That's just awful.
Robin van Persie
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That's just awful.
Veryyyyy idiotic.
My take on this for what it's worth (very little):
United want him and are prepared to get him for a bargain. £15m? £20m?
Juve came in and offered too little £10m? £12m? In the hope that Arsenal would bite there hand off to see him leave the Premier League and not end up at a rival. They are either playing the waiting game and hoping they are offered him for that price or £15m or so. Or they have been told by his agent he is not interested in Italy and have dropped interest.
Mancini has to offload at least one striker before he can make a proper offer for him and that is proving difficult. How do you shift a player on big wages that doesn't want to take a step down?
Arsenal are praying for the likes of Real or Barca to step in. A club that could afford a fee and offer an attractive route out of the EPL for him.
I think Arsenal are going to begrudgingly sell to us in the end, the money men won't let him leave for free and I think he genuinely wants to come to us. He's handed a transfer request in which will have forfeited him a large sum so it doesn't seem to be about the money.
United want him and are prepared to get him for a bargain. £15m? £20m?
Juve came in and offered too little £10m? £12m? In the hope that Arsenal would bite there hand off to see him leave the Premier League and not end up at a rival. They are either playing the waiting game and hoping they are offered him for that price or £15m or so. Or they have been told by his agent he is not interested in Italy and have dropped interest.
Mancini has to offload at least one striker before he can make a proper offer for him and that is proving difficult. How do you shift a player on big wages that doesn't want to take a step down?
Arsenal are praying for the likes of Real or Barca to step in. A club that could afford a fee and offer an attractive route out of the EPL for him.
I think Arsenal are going to begrudgingly sell to us in the end, the money men won't let him leave for free and I think he genuinely wants to come to us. He's handed a transfer request in which will have forfeited him a large sum so it doesn't seem to be about the money.
The most we've reportedly offered is £10m, not sure where you're getting those figures.
--------Rooney--Hernandez
Nani------------------Welbeck
------Carrick---Kagawa
Evra---Vidic---Rio------Valencia
------------De Gea
Is your possible line up any better than our probable one ???
An opening offer of £10m. Excuse me for jumping the gun and guessing that we would probably go up to £15m or £20m. Hence the ?'s
All depends on Van Persie himself for me. If he's brave enough to engage in a game of brinkmanship with Arsenal and hold out for a move to us, I believe we will get him at the end.
He could easily get nervous towards the end though and instruct his agent to look around for other clubs. I'm sure he'll be able to find someone else. Whoever else comes in will also be able to sign him at a lower price than us since Arsenal think we're the devil.
Our opening offer was reported at £7m actually.
Aye, depends on his professionalism but people forget it also depends on Arsenals.
Him saying "my heart isn't in it, I won't be the same player for you", is that any worse than Arsenal saying "doesn't matter, we've already signed your replacement so if you we don't mind if you are sitting on the bench"
At the end of the day he only has to wait just over 4 months and he can sign with who he likes and Arsenal can do nothing about it. He holds all the cards.
"You can get nothing and pay me for a year and I will get about half my transfer fee as a signing on fee or you can do the honourable thing and let me go this year and get some money yourself"
It really isn't a hard choice for Arsenal.
Him saying "my heart isn't in it, I won't be the same player for you", is that any worse than Arsenal saying "doesn't matter, we've already signed your replacement so if you we don't mind if you are sitting on the bench"
At the end of the day he only has to wait just over 4 months and he can sign with who he likes and Arsenal can do nothing about it. He holds all the cards.
"You can get nothing and pay me for a year and I will get about half my transfer fee as a signing on fee or you can do the honourable thing and let me go this year and get some money yourself"
It really isn't a hard choice for Arsenal.
Ok. £7m would you like me to edit the values in my post? It's still relevant.
What is your point? You think we've stuck with our 7m bid and are still wondering why Arsenal aren't interested in dealing with us ?
By every single game I mean the most important games. He will demand to start against the following home and away games: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton, and Newcastle.
These are the main top tier teams in the Premier League. Welbeck and Hernandez enjoyed starts against these teams last season giving them vital experience for the "big" games. They won't obtain the same level of experience when playing at Wolves away or Wigan away. The quality of the opposition determines the experience these young players get.
The only player on the periphery last season was Berbatov. He got 21 games out of 53. That is not good enough for Hernandez nor Welbeck who will become Peripheral players if Van Persie joins Man Utd. That will hamper the development of Welbeck and Hernandez, I definitely don't want that.
