Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
hungrywing said:
Have we ever lined up with him ahead of our 'best' three in a 4231? I can't recall.
Click to expand...

Surely that was yesterday and against Palace?

Januzaj - Rooney - Mata


Or do you mean


Kagawa - Mata - Januzaj

That I would like to see.
 
For all those who say playing Rooney and VP together doesn't work, have a look at our record when both are fit and start together! It's terrific!
 
Adzzz said:
An injured player this year you mean? He's still banging them in.
Click to expand...

Yea he is still scoring but, from what we are led to believe, he is starting to throw tantrums and annoy a collection of the squad. If history has thought us anything (not all of the time but a lot of the time) about 'No argument has happened' or 'the player is not for sale' continuously arising in the media, it generally means the complete opposite.

There has been reports that the training was tailor made for him under Fergie and he is unhappy with the schedule under Moyes. Reports of a dispute between the two. Other reports even stating that he has indeed angered a section of the squad with his behavior. Not to mention his discussion with the Dutch media recently. Despite this, would sooner continue to make him happy, while hampering two players in Kagawa and Welbeck?
 
Pexbo said:
Surely that was yesterday and against Palace?

Januzaj - Rooney - Mata


Or do you mean


Kagawa - Mata - Januzaj

That I would like to see.
Click to expand...

From a team-dynamic standpoint, Rooney's our third best #10, so I don't think we should count the first lineup as one of our best.

Plus I do think there's some credence to the idea that Rooney might not be giving his all when RvP's up ahead of him.

Kag/Mata/Januzaj is exactly what I was thinking. But as I posted in this thread or the '20 minutes...' one; Moyes can't play the latter lineup now for locker-room reasons.
 
Gaeilge said:
Yea he is still scoring but, from what we are led to believe, he is starting to throw tantrums and annoy a collection of the squad. If history has thought us anything (not all of the time but a lot of the time) about 'No argument has happened' or 'the player is not for sale' continuously arising in the media, it generally means the complete opposite.

There has been reports that the training was tailor made for him under Fergie and he is unhappy with the schedule under Moyes. Reports of a dispute between the two. Other reports even stating that he has indeed angered a section of the squad with his behavior. Not to mention his discussion with the Dutch media recently. Despite this, would sooner continue to make him happy, while hampering two players in Kagawa and Welbeck?
Click to expand...
RVP is on the same training regime as the one under Ferguson.
 
Mel_F said:
RVP is on the same training regime as the one under Ferguson.
Click to expand...

You know this how exactly? http://www1.skysports.com/watch/tv-...hester-united-say-the-sunday-supplement-panel

Pay particular attention to - There have been problems with the training because the training used to be tailored to him and it's not anymore. And there was another issue when David Moyes rightly said everyone starts with a clean slate and you have to prove yourself to me and he didn't like that either because he thought he was above that

No I know its media but, they surely have a better idea than us right?
 
Gaeilge said:
A proven title winner under Sir Alex Ferguson. A completely different player this year.
Click to expand...


A completely different team this year more like. RvP is having a poor season (by his standards) but as still produced 11 goals and 4 assists in 16 league games.
He's clearly unhappy with the direction the club is going under Moyes, his relationship with him is supposed to be poor as well. We'd be mad to sell our best players and give this guy the job of rebuilding our squad, he's clearly out of his depth, the faster he goes the better it will be for everybody including RvP.
 
Gaeilge said:
You know this how exactly? http://www1.skysports.com/watch/tv-...hester-united-say-the-sunday-supplement-panel

Pay particular attention to - There have been problems with the training because the training used to be tailored to him and it's not anymore. And there was another issue when David Moyes rightly said everyone starts with a clean slate and you have to prove yourself to me and he didn't like that either because he thought he was above that

No I know its media but, they surely have a better idea than us right?
Click to expand...

Pardon me not digging for the source, but Moyes said that he's spoken to RVP a lot about how he wants to train and he gives him nearly a free hand with it because he knows his body the best.
 
'Hampering' two players he's astronomically better than, while this is also based on media conjecture? No thanks.
 
Castia said:
A completely different team this year more like. RvP is having a poor season (by his standards) but as still produced 11 goals and 4 assists in 16 league games.
He's clearly unhappy with the direction the club is going under Moyes, his relationship with him is supposed to be poor as well. We'd be mad to sell our best players and give this guy the job of rebuilding our squad, he's clearly out of his depth, the faster he goes the better it will be for everybody including RvP.
Click to expand...

Can't agree with that. He put out the best XI we have seen all season yesterday. That's anything but being out of his comfort range or even taking a step back. He has to be given plaudits for everything yesterday. Starting Jones and Smalling at CB was ace and employing the best formation imaginable, while given Fellaini a role that achieved near perfection.

