd leave for nothing at the end of the season, or sell him for ~£20m now and possibly get a replacement (although with Giroud and Podolski I'm not sure they'd both). If Wenger really thinks the team could get fourth without RVP, they must sell and get £20m in the bank, but if he thinks they wouldn't get fourth with the team he has now (or a £20m addition), he might just be worth keeping.
Of course we all know what's going to happen.
Absolutely no need for Messi either, but if he comes available at a knock-down price, you wouldn't say no.
This place is funny sometimes. Whole swathes of the forum worried that we don't compete for and sign enough players, and whole swathes worried that we might sign too many players and not leave enough playing time for current players.
I'm not bothered on RVP either way. If we get him he'll improve us, if we don't, meh.
I'm not bothered on RVP either way. If we get him he'll improve us, if we don't, meh.
I agree on both accounts. Won't be happy til we sign Sneijder. It might still happen ok.Hmm worried is the wrong word, I just think it's stupid.
My view is fairly apathetic, somewhat similar to what you described. I think it's a shite idea, but if he were to come I wouldn't be arsed.
I wasn't having a go at you in particular, you're not the only one with the viewpoint that we shouldn't sign "player a" because it would prevent a current player getting enough game time. It's just something I've noticed in a few threads.
I'm not bothered about us signing any forward type player anyway, Bebe is back.
Damn straight.
He's going to be ours and it's going to be amazing.
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