Robin van Persie

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Pogue Mahone said:
Agreed.

Also worth bearing in mind that Fergie will probably only play with one striker in 10 or 15 games out of the 50+ matches we could potentially play next season.

If you look back at the last few seasons he's played a midfield three in a very select minority of games but the one thing they've generally had in common is that we've been hard to break down but often looked a bit toothless and unlikely to score. I'm sure Kagawa was signed with this in mind but the Hannover game confirmed that Fergie is also willing to consider him as an option in games where we start with two strikers (i.e. the vast majority of fixtures)

All of which means (bringing us neatly back on-topic!) the signing of Kagawa doesn't mean the opportunities for our strikers will be drastically reduced and loads of chances for the likes of Hernandez and Welbeck to get games even if we do sign Van Persie.
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But if Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on to start in midfield, and we do play the majority of our games with 2 strikers, what happens to Anderson and Cleverley exactly?

That's the problem here, one of the main reasons people want to see Kagawa in midfield is because it would mean we can still play 2 strikers up front and give Welbeck and co. plenty of game time, yet that then means giving 2 other talented young players a lot less game time. In which case, why not just play Kagawa in his best position?

Signing RVP would only add to this issue, no matter how you look at it, it involves substantially less game time for players like Welbeck, Cleverley etc. Something which the signing of Kagawa has already guaranteed.
 
Cina said:
But if Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on to start in midfield, and we do play the majority of our games with 2 strikers, what happens to Anderson and Cleverley exactly?

That's the problem here, one of the main reasons people want to see Kagawa in midfield is because it would mean we can still play 2 strikers up front and give Welbeck and co. plenty of game time, yet that then means giving 2 other talented young players a lot less game time. In which case, why not just play Kagawa in his best position?

Signing RVP would only add to this issue, no matter how you look at it, it involves substantially less game time for players like Welbeck, Cleverley etc. Something which the signing of Kagawa has already guaranteed.
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I'm a bit confused now. Are you - of all people - really saying we've got too many options in central midfield?!

There's me thinking that Cleverley and Anderson were incompetent permacrocks who shouldn't even be part of Fergie's p[lans for the season ahead. Now you're worried about them not getting enough games?
 
Cina said:
But if Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on to start in midfield, and we do play the majority of our games with 2 strikers, what happens to Anderson and Cleverley exactly?
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They fight it out with the other 2 and get rotated of course. It's called competition and considering the whinging we have all done regarding the midfield, surely that's a good thing no :confused:

Carrick and Kagawa are just nailed on for the tough games where we play 3 in midfield against teams that play also 3 in there, the likes of Man City. Kagawa and Carrick aren't nailed on in a 4-4-2 by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If a fan thinks that the extra 5m spent on signing player a instantly deducts the same amount from what we're willing to pay for player b then he's an idiot. Or spends too much time playing FM.
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It's the people who think that there's an unlimited budget for transfers and wages and overpaying 'doesn't matter' that are the idiots.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm a bit confused now. Are you - of all people - really saying we've got too many options in central midfield?!
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No, I'm not. I'm merely alluding to the fact that saying using Kagawa in midfield will be a reason not to limit our young strikers game time, yet in theory it would limit our young midfielders who would play in that position too. What exactly is the difference and how would signing RVP not make it even worse?

And for the record, it's not THAT position I've wanted us to get a midfielder for, it's Carrick's position, because we have nobody other than him. Signing a midfielder with similar responsibilities to him would just means less games for Scholes (38), Giggs (39) and to a lesser extent Carrick (31). I'm ok with that.
 
peterstorey said:
It's the people who think that there's an unlimited budget for transfers and wages and overpaying 'doesn't matter' that are the idiots.
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Bollocks. Nobody is claiming we have an unlimited budget but the assumption that Fergie has a discrete pot of cash for transfers which is set in stone is ridiculous. He'll target the players he wants to sign and pay what he thinks is a fair fee for them. If this ends up being a little more than he had anticipated but he still thinks the player is worth the money then the funds will be made available. This has little or no impact on what he deems an appropriate transfer fee for other targets.
 
Cina said:
No, I'm not. I'm merely alluding to the fact that saying using Kagawa in midfield will be a reason not to limit our young strikers game time, yet in theory it would limit our young midfielders who would play in that position too. What exactly is the difference and how would signing RVP not make it even worse?