This type of debate will not end with either of us agreeing with one another. Yes, RvP has contributed figures (11 goals and 3 assists to be exact) but, he also displayed one of the worst attitudes I have seen on the pitch yesterday. If he was not attempting to get sent off, I don't know what he was trying to do. If that is the answer to being unhappy with the clubs showing this term, I for one don't want any of it.
 
Kostur said:
Pardon me not digging for the source, but Moyes said that he's spoken to RVP a lot about how he wants to train and he gives him nearly a free hand with it because he knows his body the best.
Click to expand...

Your entitled to say what you will man. This may have been said before and the article above is from this morning. Tomato, tomato
 
Selling Robin Van Persie would not be right for Manchester United.

Van Persie's productivity despite his overall level of performance will not be easily replicated. 11 goals and 4 assists despite months out injured and clearly not enjoying the way we've been playing speaks for itself.

The problem between Van Persie and Rooney is clear but not something that can't be solved. Cut through all the tactic speak and the basic issue seems to be they don't really like each other. Welbeck did not make radically different runs to Van Persie yesterday after coming on, and given Welbeck's tendency to drop and link up you can actually say he's stylistically similar to Van Persie. The difference, clearly, is that Welbeck gets on better with Rooney. This has been clear as day since the season started e.g. remember the through ball to Van Persie that Rooney never played at home against Chelsea? Moyes needs to sit them down and tell them to get over it. They both want trophies and their chances of getting that are better if they leave their personal issues off the pitch and help each other.
 
Adzzz said:
'Hampering' two players he's astronomically better than, while this is also based on media conjecture? No thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, 'hampering'. Kagawa has completely overlooked because of RvP's presence and if you want to honestly tell me that Welbeck will not be held back because of it, I dunno what to say. What else can I base it on? Unfortunately I don't have a direct link to RvP or the United backroom staff. What exactly are you basing your response on? Gut instinct?
 
So many people seem to be criticising him, I don't get it. He's been injured a fair bit, is still our top scorer and this is with our team creating very few chances each game. So what he got a bit frustrated and put in some daft tackles, isn't that what people love Rooney doing? Honestly, just like Rafael people have such short memories. This guy single handedly won us the title last season with loads of important goals and people think we should sell him.
 
Gaeilge said:
I would happily see him go this season.

He is obviously a fantastic striker and player in general but, he has clearly got an issue with the club right now. His attitude during the game yesterday was awful - was he trying to get sent off ffs? If he left right now, it would give Rooney an opportunity to be the #1 striker at the club and allow Welbeck to assert himself on a regular basis. I would sooner have a 23 year old fresh prince who wants to be at the club, rather than a 30 year old pissed of Dutch man who is gathering more headlines the club in general.

Not to mention the game time that Kagawa would get from this...
Click to expand...
How many games has Rooney nearly been sent off for being a nutter? RVP looks frustrated and we should let him go?
 
Adzzz said:
'Hampering' two players he's astronomically better than, while this is also based on media conjecture? No thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't think people are actually saying RVP out so Kagawa can play, are they?


I think they are saying that it's either Rooney or Van Persie in that striker position because the partnership isn't working and it's Rooney that just signed a new, massive, deal.

We've got genuine number 10's in Mata and Kagawa so why persist with Rooney behind Van Persie when it's hampering the whole teams performance?
 
Orton said:
How many games has Rooney nearly been sent off for being a nutter? RVP looks frustrated and we should let him go?
Click to expand...

Honestly man, if you're going to take a snippit of what I have posted above and look to turn my entire debate into that - I have nothing to say....
 
Pexbo said:
I don't think people are actually saying RVP out so Kagawa can play, are they?


I think they are saying that it's either Rooney or Van Persie in that striker position because the partnership isn't working and it's Rooney that just signed a new, massive, deal.

We've got genuine number 10's in Mata and Kagawa so why persist with Rooney behind Van Persie when it's hampering the whole teams performance?
Click to expand...

Bingo!
 
Pexbo said:
I don't think people are actually saying RVP out so Kagawa can play, are they?


I think they are saying that it's either Rooney or Van Persie in that striker position because the partnership isn't working and it's Rooney that just signed a new, massive, deal.

We've got genuine number 10's in Mata and Kagawa so why persist with Rooney behind Van Persie when it's hampering the whole teams performance?
Click to expand...
Face it, we signed players because of who they were and not because they were what we needed. We done it all the time under Fergie, whether it be a top player or whether it be a youngster who was too good to pass up on. It's obvious Rooney and RVP don't work well together, but both are too good to sit on the bench and I don't see either of them being benched. Moyes will keep on playing them both. We signed Mata because he was available, and we didn't "need" him, but his quality was something that the team could do with.
 
Gaeilge said:
Can't agree with that. He put out the best XI we have seen all season yesterday. That's anything but being out of his comfort range or even taking a step back. He has to be given plaudits for everything yesterday. Starting Jones and Smalling at CB was ace and employing the best formation imaginable, while given Fellaini a role that achieved near perfection.

