I don't expect him to immediately turn us into title contenders, laying everyone in our path to waste, but it's pretty logical to think that we will have a bit more attacking potency when we introduce our best striker, and arguably the best striker around. Not just his goals, but his control and link up play all over the pitch is better than nearly anyone in our squad. It's something we are missing in the final third. Not just the final ball, but the build up to the final ball. We talk about how we are struggling to create chances, but he also plays a big part in that as well, playing the right passes around the box. He's also one of few players we have who can also create a goal from very little.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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I don't expect him to immediately turn us into title contenders, laying everyone in our path to waste, but it's pretty logical to think that we will have a bit more attacking potency when we introduce our best striker, and arguably the best striker around. Not just his goals, but his control and link up play all over the pitch is better than nearly anyone in our squad. It's something we are missing in the final third. Not just the final ball, but the build up to the final ball. We talk about how we are struggling to create chances, but he also plays a big part in that as well, playing the right passes around the box. He's also one of few players we have who can also create a goal from very little.
Well, it's not hard to see why people think he'd be an improvement over Welbeck or Hernandez - probably because he's clearly a much better striker than either of them? You seem happy to judge him over the period where the team were playing their first games under Moyes, but not to give him the benefit of the doubt that coming into a team having played under that manager for half a season now, will probably perform better.
It's also a no-brainer, you'd have to be a bit ignorant to wonder what RVP's return to a team might do.
He seemed out of sorts. He was still scoring but wasn't doing much else. It's probably the injuries that was causing his contributions to be more withdrawn.I wanna see him Januzaj and Rooney on pitch together. Hope to feck we do it and not have this idea that anymore than two creative players on the pitch at once is unsustainable.
I never got the 'you can't play Rooney, RVP and Kagawa at the same time' argument either. Why the feck not?
I never got the 'you can't play Rooney, RVP and Kagawa at the same time' argument either. Why the feck not?
Personally I would be demanding you dont win itMy point is Welbecks played well in RVP's absence, hes younger and going to be at the club longer in all likelyhood his promotion is probably more beneficial in the long run.
So you'd play Welbeck over RVP, even though RVP is the much better player, because he is younger and will be at the club for longer?
We didn't create much lots of times last season either, it didn't stop him scoring 30 goals.
Oh good, stats, the undeniable proof of everything when it comes to football.
Do you even need stats? It's blatantly obvious.
well it's quite easy to comprehend.
last season we had x number of crosses, this years we have x- y number of crosses, where y is significant.
last season we had x number of shots, this year we have x-y number of shots, where y is significant.
Of course his return will be a catalyst - he's a world class player. Despite not enjoying great form prior to his injury, he got to 10 goals. We're also slightly more prolific now than when he was previously in the side; he's coming into a team that has found its feet a bit more in attack.
And sometimes, RVP just cnuts one in from 30 yards, rendering all of the above an irrelevance.
What's obvious? Our lack of chances is hindering RvP? He still has 8 goals in 12 starts. Last season he had 29 goals in 41 starts, and last season he wasn't constantly in and out of the squad with injuries, was he?
There's nothing about our play or his productivity/tally this season to suggest that if he was fully fit he wouldn't still be hitting those numbers.
This.
There is a number of reason why. But, RVP is our best player and we increase our chances a lot when he is playing. Have you seen the stats when he and Rooney is starting?
That we're creating less. I've no doubt his return will be extremely beneficial.
You obviously weren't watching us at times last season then, he was basically scoring goals out of nothing, it's why he's so good, he doesn't need constant delivery and great crossing to hit high numbers.
Him and Rooney ever present in our last 16-17 games and we will be producing championship winning point total (on average) for those 16-17 games (38-40 points), thus helping us secure that 4th place, which has become so crucial.
If when we have RVP back and Januzaj and Rooney on the pitch - if our attacks are repeatedly knocking balls out to one of the three unwise donkeys on the wing to just whack a hit and hope ball into the middle, I won't be pleased.
Of course having a fit RvP back in the squad will be a massive boost. He was below-par (probably because of underlying injuries) earlier in the season but he still scored lots of goals. So I don't see how getting him back injury free and full of confidence won't be a good thing.
Someone better let Moyes know that Plugsy from redcafe won't be pleased.
As annoying as the early crossing is there is nothing to suggest we are looking to change that approach.
Im not sure i'd play him over him, but he has filled RVP's boots ok in the past few games, and getting him up to a top class level is a better long term solution than pinning all your hopes on RVP to finish 4th.
Thank you for that lesson in complex Mathematics.
RVP was anonymous in a lot of our games earlier in the season because we were slow, very slow. We'd hardly dominate possession when it mattered and when we had it we just passed it backwards and sideways. Even during that time you could see if/when RVP got the ball, he'd make things happen - he'd hold it up and at least bring people into play.