And for the record, it's not THAT position I've wanted us to get a midfielder for, it's Carrick's position, because we have nobody other than him. Signing a midfielder with similar responsibilities to him would just means less games for Scholes (38), Giggs (39) and to a lesser extent Carrick (31). I'm ok with that.
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The difference is we're (supposedly) light in midfield yet well stocked up front. Isn't that obvious?

I'm sure nobody would be more pleased than Fergie if he finds himself unable to give Giggs and Scholes more than a handful of games next season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bollocks. Nobody is claiming we have an unlimited budget but the assumption that Fergie has a discrete pot of cash for transfers which is set in stone is ridiculous. He'll target the players he wants to sign and pay what he thinks is a fair fee for them. If this ends up being a little more than he had anticipated but he still thinks the player is worth the money then the funds will be made available. This has little or no impact on what he deems an appropriate transfer fee for other targets.
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If you pay £50M+ in wages and fee for van Persie it has a significant impact on your football budget for the next 3 years.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bollocks. Nobody is claiming we have an unlimited budget but the assumption that Fergie has a discrete pot of cash for transfers which is set in stone is ridiculous. He'll target the players he wants to sign and pay what he thinks is a fair fee for them. If this ends up being a little more than he had anticipated but he still thinks the player is worth the money then the funds will be made available. This has little or no impact on what he deems an appropriate transfer fee for other targets.
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Agree.
 
Anybody know what sort of wage Berbatov is on?

And in terms of our wage budget I imagine Ashley Young doesn't help us. Wasn't he reported to be on over 100k? Quite a lot for someone who is now a squad player (and may have been even further down the pecking order had we signed Hazard or Lucas.)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The difference is we're (supposedly) light in midfield yet well stocked up front. Isn't that obvious?

I'm sure nobody would be more pleased than Fergie if he finds himself unable to give Giggs and Scholes more than a handful of games next season.
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But we aren't light where Kagawa would be playing, we're light where Carrick plays, surely you see that? They're very differing roles. Cleverley, Anderson, Scholes, Giggs, maybe even Powell, they can all play that role. Only Jones (heaven forbid) can do anything close to what Carrick does.

My whole argument was that getting RVP is needless, because Kagawa was the missing link in our attack, we're fine there now. It means we can effectively play a 3 man midfield in big games now, and have a player who can play where Rooney does if he's injured, as well as play alongside our strikers. Why convert him to a midfielder just so we can buy a 29 year old striker? It's crazy. A front 4 of Rooney, Welbeck, Kagawa and Hernandez is more than adequate.
 
thegregster said:
Bebatov,Scholes,Giggs leaving/retiring will reduce the bill.
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Giggs and Scholes won't retire for another two years at least and Berbatov might not leave this Summer at all if we don't find a buyer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bollocks. Nobody is claiming we have an unlimited budget but the assumption that Fergie has a discrete pot of cash for transfers which is set in stone is ridiculous. He'll target the players he wants to sign and pay what he thinks is a fair fee for them. If this ends up being a little more than he had anticipated but he still thinks the player is worth the money then the funds will be made available. This has little or no impact on what he deems an appropriate transfer fee for other targets.
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Absolutely spot on. I find it bizarre that people genuinely think there's an exact figure given to Fergie each year in terms of transfer funds. Whether its fuelled by football manager or tabloids I don't know, but it's a pretty widely held view.
 
Cina said:
A front 4 of Rooney, Welbeck, Kagawa and Hernandez is more than adequate.
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is it?

I think you're possibly slightly over-rating Welbeck and Hernandez (as good as they both are) when you start comparing that line-up to the team that beat us to the title last season:

Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, Silva, Dzeko.

Sticking RVP in there makes it a whole new ball game, so many options.
 
I'm always right said:
is it?

I think you slightly over-rating Welbeck and Hernandez there when you start comparing that line-up to the team that beat us to the title last season:

Tevez, Aguero, Balotelli, Silva, Dzeko.

Sticking RVP in there makes it a whole new ball game, so many options.
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Well if you're going by those 5 players and the positions they play in, we could name:

Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Welbeck, Kagawa.

You don't think that matches up?