This type of debate will not end with either of us agreeing with one another. Yes, RvP has contributed figures (11 goals and 3 assists to be exact) but, he also displayed one of the worst attitudes I have seen on the pitch yesterday. If he was not attempting to get sent off, I don't know what he was trying to do. If that is the answer to being unhappy with the clubs showing this term, I for one don't want any of it.
Click to expand...



Running around like a madman to paraphrase?
 
It's understandable players getting frustrated. They should do if performances from the team aren't to the level expected. The difference is they should not show their frustration in public or run to the media to undermine the coaches, or the club. Work through the issues behind the scenes.

Unless RvP himself wants a move he should not be sold. There's plenty of games in a season where both can be accommodated together, rested or injury forces one of them to be sidelined. Moyes should man up and sub one of these players if he thinks it will serve the team better.
 
Gaeilge said:
Can't agree with that. He put out the best XI we have seen all season yesterday. That's anything but being out of his comfort range or even taking a step back. He has to be given plaudits for everything yesterday. Starting Jones and Smalling at CB was ace and employing the best formation imaginable, while given Fellaini a role that achieved near perfection.

This type of debate will not end with either of us agreeing with one another. Yes, RvP has contributed figures (11 goals and 3 assists to be exact) but, he also displayed one of the worst attitudes I have seen on the pitch yesterday. If he was not attempting to get sent off, I don't know what he was trying to do. If that is the answer to being unhappy with the clubs showing this term, I for one don't want any of it.
Click to expand...

He was working his arse off more yesterday than he had in the last few weeks and with that one tackle that he could've got sent off for he was just trying to recover it after a sloppy touch. He even won the ball while doing so. Not sure how that amounts to being a terrible attitude. There's still plenty of frustration in his game and that was part of it but I don't think there was much else wrong with his attitude than that.
 
Gaeilge said:
If he was not attempting to get sent off, I don't know what he was trying to do. If that is the answer to being unhappy with the clubs showing this term, I for one don't want any of it.
Click to expand...
He got the ball. He was closing the player down. If anything it would have been lack of passion if he had not gone in for the tackle.
 
People were salivating RvP signing for United. Now some are questioning his commitment and quality.

Mind boggles!
 
Brwned said:
He was working his arse off more yesterday than he had in the last few weeks and with that one tackle that he could've got sent off for he was just trying to recover it after a sloppy touch. He even won the ball while doing so. Not sure how that amounts to being a terrible attitude. There's still plenty of frustration in his game and that was part of it but I don't think there was much else wrong with his attitude than that.
Click to expand...

I think it is pretty blindsided to think he made one irrational tackle yesterday. We were in a group watching it and he was reckless on 3 occasions. The commentator himself laid point that the substitution was for his own good and the sake of the team?
 
Godfather said:
Nev has gone full retard since his brother was handed that job at United.
Click to expand...

You know what makes me laugh about Gary? If Sir Alex had retired in 2001/02 as intended, and we brought in Eriksson who would oversee a huge decline, Neville is the one player I would expect to be the bastard of the group. This is the same guy that was going to lead a boycott of his national team. If he was still playing, he'd be the first player I'd pick out for making a nuisance of himself given our current situation.

It's why I laugh when he says things like "the players will all be out before Moyes" as if it's the right thing to do. If the Premier League had to pick a player to represent the players as some kind of lefty, awkward pain in the arse union rep, Nev would be the go-to man. Not now.
 
Sultan said:
People were salivating RvP signing for United. Now some are questioning his commitment and quality.

Mind boggles!
Click to expand...

Why exactly? This is because you can look at a clearly pissed off player and maintain it is passion. All the while ignoring everything that has been written and said with regards to his relationship with the club? How can it be justified that he will blame his team mates on Dutch television?
 
Gaeilge said:
I think it is pretty blindsided to think he made one irrational tackle yesterday. We were in a group watching it and he was reckless on 3 occasions. The commentator himself laid point that the substitution was for his own good and the sake of the team?
Click to expand...

Well if the commentator said it it must be true. I think if he wanted to get himself sent off he could have found a much easier way to do it. Something more like this:

 
If a striker of his class is not getting the service and results I can understand his frustration. If that is was is being interpreted. Just check United forums and you'll see the frustrations from the fans. It's completely natural not to be happy when results and performances are suffering.
 
Gaeilge said:
We are a faster, more attractive looking team without him playing though. I'm not basing this on 20 minutes yesterday - more so, on my overall opinion of the player/situation. I feel as though there is a distinct lack of either desire to play for or, respect for Moyes with regard to RvP. There are two completely different players with RvP - the Robin of last year under SAF and the Robin of this year under Moyes.

