Robin van Persie

Status
Not open for further replies.
Eyepopper said:
Well, lets look at it...

Carrick, Anderson, Cleverly, Scholes, Giggs, vying for 2 positions, at a push we also have Jones who could be called on, and thats not considering Powell, because he can't really be expected to make an impact in his first year at this level, Kagawa whose better suited to playing a more advanced role, and Fletcher because we can't be sure when he'll be back.

I'd guess that Fergie might think we're pretty well stocked.

If you look at the problems we've had in the middle over the last couple of years, its been down to a lack of creativity, an inability to link up play between mid field and the forwards through the middle. Kagawa will address that (hopefully), and the return of Cleverly will also help, hes has a decent eye for a pass.

The question will be keeping everyone fit. Lets not play Cleverly against Bolton this year eh?
Click to expand...

We had to two problems- one (lack of creativity) was IMO properly addressed with Kagawa's arrival.

But we also had problems when other teams decided to have a go at us. We crumbled under pressure and I don't think it will change this year.
 
Eyepopper said:
Well, lets look at it...

Carrick, Anderson, Cleverly, Scholes, Giggs, vying for 2 positions, at a push we also have Jones who could be called on, and thats not considering Powell, because he can't really be expected to make an impact in his first year at this level, Kagawa whose better suited to playing a more advanced role, and Fletcher because we can't be sure when he'll be back.

I'd guess that Fergie might think we're pretty well stocked.

If you look at the problems we've had in the middle over the last couple of years, its been down to a lack of creativity, an inability to link up play between mid field and the forwards through the middle. Kagawa will address that (hopefully), and the return of Cleverly will also help, hes has a decent eye for a pass.

The question will be keeping everyone fit. Lets not play Cleverly against Bolton this year eh?
Click to expand...


That is the only problem IMO, fitness. Will everyone remain fit? If they do then I believe we have more than enough in midfield. I honestly think that Cleverley is a special talent and if we can get a full season out of him then come the end of the season he'll be an integral part of our team. I really think that is why Fergie isn't rushing into buying anyone atm, as he believes in Anderson and Cleverley so much, and why not? They have both been excellent on tour, lets hope they can carry this on.
 
I'm extremely happy with what we've got this transfer window. I think players like Kagawa will make a huge difference

I'm also extremely interested in seeing Powell's progression.
 
Baby Faced Assassin said:
As soon as a United bid for RvP is accepted, City will step in. Mark my words!
Click to expand...

And? What because City suddenly step in that means he goes to them? They have already had a bid turned down if I'm not mistaken? But I think RvP has said he doesn't want to play for that shite, so they can step in as much as they want.
 
Eyepopper said:
Well, lets look at it...

Carrick, Anderson, Cleverly, Scholes, Giggs, vying for 2 positions, at a push we also have Jones who could be called on, and thats not considering Powell, because he can't really be expected to make an impact in his first year at this level, Kagawa whose better suited to playing a more advanced role, and Fletcher because we can't be sure when he'll be back.

I'd guess that Fergie might think we're pretty well stocked.

If you look at the problems we've had in the middle over the last couple of years, its been down to a lack of creativity, an inability to link up play between mid field and the forwards through the middle. Kagawa will address that (hopefully), and the return of Cleverly will also help, hes has a decent eye for a pass.

The question will be keeping everyone fit. Lets not play Cleverly against Bolton this year eh?
Click to expand...

Not really. Anderson, Cleverley, Scholes and Giggs are pretty much all going for the same position, all of whom are either on crutches due to their age or their injury record. We have nobody who can do the job Carrick does even remotely as effectively.

It showed against Hannover that Kagawa should be used at the spearhead of a midfield 3, not in a midfield 2 (in which case the aforementioned players would get even less games).

Basically, RVP isn't a solution, it's a complete luxury. I think we've already signed the missing aspect of our attack in Kagawa and I don't really understand why the hell SAF wants to spend 20m+ on a 29 year old with massive wages who we do not in any way need, especially considering how short stocked we are in midfield and left back. It's fecking baffling.
 
devilish said:
I think at 29\30m he'll be ours. We spent 7m for Bebe
Click to expand...

