Oh oh, an uber-muppet is getting annoyed.
Giving Arsenal a blank cheque for a 29 year old player is not something I would do so lightly. But a muppets got to have something to amuse themselves...
Robin van Persie
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Oh oh, an uber-muppet is getting annoyed.
Giving Arsenal a blank cheque for a 29 year old player is not something I would do so lightly. But a muppets got to have something to amuse themselves...
If reports are to be believed, we've offered Arsenal 10m. Do you think that he's worth more then that?
Ahhhh... I remember the good old days when saga's used to last months...
29 isn't that bad. Not every 29 year old is near the end of their career. The fact is you have to weigh it up, against what you think they will give you and he's a goalscorer. If we want him say, what good is it us letting him go to another team. We're not talking about a fee we're uncomfortable to pay. The fact he only has a year left is the only reason we have a chance of signing him but people are looking at it and saying..well, he's 29...well he has a year left. If we persist in this bullshit we might as well buy no one and promote from within...
You can think of any great player at 29..batistuta, Ronaldo, Shearer etc and you would still buy them. It's no different here. We bought teddy at 31 - was quality. We should have bought him years before we did. RVP isn't berbatov, where he's technically good but not a great finisher. Robin is...and that's why we shouldn't be fannying about.
This makes sense to me, add to this the fact that he is a 29 year old injury prone player and I just do not want us to sign him.
I reckon he's regretting making his statement a few weeks ago now. He's burnt his bridges at Arsenal who have since signed another very good player, and the Manchester clubs don't seem to want him quite as much as he thought they would.
He could have kept his gob shut a little bit longer to see how things develop. Strange situation
He could have kept his gob shut a little bit longer to see how things develop. Strange situation
In all honesty, anything over £25M tops is 'no value'. And £25M is being very generous to Arsenal.
You only look to buy if you think it can improve the squad. Obviously RVP will do that. No career is a given. It's up to Hernandez and Welbeck to improve. Hernandez needs to work on his general play and Welbeck needs to be more clinical.
If welbeck doesn't add goals, I think we'll push him towards the wing. He's obviously more adaptable then Hernandez. If we sell Berbatov, Robin would be a great buy. He'd breath new life into the forward line and it will put pressure on the kids to improve.
With regards the future, King - Cofie and Keane...that's where our future should be. Kings been unlucky with injury but can play one or two positions. Cofie and Keane could potentially save the club how much?
We're talking about kids obviously, but there's so much promise there and they'd benefit from training with the best. Even if you view RVP as a stop gap (which might not be the case) - I think it will lift the squad, going into the new season. if we paid 20+ million and he helped us win the league? Who gives a shit how much he cost....
Right now Berbatov is a waste. He's not a good enough goalscorer. He scores in batches. 10 minutes to go, losing 1-0 to city if I had a choice between Berbatov and RVP to come on and grab a goal, I know who my money would be on.
Something good better happen today. I can't wait anymore after PSG stole Lucas away 
Kagawa for me will play LWF and in the hole. Creative from the left and even the right in an inside forward kind of way.
Essentially if you wanted to utilize them all Rooney/RvP and Kagawa could all play loose roles across a front 3. Welbeck and Hernandez for Holdup/Poach instinct football with the direct wide play. It would give us an extra dimension we haven't had in the last year and a bit.
Essentially if you wanted to utilize them all Rooney/RvP and Kagawa could all play loose roles across a front 3. Welbeck and Hernandez for Holdup/Poach instinct football with the direct wide play. It would give us an extra dimension we haven't had in the last year and a bit.
I think its his injury history on top of his age that concerns people. The players you mentioned have/didn't have the sort of injury history RSP has had, I don't think so anyway.
Also Teddy...well, he was one of the fittest football players ever...he could probably still do an occassional job for us now!!
Well the more in our squad means his 'injury load' can be properly managed. That is how I see it anyway. Even if he plays 20/25 games and nets 10 goals it's worth it.
Went onto wiki and it's not too bad. The last two seasons, he's played a fair amount of games. He's certainly scored goals. Teddy looked after himself. RVP doesn't rely on pace and looks in good shape too. Maybe if he played 50+ games a season for the last 10 years he'd be burnt out. I think our chances of winning the league would increase (if we bought him) to the point where 20million maybe 22million would be a fair bet.
If he played Berbatov for 20/25 games he would score 10 goals at the very least. Anything over 15 million for me is a bad deal for Utd, potentially a terrible deal if RVP's injury record is anything to go by.
14.5 million and you're happy?
