Robin van Persie

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Cina said:
I would rather sell Berbatov and not get RVP.
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If i had to choose between RVP and Sahin, i would choose Sahin every time. We need him more in my view, but it is not looking like we are going to get that CM most of us crave.

In that circumstance, a player like RVP who can play up front on his own and still score goals, without being solely dependent on service has to be a plus point. Especially when you have a midfield who is not going to get too far forward. It also takes away some of the predictability of our wingers being our only real source of service too.

When your midfield isn't the quickest ast carrying the ball, it certainly helps to have a focal point up front from which to start the play from. RVP will give us that and more imo.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Re. Berbatov, I hope he gets to leave if that's what he wants. He's too good a player to sit on the bench or in the stands.

van Persie, fantastic player. But I don't want us to buy back the title. I want us to give the likes of Welbeck the chance to develop into what I think will be a superb striker.
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:lol:

Priceless...
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
So when he made the judgement of buying players like Keano, Ince and Carrick, that was down to luck? Or fullbacks like Irwin, Evra, the Silva twins and Heinze? Or goalies like Schmeichel, van der Sar, de Gea?
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That's not really a logical conclusion to make from my post now is it? He seems to be more confident buying strikers and defenders than cm's. With good reason in my opinion; compared to other positions he has made a few mistakes in this area.
 
apotheosis said:
Whatever you say about SAF's buys, the bottom line is he has bought only 1 midfielder who has cemented a place in our first team since Keano. That is 1 in 20 years. Carrick.

I don't think there is another position on the pitch which even comes close to matching that stat.
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You have to look at some of the factors behind that though:

- We've been lucky to have had midfielders who have played for United for a long time; Keano himself (12 years), Nicky Butt (12 years), Paul Scholes (15+ years). Meaning there was a period for about 10-12 years we had no pressing need to buy midfielders.

- We've had home-grown midfielders. Not only Scholes and Butt, but also other players used in midfield, such as Phil Neville, Ryan Giggs, O'Shea etc. If you compare that to strikers, then Welbeck is the first homegrown striker to have properly made his mark since Mark Hughes. I.e. we've had to go out and buy strikers.

- We've been unlucky with certain midfielders, first and foremost Hargreaves and Anderson.

How many right backs has he bought in the last 20 years who have cemented a place in the first team?
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
You have to look at some of the factors behind that though:

- We've been lucky to have had midfielders who have played for United for a long time; Keano himself (12 years), Nicky Butt (12 years), Paul Scholes (15+ years). Meaning there was a period for about 10-12 years we had no pressing need to buy midfielders.

- We've had home-grown midfielders. Not only Scholes and Butt, but also other players used in midfield, such as Phil Neville, Ryan Giggs, O'Shea etc. If you compare that to strikers, then Welbeck is the first homegrown striker to have properly made his mark since Mark Hughes. I.e. we've had to go out and buy strikers.

- We've been unlucky with certain midfielders, first and foremost Hargreaves and Anderson.

How many right backs has he bought in the last 20 years who have cemented a place in the first team?
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Al that is true, but it doesn't change the fact he has still bought a lot of midfielders that have not worked out during that time. You don't need me to list them for you im sure.

His RB record is not in question quite simply because we have not had to buy them. Re Midfielders, we have still bought them irrespective of what we already had, and for the most part they haven't worked out.
 
apotheosis said:
Al that is true, but it doesn't change the fact he has still bought a lot of midfielders that have not worked out during that time. You don't need me to list them for you im sure.

His RB record is not in question quite simply because we have not had to buy them. Re Midfielders, we have still bought them irrespective of what we already had, and for the most part they haven't worked out.
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He's only bought 11 midfielders during his reign at United, actually, and none between the signing of Keano (1993) and Veron (2001).

Of the ones that didn't work out, I think you can only blame Sir Alex' for 4 of them; Veron, Djemba, Kleberson and Miller. Injuries to Webb, Hargreaves and Anderson got nothing to do with Sir Alex and his judgement.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
He's only bought 11 midfielders during his reign at United, actually, and none between the signing of Keano (1993) and Veron (2001).

Of the ones that didn't work out, I think you can only blame Sir Alex' for 4 of them; Veron, Djemba, Kleberson and Miller. Injuries to Webb, Hargreaves and Anderson got nothing to do with Sir Alex and his judgement.
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hargreaves had injury concerns and Bayern were considering selling him for a cut price the year before. Anderson was coming back from an injury as well.
 
Commadus said:
hargreaves had injury concerns and Bayern were considering selling him for a cut price the year before. Anderson was coming back from an injury as well.
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Weren't we in for Hargreaves the year before we bought him? Why didn't they sell him then?

