Ill be more surprised to see Kagawa in a United shirt next season rather then RVP
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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Ill be more surprised to see Kagawa in a United shirt next season rather then RVP
We wouldn't have this problem if we just sold Rooney.
And in my opinion that would be a step to the wrong direction.
I prefer Rooney to him. RVP is a better finisher but Rooney has more to offer then RVP.
Talk about being dramatic. If you honestly think that being unfit/overweight and having off-field controversies is something that is something specific to football in today's age you could probably do with refreshing your memory about United in the late 80s and earlier. Or you could just read a few stories about George Best.
I think you're missing my point.
The game has evolved to a point where athletes can maximise their output, whether it be by nutrition, or training, or resting or whatever. Look at what people say about Ronaldo-last one off the training ground, always putting in extra hours, looks after himself, etc. Even Roy Keane had these impeccable standards when it came to training to be the best, attain the best and expect the best. Rooney just doesn't have that mentality and he has all the tools at his disposal.
Now I'm not saying RvP has a similar work ethic to Keane or Ronaldo (he might do, I don't know), but how many coaches or explayers have ever said the same about Rooney in terms of putting the hours in and the like?
RvP is the better player and was our most important player last year when we won the league by 11 points. We would be a better team with Mata in behind RvP and two solid CM's behind him than Mata in behind Rooney.
In terms of technique, backtracking and assists Rooney is the better player. RVP is a better finisher.
I wouldnt mind if we shift to a 'false' forward line system which would mean having 3-4 players (Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and Kroos?) constantly shifting their positions between each other. Rooney can play that role, RVP cant.
What an unnecessary comment
Completely disagree with this. I think that both in short passing, shoot technique and first touch RVP is better than Rooney. Rooney's first touch is one of the worst in top player category.
I never do this but brilliant post. Well done
We follow a team that not only meets and greets but, also says a found farewell to many superstars - some that we honestly feel we may never replace. I am being honest when I say that as much as I dislike Rooney and his attitude at times, I would be very, very worried if we were to sell him. I would not be worried if we sold RvP tomorrow.
Whatever about this lack of desire that you donate to Rooney and his match preparation, he is our most important player bar none. He is a prime example of a player that can 'run around like a nutter' without leaving a lasting taste of trying to get sent off in peoples heads. Yes, he has one of the worst tempers on the field today but, his contribution to the majority of games is irreplaceable for us IMO.
Technique? RvP is better in that category. Backtracking? If we had 2 proper CM's RvP wouldn't need to backtrack. Assists? Rooney only gets more because he plays in a better position to do so.
I'm sure most top managers would prefer RvP over Rooney.
Anyone got a gif of Rooney "getting in his way"? I'd like to see it again before I make a judgement but when I saw it live I thought RVP made a bit of a meal out of it to make a bit of a point.
Yea just like RVP gets more goals because he also plays in a better position to do so.
The thing is Rooney can play both positions and do a good job there, RVP is limited to the deep striker role. Another thing is that RVP is more static than Rooney and actually slows us down upfront. He is a great finisher an an intelligent player but he is far more limited than Rooney in other aspects of the game. If we play Rooney upfront as a striker, we have alot more tactical options to exploit during the game, we'll have more interchanging positions upfront (which would also benefit players like Mata, kagawa and Januzaj alot more) and we'd play at a higher tempo. We'd miss his finishing I agree but we'd be gaining in other aspects of the play.
Also if any of the rumours are ture that RVP doesn't want to be here anymore, than I don't understand why some you are still defending him and are shiting on a player who does want to be here and engaged himself to this club for the rest of his career. RVP clearly only wanted to be here to share in the succes that SAF brought along, now that he is gone and the going gets though the guy wants to abandon ship, while he is one of the most played players in the squad and also earning a shitload of money (he has got nothing to complain about). If he wants out, than he clearly only wanted to be here as long as everything was rosy and Ferguson was here. If that is the case, than he can genuinely feck off for me and take his shitty mercenary attitude elsewhere.
Didn't read past this page but I don't understand what the point is of debating RVP vs Rooney for the no.9 role, regardless of whomever has the better techniquie, fitness or scoring record, if one wants to go (RvP) and the other is quite content to stay and help battle our way back to greatness (Rooney) then then any such "choice" is moot.
A lot of noise surrounding us selling him in the summer. Whether that's down to speculation based on his interviews, body language and general demeanour I don't know. But let's be honest, no one can be outraged. It'd be a bit like getting with a married woman and then being shocked when she cheats on you a few months later. He only ever came here to win trophies. I suspect this season will be a write off and a cup might still be our best bet next summer. If he can get a similar financial deal elsewhere I wouldn't be surprised if he was at the very least open to a move.
I refuse to read the rest of your post when you said Rooney has better technique than RVP. That's just plain laughable.