Arsenal won't sell him to us. The only way this goes through is if he goes on strike and forces it.
Listen I'd be excited if I we signed RVP; he is a great player. But with all of these things you have to look at opportunity cost. It's a big gamble for a player of his age and injury record is all I'm saying.
His "injury history" is exaggerated. Just look at his career stats, over 30 appearances almost every season, and even in the injury-hit ones he had a good goal record. He's certainly been free from injury for a long time. Played the 2nd most minutes of anyone in the league last year. You'd think someone reaching 29 would get MORE injury prone (Rio), not LESS.
Agree about the injury record, the age is neither here nor there.
With the crazy money being spunked on players of far less quality I certainly don't think the fees being talked about for RvP are outrageous. You could make a case for him being the best striker in Europe last season. Playing in the same league as United. That's a player who is worth paying over the odds for.
We seem to want him enough to make a bid, and in Fergie's words 'persevere' in trying to get him.
The only major thing I dont like about us signing RVP is its a sign that we will be sticking with 442. Either that or its rooney on the left wing in a 433.
But the stats probably won't tell you that he missed the "business" end of the seasons when he was needed most by the Bummers......
Fair point if Kagawa plays on the wings or central midfield, I just think he will play the majority of his games in the supporting striker role.
Yes, he has managed to keep 4 quality strikers satisfied in the past, but that was when we had 2 striker positions, now, we just have one, with the other position going to the supporting striker role, a role which none of Hernandez, Welbeck, Berbatov, Will Keane, and Van Persie can play.
Welbeck is kind of wasted on the wings, although he provides cover for that position. Hernandez is a poacher, who is working on his all-round game. Welbeck will become more lethal with age. Berbatov's squad role now is different than what it was in 2009. He is the back up striker now, it it his role now to score in batches, because he will provide rests for Hernandez and Welbeck.
TBH the fee of 20 mil isn't that outrageous, if he stays with us for another 4 seasons that's 5 mil per year. The problem is his wages 220 k p/w is shitloads of monies- paying that 33 y/o player is a fecking lot.
It depends he could play wide with emphersis to cut inside. I mean that's what being versatile is all about. We did the same with Rooney, for his work ethic. At least it gives players minutes. Nothings a given though. Hopefully Welbeck will become more lethal. Berbs is the back up because he wasn't good enough...
That season that we had that shocking away record was a disaster for him. He's just not a good enough striker which is why his value has dropped dramatically. Again, with a RVP on the bench - say, it's not a contest for me. During Berbs best season, he scored in batches. He did get the odd important goal - but not consistently enough for someone as talented as he could be. I like him as a guy, he's been a model professional but I think it's fairly apparent we want to sell.
Fair enough Slevs, but i would have to say you are working on quite a number of assumptions.
Why would RVP demand to play every game possible? If he wanted that he would surely stay at Arsenal. He must recognise that a successful team needs to rotate players, as no player can reasonably play at full capacity for a whole season.
Berbatov is now a non-entity im afraid, SAF is blatantly trying to sell him and made it quite clear he is not part of his plans. Hernandez imo is a poacher nothing more, and will now take over the role of resident poacher that Owen was bought for. That realistically leaves only Welbeck for the top role, which using your own suggestion will mean Rooney or Kagawa playing behind him.
This to me is not enough, Welbeck is good, but it is unfair to expect a kid to spearhead an assault on all fronts at a club like Utd. By your own stats you have proven that even players on the periphery will still get games, so no real reason to worry about anyone being hampered in their development.
Bottom line for me is that RVP would be a huge benefit to us in games where we want to pack the midfield and leave one striker up front as a focal point. Buying RVP will give us a world class forward line, with many options. All things being equal we may have enough now, but let's not forget we took that gamble last year with the midfield and came unstuck at the final hurdle because of it.
What would happen should Welbeck get injured for any length of time? Rooney up front perhaps? Not for me, completely ineffective in that role at crucial times last year, and further evidence for me that he is not best suited for it. Throw Welbeck or Rooney out of the equation for any length of time and we look very light indeed and you would have to wonder where the goals are going to come from.
So i understand your view, but think it a little naive to simply expect a kid like Welbeck to spearhead our campaign. Yes we can worry about him not getting game time, but on the flip side there is always the burden of expecting too much from a youngster, as we saw similar expectation have a detrimental effect on the form of Jones last season.
For me RVP would be perfect for taking the burden of goals away from Rooney, while still enabling us to play an effective 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 system both in the bigger games and in Europe.