Sir Alex will have to trust his medical team when it comes to fitness and health of potential signings.
 
apotheosis said:
Whatever you say about SAF's buys, the bottom line is he has bought only 1 midfielder who has cemented a place in our first team since Keano. That is 1 in 20 years. Carrick.

I don't think there is another position on the pitch which even comes close to matching that stat.
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When you say it like that...

Dross:
Phelan, Webb, Veron, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Hargreaves.

Jury out, soon in:
Anderson.

Success:
Keane, Carrick.

Is midfield Fergie's weak spot?
 
Floyd said:
When you say it like that...

Dross:
Phelan, Webb, Veron, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Hargreaves.

Jury out, soon in:
Anderson.

Success:
Keane, Carrick.

Is midfield Fergie's weak spot?
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Phelan wasn't dross. No world beater, but did a job.

Webb and Hargreaves weren't dross, they were just injured.

You've left out Ince.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Phelan wasn't dross. No world beater, but did a job.

Webb and Hargreaves weren't dross, they were just injured.

You've left out Ince.
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Webb was unlucky yes, major injury in his third(?) match was it.

Hargreaves injury problems were well documented before we bought him, even moronic caftards were concerned.

Can't believe I left out Ince, magnificent player! Was gutted when he went to Inter.
 
Floyd said:
Webb was unlucky yes, major injury in his third(?) match was it.

Hargreaves injury problems were well documented before we bought him, even moronic caftards were concerned.

Can't believe I left out Ince, magnificent player! Was gutted when he went to Inter.
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If I remember right, Webb got injured playing for England, after 3-4 games for us. Never the same player again.

Dunno enough about Hargreaves injury-record before he joined us, but he played his fair share of games at Bayern. Difficult to believe that he would pass a medical if he was already fecked up.
 
The world is fecked up if Veron is counted under dross.
 
KM said:
The world is fecked up if Veron is counted under dross.
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Posters who describe Veron as dross don't have a clue what football is about. I read somewhere in this thread that some posters preferred Berbatov instead of RVP, last seasons best goalscorer who singlehanded carried his team to impressive third place. What's next..
 
7even said:
Posters who describe Veron as dross don't have a clue what football is about. I read somewhere in this thread that some posters preferred Berbatov instead of RVP, last seasons best goalscorer who singlehanded carried his team to impressive third place. What's next..
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Are you forgetting what Berbatov did in the year he was played as the most advanced striker?
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
He's only bought 11 midfielders during his reign at United, actually, and none between the signing of Keano (1993) and Veron (2001).

Of the ones that didn't work out, I think you can only blame Sir Alex' for 4 of them; Veron, Djemba, Kleberson and Miller. Injuries to Webb, Hargreaves and Anderson got nothing to do with Sir Alex and his judgement.
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grand total of about £7m..........based on performances they where worth a punt.

veron at the time was one of the best in the world, therefore you can see why fergie is selective and cautious in seeking value. there is not too mancy realistically achievebale signings who play centre mid and walk into out team so why bother signing the likes of sahin, mvilla etc etc which people are constantly banging on about.
 
7even said:
Posters who describe Veron as dross don't have a clue what football is about. I read somewhere in this thread that some posters preferred Berbatov instead of RVP, last seasons best goalscorer who singlehanded carried his team to impressive third place. What's next..
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He was for us...he was poor.

What he did before or after us, quite frankly, I couldn't give a feck/ Nobody is talking about what any players did before or after United.
 
Floyd said:
When you say it like that...

Dross:
Phelan, Webb, Veron, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Hargreaves.

Jury out, soon in:
Anderson.

Success:
Keane, Carrick.

Is midfield Fergie's weak spot?
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if he was available again at 26 years old for £17.5 million, everybody in the caf would be screaming that we signed him. for me, mvilla etc is a djemba djemba waiting to happen.
 
ben_foster said:
grand total of about £7m..........based on performances they where worth a punt.

veron at the time was one of the best in the world, therefore you can see why fergie is selective and cautious in seeking value. there is not too mancy realistically achievebale signings who play centre mid and walk into out team so why bother signing the likes of sahin, mvilla etc etc which people are constantly banging on about.
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Sure, agree with all of that
 
This makes no sense whatsoever. We've got 3 strikers already and Kagawa who will feature as a deep lying forward who can score goals.
 
ben_foster said:
grand total of about £7m..........based on performances they where worth a punt.

veron at the time was one of the best in the world, therefore you can see why fergie is selective and cautious in seeking value. there is not too mancy realistically achievebale signings who play centre mid and walk into out team so why bother signing the likes of sahin, mvilla etc etc which people are constantly banging on about.
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Because Sahin is one of those realistically achievable signings who plays centre midfield and would walk into our team. He can do both jobs, a deep lying playmaker who can screen a defence like Carrick, or as a playmaker like Scholes. Beleive me as long as there is no long standing concerns over his fitness, this guy is the most ideal target we could go for imo. He would cover both of our current first choice midfielders, and has the passing range to take over from Scholes or Carrick eventually. He is not even 25 till september.