I'm not denying that he is in the class you have stated, he is a world class striker. Problem with continental 'World-Class players' like Ibra for example, is a distinct toys out of pram attitude. Disregarding the obvious fact of him being a technically gifted footballer, his comments recently to Dutch media were like that of a spoilt child. I disagree that we need to build our team around him. We should instead be building our team around one of (if not all of) our technically gifted small men - ie; Januzaj - Mata - Kagawa. Doing that would inevitably create chances for our team. Rooney would thrive in that environment. As would Danny.
Click to expand...

We are definitely not a faster, more attractive looking team with Rooney in, however.

The amount of times he dilly-dallies on the ball when there's a promising move (recent England performance/Olympiakos/1st half yesterday), and if he gets a bit flustered he just hits it out wide to Valencia as if it's a majestic pass. It's not.

Yes-Rooney looked decent in the last 20 min of the game yesterday, but to be honest, the movement and dynamism was all from Mata, Kagawa and Welbeck (and Felli) who moved the ball very quickly from with short incisive passes. The fact that RvP has similar movement and passing behind him at Arsenal and still banged in goals shows that if we do play this way, we can get the best out of him.
 
Pexbo said:
I don't think people are actually saying RVP out so Kagawa can play, are they?


I think they are saying that it's either Rooney or Van Persie in that striker position because the partnership isn't working and it's Rooney that just signed a new, massive, deal.

We've got genuine number 10's in Mata and Kagawa so why persist with Rooney behind Van Persie when it's hampering the whole teams performance?
Click to expand...

Too much logic go away
 
Mel_F said:
What do the two things have to do with each other? People are questioning his commitment based on how he's acting on the pitch.
Click to expand...
Who are these people questioning his commitment? The people who matter picks him every game.
 
Last edited:
Look it, all of this is just my opinion, not fact. It is my opinion that there is too much media speculation surrounding his dismay and lack of interest in the club to ignore. What you have deemed as passion, I deemed different yesterday. Thankfully, neither of us are right or wrong - that's the joys of a forum.

I have not once said he is not contributing goals to the team, he is and he is still a class player. To defend his apparent lack of harmony and portray such as an appropriate frustration to the teams performance is wrong though. To that I will strongly disagree
 
Gaeilge said:
Why exactly? This is because you can look at a clearly pissed off player and maintain it is passion. All the while ignoring everything that has been written and said with regards to his relationship with the club? How can it be justified that he will blame his team mates on Dutch television?
Click to expand...
The Manchester United reaction in such a situation would be to hand out 300k/week contracts.
 
Uzz said:
Not agreed.

RvP is in that elite class of strikers (Falcao, Cavani, Ibra etc.) and we are lucky to have him. We need to base our team around him to get the best out of him as he has the ability to dominate the best defences. Letting him go would be a very poor move as he has another 2 (maybe 3) seasons at this level. For all those saying he's too old look at Ibra.

Rooney isn't at that level as a striker, and although he is a talented player, he's not as good as RvP. That's the facts of the matter.
Click to expand...

Is it really that clear cut? In RVP's best season he managed 3 more goals than Rooney whilst playing 5 more games. Last season in Rooney's deeper position he managed 16 goals in 38 games. RVP put away 30 in 48 games.

Letting him go would be a huge mistake, but if in this current team it was a toss up between Rooney or RVP, I'd have to go with Rooney because he can fill in anywhere and make things happen without relying on others. Ideally both would be kept because RVP is the better finisher, but I'm not sure it would happen.
 
Blue always red said:
Is it really that clear cut? In RVP's best season he managed 3 more goals than Rooney whilst playing 5 more games. Last season in Rooney's deeper position he managed 16 goals in 38 games. RVP put away 30 in 48 games.

Letting him go would be a huge mistake, but if in this current team it was a toss up between Rooney or RVP, I'd have to go with Rooney because he can fill in anywhere and make things happen without relying on others. Ideally both would be kept because RVP is the better finisher, but I'm not sure it would happen.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, Rooney has the capability to hit that elite level that I see with the likes of RvP, Ibra et al. He's managed it twice in 10 seasons with us (granted-his earlier seasons he was playing second fiddle to RvN/Saha/Ronnie) but it's not a good enough return.

His attitude stinks, the fact that he's so hell bent on being paid exorbitant sums is pathetic, this coupled with the fact that he's injured/unfit/overweight a great deal of that time, and his off the field controversies (affairs etc.) show that Rooney doesn't want to hit that level. Or he doesn't have the desire to hit that level and that's the worst thing, having the ability but not the motivation. He doesn't have that consistency that we see with other strikers. For me, Rooney epitomises everything that is wrong with the game in today's age.

So in terms of ability, maybe there isn't much difference between Rooney and RvP, but I see a lot more of RvP's ability on a more frequent basis than I have with Rooney for near on 10 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.