Would be very unlike Ferguson to be illegally approaching Arsenal players
Funnily enough I'd argue your lot kicked this all off when you agreed to sell C.Ronaldo for £80mill, seemed like overnight everyone's valuations went up by 50% From Zidane's transfer up until C.Ronaldo's we had seen transfer fees in the £25mill-£35mill range and many just put Zidane's fee down as almost an anomaly as it was Zidane and surely nobody would cough up that much again, boy were they wrong!
What is your personal opinion on the RvP transfer? For the money being mentioned is he worth it and more importantly do you think he is what you need.
The funny part is Sir Alex told Ronaldo he could leave for a world record fee. It was Madrid who came up with the straight £80 million that we accepted, but it didnt take that much to make a new world record.
Still £80 million well spent
Still £80 million well spent
Erm, yes, we should have turned down 80million for a player that wanted to leave
The fault, if there is any, is with the clubs prepared to fork out that sort of money.
All that said, Ronaldo is akin to Zidane in terms of him being an exceptionally talented player.
80million for an established player like Ronaldo is quite different to 35million for a player like Hazard, Lucas or Andy Carroll, or dare I say it even 50 million for Torres.
Also when Rooney signed he was probably being paid around 40-50k a week, Lucas Moura is probably going to get paid about 3 times or more that amount.
How so? I would have thought age would be a fairly crucial part of the equation when you determine a player's worth.
I think transfer fees starting getting mental again, as soon as Abramovic bought Chelsea and started spunking gazillions on buying all the right backs in Europe. The fee Madrid paid for Ronaldo was part of that same bubble. Don't forget they spent silly money on a bunch of others players as part of that same spending spree.
He's a class player. He'd improve any team and we do look a bit light up front once Berbatov moves on (which seems inevitable) In terms of where our squad needs strengthening most I wouldn't say a striker is the most obvious area for concern. It does look as though Fergie is getting a lot of funds to spend this summer, though, so it doesn't worry me that signing RVP means he won't have money to spend in other areas of the squad.
The thing is, Fergie has a history of signing players in positions where we seem to be well stocked only for them to turn out to be great signings a few years down the line. Evra and Vidic being the most obvious examples.
How so in that he's nowhere near over the hill.
You can't say that with any degree of certainty; he is 29 years old and has a poor injury record and a game that has some reliance on pace. He could be a Sheringham or he could be a Kluivert, it's a gamble. Personally I can't see RVP operating at this level when he is 32, can you? He will also have zero resale value which has to be taken into account when forking out this kind of cash.
Still a factor in that you're going to get less years out of a player already at the age of 29. Then you have to factor in as he ages he'll take more time to recover etc. His age is a factor for sure.
If RVP was 25 the fee would be a lot more than what he's end up going for (if he does go).
I'm still really undecided on if I want him too. Obviously good player but can't help thinking we don't actually 'need' him. But then the chance to get such a player is exciting...
I think I'll be fine with however this turns out.
I can easily see Van Persie operating at 32 given his game is not based on pace and the injuries he has had in the past mean his body is not knackered in the same way all of Giggs' injuries have helped him later on in his career in terms of rest.
The good thing about RvP is that even though he does have injuries, when we does play he doesn't seem to take much time, if any, to reach his top level.
The other thing is that when Scholes and Giggs leave next summer we'll go from looking like a well balanced mixed experienced squad, to a young and naive looking one. We need to keep the blend right.
The other thing is that when Scholes and Giggs leave next summer we'll go from looking like a well balanced mixed experienced squad, to a young and naive looking one. We need to keep the blend right.
I love the sentiment of your post but there is one problem. What happens if Rooney is injured? Lets say we make it to the knockout stages in Europe and Rooney is injured for the season. Do you think we can win the competition with Welbeck/Hernandez? Maybe in 3 years time when they peak but not now. We need another.
Yup.
In the 2009-10 season Dider Drogba was 32. He led Chelsea to the double, winning the Golden Boot (despite pissing off the the ACN half-way through the season) and scoring the winning goal in the FA Cup Final.
Who do you think is more reliant on youthful attributes like pace, power and athleticism to be an effective striker. Didier Drogba or Robin Van Persie?
I dont know where RVP will fit in. What I do know that our team is struggling to score goals. Welbeck is talented but he's not a natural scorer. Hernandez is a natural scorer but he's easily caught offside while Rooney has his ups and downs. RVP will be a statement for all our strikers. Deliver or you will lose your spot. He's one of the very few strikers who make Rooney worry of losing his first team place.
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