I think you judged Hernandez unfairly in your post. He is primarily a poacher, and a bloody good one at that, but he has severely improved his all round game last season and it evident for everyone to see. His first touch had improved a lot and his build up was getting better, although it was still not up to Welbeck's standards.
I thought the one striker up top with the packed midfield was Rooney's position. In the tough European games, we regularly used to see Rooney line up alone up top with Hernandez, Berbatov, and Owen on the bench (before Welbeck got into the first team). Assuming Van Persie takes Rooney's spot up top, where does Rooney play? This is all assuming I understood your point about playing 4-5-1 with a packed midfield without playing Rooney as a supporting striker.
He scored 26 league goals (if I'm not mistaken) in 2010 when he played as the striker up top for the entire season. He'd have stayed there if we had a decent supporting striker, but unfortunately we didn't and he had to be moved back there. I wouldn't say he is completely ineffective up there.
Injuries are a part of football. Rooney could break his leg tomorrow and be out for 2 years. That's football. But if we were to add squad members based on injuries, we'd have to submit a 50 man squad instead of a 25 man one. You can't do "what if" scenarios in football, you can add cover if you think it is needed. Personally, I don't think cover is needed for the striker position, we have enough in Hernandez, Welbeck, Berbatov (to be replaced by Keane next season), and sometimes Rooney.
Anyone else just instinctively scroll down whenever one of apotheosis' debates are going on?
Nail on the fecking head.
He's actually made a couple of good counter points to my arguments in this thread, worth a read if you have nothing to do.
Spot on. Agree with everything 100%, and thats not even taking into account that Kagawa plays best in the 'Rooney position'.
Carry on scrolling no mark!
Fergie won't be there forever. He needs a great striker to go out with a bang.
There.
Yeah, I think signing van Persie would restrict the progress of Welbeck and Hernandez too much. If we sign him, I think SAF was bluffing his expectations of Hernandez for this coming season, as he's the more likely to suffer IMO. Welbeck has a better all round game and can be shifted out wide (as could RvP). Hernandez would become even more of an impact sub than I already expect him to be.
An other deadline day transfer to look forward to
This is the post of the year.
RVP is better than both Hernandez and Welbeck. He would easily walk into any Premiership team.
Veerrrrry ridiculous
I don't see the point of this transfer to be honest, as brilliant as Van Persie is. I'd rather get another midfielder or left back.
our strikers for next season are; Rooney (turns 27 soon), Danny Welbeck (turns 22 soon), Hernandez (24), Berbatov (31), Macheda (21 soon), and Kagawa as a support striker (23)
Then down the ranks we have Will Keane and John Cofie (gone on loan) aged 19 who have good potential, as well as options on Henriquez and a couple of Brazilian strikers aged 16/17.
Given that Berbatov wants to leave and isn't really in our plans, the striking responsibility if falling on Rooney and then the rest of the strikers are pretty young and/or inexperienced. (we had that situation last year, we scored a lot of goals but unfortunately it wasn't enough to beat city)
Signing Van Persie immediately improves the quality of the squad and the first eleven, taking the striking pressure away from Welbeck (who will probably play anyway since he is a flexible player) and Hernandez- they will still get plenty of game time- Sir Alex is famous for rotating the team but with Van Persie and Rooney, two of the most productive strikers in the Premier League there is less of a focus on them if they go through a dry spell- as long as the team is winning.
Having a couple of years where Van Persie is a key player along with Rooney will give Welbeck and Hernandez 2/3 years of development before they are really asked to step up and provide a similar level of output as those players as Van Persie will likely be in decline. Will Keane will be 21/22 and fingers crossed ready to fill Welbeck's role as the young striker being blooded into the first team. As well as a few more years progression for all the other young strikers. I think signing him will help bridge the gap into the next set of strikers coming through.
Not to mention that Van Persie will improve the other strikers by training with them and giving advice and passing on his experience.
Then down the ranks we have Will Keane and John Cofie (gone on loan) aged 19 who have good potential, as well as options on Henriquez and a couple of Brazilian strikers aged 16/17.