Lets not forget we started the season with the likes of Giggs/Rio/Vida - all great players but, seemingly affected the pace we played at. Sure Valencia right now keeps being predictable and smashing crosses but even that is an improvement as before he wouldn't get by players and put pressure on defenses. As we've moved on in the season, we've actually started to play with a bit more energy as younger players have come in - not great but better. RVP perhaps didn't look as happy but, our problems had little to do with him and our play hasn't improved because he has been out. It's not hard to imagine when he does come back he could really make a difference given his quality.
Lets not forget we started the season with the likes of Giggs/Rio/Vida - all great players but, seemingly affected the pace we played at. Sure Valencia right now keeps being predictable and smashing crosses but even that is an improvement as before he wouldn't get by players and put pressure on defenses. As we've moved on in the season, we've actually started to play with a bit more energy as younger players have come in - not great but better. RVP perhaps didn't look as happy but, our problems had little to do with him and our play hasn't improved because he has been out. It's not hard to imagine when he does come back he could really make a difference given his quality.
If you're not going to play Welbeck over RVP, what is your actual point here?
It's like the two points are directly at odds with each other.
We didn't play great football last season but we certainly created more chances, a contributing factor to the differing positions in the table between this year and last. I've no doubt RvPs return will be beneficial but it's clear we've created less this year. He scored some great goals but also scored a lot (and missed quite a few) sitters as a result of his very good movement and a more potent attack.
Except RvP hasn't been any less productive this season than last season when he's started games, last season we had the benefit of seeing him in most matches, so it's easy to say 'we created more' isn't it? We've no idea how creative we'd be with him out on the pitch every week.
Also, he had 10 assists in the PL last season, matched only (by a long way) by Rooney, which gives an indication that he was also a very important factor in chances created, not just goals scored. People are really reaching by saying a fully fit RvP wouldn't be as effective as he was last season, when there hasn't been anything from him this season (when he's fit) to suggest otherwise.
The consensus on here seems to be that RVP returning will be such a massive fillip.
My arguement is that Welbeck has stepped into RVPS shoes pretty well and that RVP returning probably wont make as much difference as some are thinking. I dont think its a good idea that you just fit RVP back into the side at all costs and start benching Welbeck again. They can both play cant they?
That is a fair view before we signed Van Persie - because there is no question his signing has hurt the development of Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa - but I don't think it can apply anymore. You don't spend £180,000 for someone to sit on the bench each week.
Except RvP didn't just score goals, did he? He took all set pieces (which we scored a lot of goals from), he created lots of chances, he had lots of assists, and his build up play and creativity far outweighs that of Welbeck. Just because Welbeck has scored a few goals in his absence doesn't mean he's compensated enough for not having one of the best players in the world available. That's just silly.
I'd be up for Welbeck going to that inside left position with the added confidence of scoring a few so far this season. He has all the attributes to do well there, just seemed to lack confidence last season.
Well, no I don't think Welbeck really has stepped into his shoes. He's played well and scored the same amount of goals, albeit in more matches and when we started to play better football as a team, but all round RVP clearly offers more, there is no question. You say you don't think it's a good idea to fit RVP back at all costs....but the only cost will be to Welbeck and in the very post before this you yourself say you wouldn't start Welbeck over RVP. Yes they can play together, but then at the expense of who? That's also a different argument to the one you presented a page back.
He was only arguably the best player in the country for about 2 years. He won't have any impact once fit. Useless grey haired cnut that Robin.
RVP is an out and out world class match winner. If we can get him fit we will finish top 4
Welbeck has done a great job in covering for him, but he ain't RVP
Welbeck has done a great job in covering for him, but he ain't RVP
Be careful. You may find yourself lectured on the nuances of 10s and 9s and false 9s and midfield 3s....
Welbeck is getting a deserved run in the side up front, facilitated by RVP's injury. His form means we don't need to rush RVP back, thank god. And if the Welbz can keep his form up and even improve on it, then he will put pressure on RVP for his starting spot. That can only be good for the club.
Kind of the opposite problem to what we have in midfield, where the competition for places seems to be who can stay in the team whilst being the most inept. Valencia already ran away with that accolade on the wing.
Kind of the opposite problem to what we have in midfield, where the competition for places seems to be who can stay in the team whilst being the most inept. Valencia already ran away with that accolade on the wing.
His return will improve us. But it depends on the balance of the side. If Rooney is out, it depends on how the number 10 plays. And obviously it depends on whether Moyes keeps getting so little out of this team.
Is that a normal procedure, our players training with other clubs to get fit? Seems a bit weird.
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