Considering he would not cost the earth compared to prices touted for the likes of Moutinho and Modric, Sahin would be an absolute snip at anything under £20m.
 
Stretch said:
This makes no sense whatsoever. We've got 3 strikers already and Kagawa who will feature as a deep lying forward who can score goals.
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If we are after him, I am guessibg it is a case of Sir Alex thinking it is too good an opportunity to miss.
 
apotheosis said:
Because Sahin is one of those realistically achievable signings who plays centre midfield and would walk into our team. He can do both jobs, a deep lying playmaker who can screen a defence like Carrick, or as a playmaker like Scholes. Beleive me as long as there is no long standing concerns over his fitness, this guy is the most ideal target we could go for imo. He would cover both of our current first choice midfielders, and has the passing range to take over from Scholes or Carrick eventually. He is not even 25 till september.

Considering he would not cost the earth compared to prices touted for the likes of Moutinho and Modric, Sahin would be an absolute snip at anything under £20m.
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I've seen this in the Sahin thread as well. You say this based on what exactly? He'd get games and would be a welcome addition IMO but that's overstating it a tad.
 
Stretch said:
This makes no sense whatsoever. We've got 3 strikers already and Kagawa who will feature as a deep lying forward who can score goals.
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If we are not going to improve the midfield, then surely we need an option to be able to bypass the midfield by having a striker who can hold the ball up and is very effective at playing up front on his own. RVP is perfect for that.

He will undoubtedly help our ability to play different systems, especially in Europe. I can understand people not wanting RVP more than a midfielder, but considering it doesn't look like we are going to buy one, then the best we can hope for is top quality players coming in, that may help to alleviate any concerns we have in midfield, by offering different options in how we play.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
If we are after him, I am guessibg it is a case of Sir Alex thinking it is too good an opportunity to miss.
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I guess but who's playing and who's on benching? It's an important season for Hernandez as we'd hope he gets over his sophomore blues and Welbeck's development shouldn't be stifled IMO. I don't know. Let's see what transpires. I'm obviously assuming Berbatov will be off.
 
Bollocks story guys. No way we'd be in for RVP, he's a great player yes and he's improve our first team. But there's no way that Ferguson would neglect the flaws in our current squad. LB/CM have to take priority.
 
Stretch said:
I guess but who's playing and who's on benching? It's an important season for Hernandez as we'd hope he gets over his sophomore blues and Welbeck's development shouldn't be stifled IMO. I don't know. Let's see what transpires. I'm obviously assuming Berbatov will be off.
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Hernandez would suffer most if we sign van Persie.
 
ben_foster said:
grand total of about £7m..........based on performances they where worth a punt.

veron at the time was one of the best in the world, therefore you can see why fergie is selective and cautious in seeking value. there is not too mancy realistically achievebale signings who play centre mid and walk into out team so why bother signing the likes of sahin, mvilla etc etc which people are constantly banging on about.
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I'm one of those who was sad to see Veron leave - later to know that he played over half a season pretty much injured for us and it turned out to carry through to his Chelsea days. But SAF being cautious now is not comparable to back then, as we didn't have a midfield to fix then. We had all the pieces. Giggs-Scholes-Keane-Beckham. That's why Veron suffered. Scholes sulked a bit about playing wide left if I remember correctly and when we sold Becks, Veron would have been the obvious set-piece taker to replace him and get a better foothold in the team. But we sold him. Maybe knowing then that having had him play through injury he was a bit mangled.

If we were to make a Veron signing now, that player would most likely walk into our team and get all the chances to adapt and impress.
 
Stretch said:
I've seen this in the Sahin thread as well. You say this based on what exactly? He'd get games and would be a welcome addition IMO but that's overstating it a tad.
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Based on the fact that Scholes is 38 and Sahin would more than likely take his position rather than Carricks.

TBH Stretch i was more repeating what Gambit suggested in a jovial manner, rather than seriously suggesting he would walk straight in. But a fit Sahin would surely feature more than Scholes in Europe at least.

TC and Ando have potential but their injuries have to be a concern still. Atm we have only Carrick and Scholes who can be regularly relied upon. Sahin has proven himself consistent in the past, and allowing for the fact he would recover from his injury, i see no other reason to think he would not add significantly to the consistency of our midfield too.
 
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