Given that Berbatov wants to leave and isn't really in our plans, the striking responsibility if falling on Rooney and then the rest of the strikers are pretty young and/or inexperienced. (we had that situation last year, we scored a lot of goals but unfortunately it wasn't enough to beat city)
Signing Van Persie immediately improves the quality of the squad and the first eleven, taking the striking pressure away from Welbeck (who will probably play anyway since he is a flexible player) and Hernandez- they will still get plenty of game time- Sir Alex is famous for rotating the team but with Van Persie and Rooney, two of the most productive strikers in the Premier League there is less of a focus on them if they go through a dry spell- as long as the team is winning.
Having a couple of years where Van Persie is a key player along with Rooney will give Welbeck and Hernandez 2/3 years of development before they are really asked to step up and provide a similar level of output as those players as Van Persie will likely be in decline. Will Keane will be 21/22 and fingers crossed ready to fill Welbeck's role as the young striker being blooded into the first team. As well as a few more years progression for all the other young strikers. I think signing him will help bridge the gap into the next set of strikers coming through.
Not to mention that Van Persie will improve the other strikers by training with them and giving advice and passing on his experience.
Yeah I didn't get that. His next post is the cherry.
I think SAF has been building the squad for the future so the team is in a good condition when he leaves, but RVP is a bit of a "feck it, I want to win more before I go".
Berbatov out, van Persie in, Macheda on loan appears to be Fergie's plan.
A different scenario:
Arsenal are playing Utd along insisting on a fee they know Utd won't pay (£25m?).
They hope Utd 'persevere' in the belief that Arsenal will finally crack at the 31 August deadline and be forced to sell at a lower price at the bitter end.
Arsenal have no intention of selling RVP but happy to string Fergie along
RVP is faced with either signing the contract on offer or being in a worse position in 12 months time when he is 30
Lo and behold and realising that his chance of trophies is (because of the summer signings) as good as if not better than Utd, RVP finds God, publicly
proclaims his love for Arsenal and extends his contract on 30th August leaving Fergie incandescent with rage when he realises he's been stitched up like a kipper
When confronted with accusations of disingenuity in the process, Wenger smiles in a self satisfied way dismissing such nonsense as sour grapes whilst blowing smoke rings into the air from an expensive Cuban cheroot
Fergie is unable given the lack of time to make a signing and is faced with 3 clubs boasting stronger squads
After the season ends and Utd remain trophy less yet again and after going out in the group stages by losing home and away to Celtic, Rooney refuses to commit his future to Utd and agitates for a move to AC Milan
Fergie retires having lost his final battle to Wenger hands down
Tee hee!
Fergie's red nose
Arsenal are playing Utd along insisting on a fee they know Utd won't pay (£25m?).
They hope Utd 'persevere' in the belief that Arsenal will finally crack at the 31 August deadline and be forced to sell at a lower price at the bitter end.
Arsenal have no intention of selling RVP but happy to string Fergie along
RVP is faced with either signing the contract on offer or being in a worse position in 12 months time when he is 30
Lo and behold and realising that his chance of trophies is (because of the summer signings) as good as if not better than Utd, RVP finds God, publicly
proclaims his love for Arsenal and extends his contract on 30th August leaving Fergie incandescent with rage when he realises he's been stitched up like a kipper
When confronted with accusations of disingenuity in the process, Wenger smiles in a self satisfied way dismissing such nonsense as sour grapes whilst blowing smoke rings into the air from an expensive Cuban cheroot
Fergie is unable given the lack of time to make a signing and is faced with 3 clubs boasting stronger squads
After the season ends and Utd remain trophy less yet again and after going out in the group stages by losing home and away to Celtic, Rooney refuses to commit his future to Utd and agitates for a move to AC Milan
Fergie retires having lost his final battle to Wenger hands down
Tee hee!
Fergie's red nose
Are you on crack?
You sound like a City fan when they cry about clubs not wanting to sell them their best players i.e. full of shit.
You're new here aren't you?
Why are you just ignoring Kagawa? Or are you saying he is inexperienced? Kagawa behind Rooney is a fantastic forward line, there will be no better in th league IMO.
You are also underestimating Welbeck especially, he may be slightly inexperienced, but given the way he performed last year I don't see that as an issue. He is already good enough to play for us, what does his age have to do with it?
But regardless, he will be third choice behind Kagawa and Rooney, so it isn't as if we are reliant on him to perform every week.
Poor Arsenal fans. This is what they must fantasize about. Not winning the league or the CL, it's not letting Fergie sign their club captain and Wenger winning this "battle".
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