(Also, naming Dzeko :lol: )
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Bollocks. Nobody is claiming we have an unlimited budget but the assumption that Fergie has a discrete pot of cash for transfers which is set in stone is ridiculous. He'll target the players he wants to sign and pay what he thinks is a fair fee for them. If this ends up being a little more than he had anticipated but he still thinks the player is worth the money then the funds will be made available. This has little or no impact on what he deems an appropriate transfer fee for other targets.
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Well, I can't claim to know what the situation is now, but in the past that's exactly how United operated.
 
Cina said:
Well if you're going by those 5 players and the positions they play in, we could name:

Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Welbeck, Kagawa.

You don't think that matches up?

(Also, naming Dzeko :lol: )
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Dzeko is quality mate. He's just with the wrong club.
 
Cina said:
Well if you're going by those 5 players and the positions they play in, we could name:

Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Welbeck, Kagawa.

You don't think that matches up?

(Also, naming Dzeko :lol: )
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Dzeko showed his worth to be fair, he's a good player.

I actually left out Nasri there too. Fact is, I don't think we match up right now up top, not quite. RVP would shift the balance.
 
I think that if we sign RVP then the only one to be concerned about is Hernandez. Welbeck will play almost as many games as Rooney and RVP I think, albeit many less important ones. I wouldn't even be surprised if we saw all 3 on the pitch together at times, with either of the 3 out of position.

Hernandez may have to have a more bit part role for a couple of years, and it's whether he would be happy with that is the question. He will still get games however. Michael Owen was getting games FFS, and would probably have gotten a lot more on top if he wasn't a write off for most of the season.
 
Cina said:
But if Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on to start in midfield, and we do play the majority of our games with 2 strikers, what happens to Anderson and Cleverley exactly?

That's the problem here, one of the main reasons people want to see Kagawa in midfield is because it would mean we can still play 2 strikers up front and give Welbeck and co. plenty of game time, yet that then means giving 2 other talented young players a lot less game time. In which case, why not just play Kagawa in his best position?

Signing RVP would only add to this issue, no matter how you look at it, it involves substantially less game time for players like Welbeck, Cleverley etc. Something which the signing of Kagawa has already guaranteed.
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if players are good enough they play. simple as. if welbeck performs to a level many think he is capable then he'l play at the expense of somebody who isnt performing. fergie has shown how ruthless he is. if RVP and welbeck blow everybody away....they'll play and rooney wont. simple as.

if kagawa and carrick are a dream partnership then anderson and cleverley will have to fight for there place. simple.

its manchester united we are talking about here. if the young lads are good enough then great. if they arent or better players (RVP and Kagawa) become available then we have to sign them to improve.

im sick of hearing how we should sit about waiting for welbeck, larnell cole, keane's etc to come through. they will when there good enough and if they arent good enough then they wont.

next season is HUGE. we dont have the time to wiat 4 years for welbeck to become the finished article. we need finished articles now and we NEED to win the league back. once we start being the second side and the poor neighbors our pull goes.
 
I'm always right said:
Dzeko showed his worth to be fair, he's a good player.

I actually left out Nasri there too. Fact is, I don't think we match up right now up top, not quite. RVP would shift the balance.
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And I left out Young.

I'm sorry but Nani - Rooney - Shinji - Valencia, that's a match for any team in Europe. It's what we have behind them that's the problem, because we have nobody who can match up to Yaya (who does?).
 
ben_foster said:
next season is HUGE. we dont have the time to wiat 4 years for welbeck to become the finished article. we need finished articles now and we NEED to win the league back. once we start being the second side and the poor neighbors our pull goes.
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Agreed. If we have another trophyless season and City/Chelsea win big again we will struggle with transfers more so than we do now. We are struggling to remain the most attractive club in the league to players as it, albeit mainly for the wrong (financial) reasons.

Add to that, our best players will start to have their heads turned, and our promising youngsters may want to feck off elsewhere anyway.
 
D ‏@AFCAMDEN
I've defended RVP all summer and would be the happiest man alive if he stayed. However, I've been informed he's likely to join United



This guy knows his stuff, so RvP's officially a cnut imo.
 
John_Jensen said:
D ‏@AFCAMDEN
I've defended RVP all summer and would be the happiest man alive if he stayed. However, I've been informed he's likely to join United



This guy knows his stuff, so RvP's officially a cnut imo.
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Well... I'm sold.

Seriously though, who is he?
 
RVP isnt still at Arsenal IMO. Its 99% certain. The only question is whether its city or United.
 
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