He's starting to move into the Ruud area of moaning and waving his arms in complaint with team mates. They have very similar frustration levels. Fergie knew how disruptive Ruud was becoming in the dressing room and to his own authority and put the lid on that very firmly. I'm glad Moyes took him off the other day, showed a bit of character and leadership.
I think the interviews/body language aspect of it is greatly exaggerated... the bigger problem is probably that he and Rooney have not really gelled in the same team. And as a result of Rooney signing the contract, fans are more likely to view RvP as dispensable.
I think Ruud was much worse, he had that infamous bust up with Ronaldo on the training ground too.
Plus with Ruud you could clearly see the difference when he was not on the pitch - when someone like Saha came in it was a breath of fresh air and it really revived our attack. Ruud was still scoring goals every other game but there was never a whole great deal to his game aside from scoring. RvP, on the pitch, offers so much more than Ruud IMO. People say Rooney offers so much more than an average striker, but RvP is pretty complete as well IMO.
That's definitely the case. At the start of the season the majority wanted Rooney gone, and now the tables have turned and Rooney's back on side so it's RVP's turn to leave again. Welbeck shouldn't start regularly either, because he's not as good as these 2. More like Moyes needs to find a way for them to play together and stop them getting in each others way, because Rooney dropped much deeper when Van Persie went off the other day, so why can't he do that when he was on the pitch? If Moyes can't improve them as a pair before the end of the season then maybe he should look at something different. Also, how is he a mercenary? (noticed somebody said that above) Didn't he say when he joined he wanted to win trophies? The best players want to compete for trophies and test themselves at the highest level. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. There is hardly any loyalty in football nowadays. People are just so ingrained in Sir Alex and the fledglings. Rooney wouldn't want to be here if he wasn't offered higher wages than every other football player. Simple as that.
I don't get the criticism, I think he was actually one of our best players in the first half(still didn't see lot of the ball, but no one did anyway, it was average half from the team anyway), and it was nice to see him tackling people again like he always used to do(second one was too much though), but the point about him and Rooney still stands, they can't play together or we don't know how to use both of them in pair properly. I don't like Rooney on the wing, but I would definitely try him on the left for couple of games in a row and let Mata through the middle and let's see how we do.
Sure, hes a great player and can be so good for us but all of that only occurs when he isn't being stroppy. He really needs to fix his attitude but that can't just happen because obviously something is affecting him and I reckon its our performances/results. I think with the coming weeks we should find a solution for the Rooney/RVP dilemma, also I reckon our results will be great too. In the coming weeks I can see us playing a better brand of football and picking up better results, of course all of that will also have an affect on RVP and his attitude.
No-one really seems to gel with Rooney do they. Perhaps he should be the dispensable one. Most players seem to gel with RVP.
I'd love to see if Rooney can actually still cut it up front by himself. When was the last time we played him in the way we did in 09/10?
He's lost more than a yard of pace, isn't quite as energetic and his shots seem a bit less forceful too. He's improved other aspects of his game - free kicks in particular - but before we get rid of our world class striker I'd make damn sure that the other world-class striker can still play as one.
He's lost more than a yard of pace, isn't quite as energetic and his shots seem a bit less forceful too. He's improved other aspects of his game - free kicks in particular - but before we get rid of our world class striker I'd make damn sure that the other world-class striker can still play as one.
RVP has not exactly come out to firmly deny the many.. many reports of being discontent here at United, while at the same time last year prior him learning of Sir Alex retirement you couldnt get him to shut up about his new club/team.
The papers make up a truck load of garbage but when so many are reporting it, and for so long this season, there's usually a shred of truth in what they report, (No smoke without fire) so your idea of building a team around someone who might not actually want to be here, and jettisoning the striker who does seems to be a tad illogical.
Pretty much this. Moyes previously stated that he'd give the chance to all the players and both him and Rooney have got the chance. Of course, we can afford to keep them both on the team and but one will have to agree to considerably less playing time next year.
Of course we are not privvy to all the details between Van Persie and Moyes, but I'd trust that both of them are experienced enough to put this behind them if they want to work together though.
Who would you say doesn't gel with him apart from RVP?
I still think that buying RvP was one of SAF's biggest mistakes. Of course we'll never know if we'd have won the Premiership without him last season, although I suspect we would. (Where would the goals have come from? That's what we asked when Ronaldo and Tevez left - in each of the last four seasons we've scored at least 10 more goals than in their last season with us; in three of those four we scored more than in 07-08, their best season.) The effort to play RvP and Rooney together has distorted our style of play and, I suspect led to a lot of the problems this season. For me, the purchase of Kagawa and the pursuit of Hazard and Moura signaled an intention to move to focus on attacking more narrowly rather than the reliance on wing play of the previous few years. The purchase of RvP made no sense in that context and returned us, in effect, to the RvN era - a striker with a 10 man supporting cast. Moyes has been left to pick up the pieces (even with SAF at the helm we finished 3rd in three of the four years after we bought RvN). Nobody doubts that RvP is a great player - I just think that we'd be a much better team without him - particularly as we'd have had a season's experience playing in a more coherent system before the reins were handed to Moyes.
