Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances

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Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I think that Van Persie scored in 4 out of the last 5 games when he played close to 90 minutes. He also puts the fear factor into the hearts of opposition teams. If he were in the team recently then I fully believe that we would have picked up more points as a result of his goals. He was exactly the player that we needed when we were turning the screw on Spurs at the weekend.

As for Rooney. Main men do not do half seasons, they do full seasons by definition. 09/10 we came up short. I seem to remember that Rooney disappeared in the run in, something about shagging whores whilst his pregnant wife was at home had something to do with it if I remember correctly.

Unreliable at the top end.
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Welbeck's scored 5 goals in his last 5 Premier League games. IMO, Van Persie was missed at the start of last month. In those 5 games you mentioned, I thought he was very clinical. We definitely missed that, but Welbeck's done a very good job since then. I'm not saying we haven't missed a specific element of his game, as I believe we have missed Van Persie's composure and intelligence, but as the complete package, I don't think he has been missed. Please don't mistake this for me being pedantic... It's usually the way I think regarding players being out.

I thought you meant in general, rather than full seasons. He did well as the main man in 09/10, I believe. This could be his first season where he really shows great form in both halves, but that's a different story.
 
MoneyMay said:
Van Persie wasn't solely responsible for that. We had some players who had great seasons: Ferdinand, Carrick, Rafael, etc. IMO, missed means that we need his presence to make us function ideally/better than current form or we notice that something is lacking while he is out injured. And as far as I'm aware, neither one applies. Welbeck has come in and done a great job. Van Persie was in good - but not brilliant form - pre-injury, so it's not like we're missing out on much, plus Moyes has used him in a different role, where he is a bit higher up the field. Welbeck, on the other hand, has contributed more to the build up and has linked up well. It's going to be great to see him back, he's going to score many goals in the second half of the season if he stays fit, but we've not suffered with him out injured and it's not sincere to say that he has been missed IMO.

By the way, Theon is going to reply to the post above me because a poster disagrees with what I said, and he's still mad, despite this being a football forum.

Edit - Told you so.
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I think it's crazy to suggest that he's not being missed. Absolutely crazy. Welbecks done pretty well in a couple of games but he's not even close to rvp's level of quality.

Rvp wasn't solely responsible for our title win last season but he was arguably the main reason, giving us he cutting edge to win games when we weren't even that creative or playing all that well. And all the stats this season point to us being a hell of a lot less creative, and unable to score goals in big games and at home. A fully fit rvp would have definitely provided a lot more goalscoring threat than what we have had, and improved our ability to get over the line despite not playing very well.

And van Persie adds so much to our game. He adds a certain class and quality in forward areas, holds the ball up superbly, links up well, and scores shit loads of goals. Any team, and I mean any team, would miss a player of his quality. A united team doing would do, and a united team doing pathetically sure is.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I think it's crazy to suggest that he's not being missed. Absolutely crazy. Welbecks done pretty well in a couple of games but he's not even close to rvp's level of quality.

Rvp wasn't solely responsible for our title win last season but he was arguably the main reason, giving us he cutting edge to win games when we weren't even that creative or playing all that well. And all the stats this season point to us being a hell of a lot less creative, and unable to score goals in big games and at home. A fully fit rvp would have definitely provided a lot more goalscoring threat than what we have had, and improved our ability to get over the line despite not playing very well.

And van Persie adds so much to our game. He adds a certain class and quality in forward areas, holds the ball up superbly, links up well, and scores shit loads of goals. Any team, and I mean any team, would miss a player of his quality. A united team doing would do, and a united team doing pathetically sure is.
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It doesn't matter if he's not close to Van Persie's level though, all that is required from Welbeck is to produce goals when required and he's done that. He's also put in some great all-round performances, while maintaining himself as a goal threat. I feel that you're underrating what Welbeck has offered us in the last month. His hold-up and link-up play have been excellent and he's been involved a lot in our away fixtures. We haven't missed Van Persie in this regard. This is all being viewed with hindsight of course. When Van Persie picked up an injury against Shakhtar, I said that we would miss him as the complete package, but in reality, we haven't missed him. We have missed his composure and intelligence, but that's it. It's going to be great to have him back anyway.
 
@moneymay

I do not feel that being the 3rd best forward in the Premier League is good enough to be the main man at United. You have to be the best striker in the Premier League. Rooney is the main man at the moment and yet we sit in an unfathomably bad place. Suarez and Ozil are inspiring their teammates to new heights, Rooney just does not have that effect.