But why is that much better value? LLorente is only 18 months younger than Van Persie, and not as good.

£30m for a player 6 months away from his 28th birthday, and £22m for a player just turned 29 seem much of a muchness financially. And RVP is higher quality and premiership proven.
 
Cina said:
Not really. Anderson, Cleverley, Scholes and Giggs are pretty much all going for the same position, all of whom are either on crutches due to their age or their injury record. We have nobody who can do the job Carrick does even remotely as effectively.

It showed against Hannover that Kagawa should be used at the spearhead of a midfield 3, not in a midfield 2 (in which case the aforementioned players would get even less games).

Basically, RVP isn't a solution, it's a complete luxury. I think we've already signed the missing aspect of our attack in Kagawa and I don't really understand why the hell SAF wants to spend 20m+ on a 29 year old with massive wages who we do not in any way need, especially considering how short stocked we are in midfield and left back. It's fecking baffling.
Click to expand...

I dont think anyone's suggesting that signing RvP is the answer to the midfield or LB questions.

I agree that attack isn't our most pressure area to be addressed, but I think we're going for him simply because he's such a good player and available, Fergies inner muppet is getting the better of him, that said, leaving the LB and CM issue aside, I dont think theres much doubt RvP and Rooney would do well together, as for the other strikers, well its up to them to respond and challenge for a starting spot, in that sense more competition for a spot is a good thing.
 
Cina said:
Not really. Anderson, Cleverley, Scholes and Giggs are pretty much all going for the same position, all of whom are either on crutches due to their age or their injury record. We have nobody who can do the job Carrick does even remotely as effectively.

It showed against Hannover that Kagawa should be used at the spearhead of a midfield 3, not in a midfield 2 (in which case the aforementioned players would get even less games).

Basically, RVP isn't a solution, it's a complete luxury. I think we've already signed the missing aspect of our attack in Kagawa and I don't really understand why the hell SAF wants to spend 20m+ on a 29 year old with massive wages who we do not in any way need, especially considering how short stocked we are in midfield and left back. It's fecking baffling.
Click to expand...

Nope. It showed that actually Kagawa can play - and play well - with just one partner in midfield. Something which a lot of people poured scorn on when it was first suggested.
 
Oh well, at least when you buy a mercenary at the age of 29, you know he won't be able to do the dirty on you later down the line, unlike Mr Pogba et al.
 
Judge Red said:
Oh well, at least when you buy a mercenary at the age of 29, you know he won't be able to do the dirty on you later down the line, unlike Mr Pogba et al.
Click to expand...

How is Van Persie a mercenary? Or does that just get thrown at anyone who moves clubs now?
 
Simple rule of thumb. Move to City or Chelsea = mercenary, move to anywhere else = in it for the love of it....no? Conclusion: not a mercenary
 
Cina said:
Not really. Anderson, Cleverley, Scholes and Giggs are pretty much all going for the same position, all of whom are either on crutches due to their age or their injury record. We have nobody who can do the job Carrick does even remotely as effectively.

It showed against Hannover that Kagawa should be used at the spearhead of a midfield 3, not in a midfield 2 (in which case the aforementioned players would get even less games).

Basically, RVP isn't a solution, it's a complete luxury. I think we've already signed the missing aspect of our attack in Kagawa and I don't really understand why the hell SAF wants to spend 20m+ on a 29 year old with massive wages who we do not in any way need, especially considering how short stocked we are in midfield and left back. It's fecking baffling.
Click to expand...

This! We dont have an unlimited budget. Money ought to be spend in the middle of the park. Ball winner.
 
KanieKaned said:
You ought to be ashamed of yourself, get a bottle of gin have a good cry and let Glen Hansard know of your distaste.
Click to expand...

:angel:

Hopefully something will move on this deal today. At least then I've only spent 1 days in a thread some have spent all summer in
 
londonredmaniac said:
Because he did it once in a pre season game??