Goal.com are reporting he has some kind of exit clause if United don't get a top 4 finish this season which would allow him to talk to teams and leave for a limited fee. Now that may all be a load of bullshit (which it probably is) but if it is true than SAF really made a dick move signing RVP just to flourish up his last season and make sure he could end it with some silverware. Apparently he promised RVP he would be at the club for the next couple of years and was going to build a team that could win the CL again, if he also agreed on an exit clause that he could leave if United don't get top 4 finish and after his first season retires and decides Moyes to take up charge than signing RVP was an all together stupid move or just a dick move from SAF.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892...has-exit-trigger-clause-in-manchester-united-
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892...has-exit-trigger-clause-in-manchester-united-
Stopped reading after a Goal.com
Even if he did have that exit clause, then so what? He didn't sign to be fighting for top 4. He's done that for years. He signed to win trophies. Nobody expected us to drop off so badly this season and I wouldn't hold it against him if he did want to leave.
I can't believe people can even fathom the idea of selling RVP, our best striker and one of the best in world football. With the position we are in (on and off the field) we need to keep hold of all world class players, which includes Rooney and RVP. Even with what's going on, RVP is still getting goals, imagine how he will be once we get in better players and stop the zombie football nonsense... Just because we looked better once Welbeck came on and RVP got subbed in this ONE game doesnt suddenly make RVP dispensable.
Would you feel confident if RVP was sold and Welbeck was leading the line for next season? I wouldn't. And I can already image some smartass talking shit about buying a new striker... well no. RVP, with his age and wage will not give us the type of money to replace him with someone of equal quality, and to be fair there aren't many out there that can replace him (that we can realistically buy). We have many problems in the team but strikeforce isn't one of them. We should concentrate on filling these holes rather than tinkering with our forward line.
Would you feel confident if RVP was sold and Welbeck was leading the line for next season? I wouldn't. And I can already image some smartass talking shit about buying a new striker... well no. RVP, with his age and wage will not give us the type of money to replace him with someone of equal quality, and to be fair there aren't many out there that can replace him (that we can realistically buy). We have many problems in the team but strikeforce isn't one of them. We should concentrate on filling these holes rather than tinkering with our forward line.
While I agree with every word of your first para, if RVP did leave Welbeck wouldnt lead the line, surely Rooney would.
I personally think Rooney plays best just behind a leading striker. I'm not so sure I would want him as the man leading the forward line by himself. That's just my personal opinion though.
Fact of the matter is Rooney and RVP don't work well together, and that's not a kneejerk reaction. Rooney's just signed a fat contract so he obviously won't be leaving, and I doubt either of them are going to be content playing second fiddle to the other.
We can either force the two of them to play together and carry on playing disjointed football or we can make a decision for the good of the club. There's no point in having a great player, and he is a great player, if he's not fitting in.
Waving off Rooney's defensive contribution is silly. He has amazing stamina and his attitude, which might stink off the pitch, is 100 times better than RVPs on the pitch. Hes one of the few striker who can actually do defensive runs for large portions of the match without detrimental effect on his attacking play. I know a lot of people laugh at the notion of a "defensive" striker, but in the modern game no player should be allowed a freebie not to participate defensively. Rooney is the best defensive striker in the world.
Rooney gets more assists than RVP and thats down to his position? The very same argument can be applied to goals, and has been pointed out earlier, Rooney's best goals tally is only 3 goals worse than RVP's best goal tally (with 5 more games played too) when played as the furthest forward.
People seem to think that Rooney's goal tallies the last few seasons are comparable to players like RVP who have played as the main striker. Rooney has not. Hes been forced extremely deep at times, both the last few seasons under SAF and untill very recently under Moyes. His goal tally when this is taken into account is formidable. And he would score more if he had RVPs position.
Id drop RVP ahead of Rooney every day. Rooney is younger and more important for the club. RVP was a very important factor in our title last season, but hes not an important part of the future like Rooney is. I really hope to see Rooney deployed as a striker with a proper n10 behind.
He doesn't seem overkeen on playing with Hernandez, didn't seem to like playing with Berba, now RVP and let's not forget him frequently looking grumpy and shouting at various players when they haven't produced the pass he wanted. Can't offhand think of anyone he particularly gels with, can you?
agree with most of that.
highly debatable.
not sure about that one dev
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