I don't mean to suggest he can't do it like...
Click to expand...

It showed that a) fergie is considering him for that role and b) he is capable of playing it. Both of which are quite significant bits of information.

Anyway, my main point is that it's very strange that people are using this same game as evidence that he's not an option as a central midfielder.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It showed that a) fergie is considering him for that role and b) he is capable of playing it. Both of which are quite significant bits of information.

Anyway, my main point is that it's very strange that people are using this same game as evidence that he's not an option as a central midfielder.
Click to expand...

I guess people (me included) are wanting him to be play in his most natural position, the position he's played which made us go out and buy him.

Yes, he showed he's good enough to play in a midfield 2, and I'm happy for him to be used there throughout the season but if by signing Van Persie that limits Kagawa chances in his natural role then I really don't want Van Persie - as good as he is.
 
devilish said:
In my opinion, if a kid is good enough then he'll make it. Darren Fletcher (whose no Paul Scholes) was able to shape a great career with us despite having to compete with new boys Hargreaves, Ando and Carrick. Welbeck was capable of sending a 30m signing on the bench for good.

Now my argument is pretty simple. If I had to choose between two proven players one of which is 29 yr old injury prone talent and the other is 2-4 yrs younger then Ill choose the latter. RVP was value when he was rated 10-15m but at 22m we can aim for higher.

And lets stop with this 'nearly signing' Lucas. We're sounding like Spurs. We need to acknowledge that many players will not stop negotiations with other clubs just because Man Utd had stepped in. There are richer clubs out there preying on common targets. Therefore our transfer tactic must be low profile and swift so that we avoid having to compete with the likes of Real and PSG.
Click to expand...

First the way i look at it is very simple. That being, you can't always get a bargain. Sir Alex looks like he's decided RVP is the one to go for. End of story. This isn't our choice or our decision.

Lucas cost how much? Sao Paulo were asking for crazy money, hence the negotiations....No team in Europe met their valuation, apart from PSG..
 
thegregster said:
Kompany has come out heaping praise on him. City still are desperate to sign him. Lets hope that its true that he doesnt want to join them. Mancini is desperate to get rid of Adebayor to free up space for him.

http://www.espnstar.com/football/pr...38690/Mancini:-No-place-for-Adebayor-at-City/
Click to expand...

I saw that headline this morning. I didn't read the article though. I currently have no tolerance for the word "project"

I hope City can't offload Adebayor, I like the possibility that their accumulation of players could start to bite them on the arse.
 
Striker10 said:
First the way i look at it is very simple. That being, you can't always get a bargain. Sir Alex looks like he's decided RVP is the one to go for. End of story. This isn't our choice or our decision.

Lucas cost how much? Sao Paulo were asking for crazy money, hence the negotiations....No team in Europe met their valuation, apart from PSG..
Click to expand...

Well I only hope that our lets say 'urge' to prove that we can still sign marquee signing will not cloud our judgement. 22m for an injury prone 29 year old is big money indeed.

There were four clubs for Moura. Chelsea who pulled the plug out after signing Hazard, Inter (whose passing from a fierce financial restructuring program), United and PSG. We must acknowledge that we're not a dominant force in the transfer market. Very few players will refuse big bucks just to sign for United and we're not the kind to offer ridiculous amounts of money for them. Therefore we must compensate by acting swiftly and have multiple targets in mind. With United's and Inter's name being linked with Moura it was only a matter of time before some filthy rich club would step in and make the killing.
 
Trigg said:
I guess people (me included) are wanting him to be play in his most natural position, the position he's played which made us go out and buy him.

Yes, he showed he's good enough to play in a midfield 2, and I'm happy for him to be used there throughout the season but if by signing Van Persie that limits Kagawa chances in his natural role then I really don't want Van Persie - as good as he is.
Click to expand...

At United, virtually every single player gets played in multiple positions - it's about submitting yourself to the needs of the team. I can see Kagawa operating in a two man midfield against weaker opponents, and then being played as the most advanced man in a trio against tougher sides.
 
bill.s.preston said:
I saw that headline this morning. I didn't read the article though. I currently have no tolerance for the word "project"

I hope City can't offload Adebayor, I like the possibility that their accumulation of players could start to bite them on the arse.
Click to expand...

Not forgetting Guidetti & Santa Cruz are still there.
 
Eyepopper said:
I dont think anyone's suggesting that signing RvP is the answer to the midfield or LB questions.

I agree that attack isn't our most pressure area to be addressed, but I think we're going for him simply because he's such a good player and available, Fergies inner muppet is getting the better of him, that said, leaving the LB and CM issue aside, I dont think theres much doubt RvP and Rooney would do well together, as for the other strikers, well its up to them to respond and challenge for a starting spot, in that sense more competition for a spot is a good thing.
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting they would though pops. They're too good not to, I just don't really see the point. Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernadnez, Nani, Valencia, Young. How much more do we need in our attack? It's never been a problem, we scored a shitload last season and will score even more with Shinji here. I really just don't see the need for it, it's completely against our usual policy.

Pogue Mahone said:
Nope. It showed that actually Kagawa can play - and play well - with just one partner in midfield. Something which a lot of people poured scorn on when it was first suggested.
Click to expand...

He can play in a midfield 2, but he's still far better behind the striker. That's still what the majority said, after the game.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nope. It showed that actually Kagawa can play - and play well - with just one partner in midfield. Something which a lot of people poured scorn on when it was first suggested.
Click to expand...

Think most of our midfielders can play in a midfield 2. The worry is that they will have to do so. It was quite clear at times last season we needed 3 in there, and that won't change.

I would still be quite happy playing 4-4-2 at OT in some games, but i think it's also fairly obvious we need to be able to play a 3 man mid with more effectiveness and attacking potency than we managed last year.
 
apotheosis said:
I would still be quite happy playing 4-4-2 at OT in some games, but i think it's also fairly obvious we need to be able to play a 3 man mid with more effectiveness and attacking potency than we managed last year.
Click to expand...

It's also fairly obvious that SAF has bought Kagawa to enable that to happen, it's also the reason he was after Nasri and possibly Sneijder too.

Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on as 2 places in that 3. Cleverley, Scholes, Anderson, Powell and others will make up the third spot. Personally I think that sounds like more than enough, as is the same for every club, we just need to hope that at least 1 of Ando and Cleverley can stay injury-free, or at least time their injuries as well as the wingers did last year :D
 
I'm always right said:
It's also fairly obvious that SAF has bought Kagawa to enable that to happen, it's also the reason he was after Nasri and possibly Sneijder too.

Kagawa and Carrick are nailed on as 2 places in that 3. Cleverley, Scholes, Anderson, Powell and others will make up the third spot. Personally I think that sounds like more than enough, as is the same for every club, we just need to hope that at least 1 of Ando and Cleverley can stay injury-free, or at least time their injuries as well as the wingers did last year :D
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Also worth bearing in mind that Fergie will probably only play with one striker in 10 or 15 games out of the 50+ matches we could potentially play next season.

If you look back at the last few seasons he's played a midfield three in a very select minority of games but the one thing they've generally had in common is that we've been hard to break down but often looked a bit toothless and unlikely to score. I'm sure Kagawa was signed with this in mind but the Hannover game confirmed that Fergie is also willing to consider him as an option in games where we start with two strikers (i.e. the vast majority of fixtures)

All of which means (bringing us neatly back on-topic!) the signing of Kagawa doesn't mean the opportunities for our strikers will be drastically reduced and loads of chances for the likes of Hernandez and Welbeck to get games even if we do sign Van Persie.
 
Bang on Pogue.

And in the games where we play the 3 in midfield, RVP would just enable a shed load of options ahead of that, including playing with Welbeck, RVP or Rooney in wide roles.... occasionally all 3 might play in a 4-3-3.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.