09/10 was his best season for three quarters of it. Then he disappeared, had a massive scandal in his personal life and then gave the most abject displays of his career in the World Cup for England. And that perfectly sums up Wayne Rooney's career, a very good player who has never been able to take that final step to true greatness.

He has been a great servant for United and he is one of my favourite players but he has not fulfilled his potential. I feel that this is due to his lapses in professional discipline. Something that Fergie often mentioned. This is the main reason why I do not feel that he is good enough to be the main man for United. Fergie's handling of him always suggested to me that he thought similar. If you cast your mind back to the best United team that I have seen in 2008, who was the man to get the hook in the biggest game of our season? When we were a truly great side Rooney was down the pecking order.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
@moneymay

I do not feel that being the 3rd best forward in the Premier League is good enough to be the main man at United. You have to be the best striker in the Premier League. Rooney is the main man at the moment and yet we sit in an unfathomably bad place. Suarez and Ozil are inspiring their teammates to new heights, Rooney just does not have that effect.

09/10 was his best season for three quarters of it. Then he disappeared, had a massive scandal in his personal life and then gave the most abject displays of his career in the World Cup for England. And that perfectly sums up Wayne Rooney's career, a very good player who has never been able to take that final step to true greatness.

He has been a great servant for United and he is one of my favourite players but he has not fulfilled his potential. I feel that this is due to his lapses in professional discipline. Something that Fergie often mentioned. This is the main reason why I do not feel that he is good enough to be the main man for United. Fergie's handling of him always suggested to me that he thought similar. If you cast your mind back to the best United team that I have seen in 2008, who was the man to get the hook in the biggest game of our season? When we were a truly great side Rooney was down the pecking order.
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I agree with most of that. IMO, the only season where Rooney was the main man was back in 09/10, where he was consistent in both halves of the season. In 10/11, he screwed the first half of the season up, for obvious reasons, though he made up for it in the second half. And in 11/12, he was excellent in the first half, but was sloppy in the second half (Fergie's comments post-Aston Villa game summed up Rooney's second half to the season). This season, he has done well as the "main man", but he has to show up for the second half of the season, which I think he will do. The thing is, he's not very intelligent when it comes to how he deals with his image in a professional manner and I agree that he hasn't fulfilled his potential, but I firmly believe this season he will take responsibility in the second half, as opposed to what we usually witness, and many will ask if this is the best version of Rooney we have seen.
 
I don't believe he wants to leave anyway. It was a rumour started by Lawro, with absolutely no substance. No remotely-reliable source ran with it. It was dogshit tabloids, buzzfeed, givemefootball, goal.com. All the usual bullshit outlets. Robin's a bit quiet on Twitter, but he's always retweeting United fans. Cant see him all of a sudden falling out of love with United. He looked absolutely gleaming when he arrived, and I doubt all of that was for Fergie.
 
Wasnt RVP in the team earlier in the season when United arguably looked worse than in the decent run before the Spurs game?

I feel sometimes you guys make scapegoats for poor results which change all the time, before the Norwich game it was being argued this was the best United had been playing under Moyes, and I tried to argue that I was more concerned with United after the Arsenal win run of victories.

When you do poorly you look to whos out and claim they are the reason for the poor results, but in actual fact RVP looked just as average in a lot of those games as well, admittedly poor service and isolation doesn't help though.

After the Hull game I actually thought United had looked and performed better without him and wondered whether his return would be detrimental. Not so sure now though, could be a bit of both.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Wasnt RVP in the team earlier in the season when United arguably looked worse than in the decent run before the Spurs game?

I feel sometimes you guys make scapegoats for poor results which change all the time, before the Norwich game it was being argued this was the best United had been playing under Moyes, and I tried to argue that I was more concerned with United after the Arsenal win run of victories.

When you do poorly you look to whos out and claim they are the reason for the poor results, but in actual fact RVP looked just as average in a lot of those games as well, admittedly poor service and isolation doesn't help though.

After the Hull game I actually thought United had looked and performed better without him and wondered whether his return would be detrimental. Not so sure now though, could be a bit of both.
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van Persie has been fairly average when he's played this season, and contributed little in contrast to last season.
 
Kid Cunto said:
van Persie has been fairly average when he's played this season, and contributed little in contrast to last season.
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Yep, but as I say when players are out they always seem to sudden become the miracle cure thats going to stop the slump, even though post Norwich it was Uniteds best run in the league all season.
 
I don't think he had been particularly well this season and in that sense we haven't missed him so much as Welbeck has done all right.

If VP gets back up to speed again and shows the form he is capable of, yea of course he will be massive.
 
Kid Cunto said:
van Persie has been fairly average when he's played this season, and contributed little in contrast to last season.
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Apart from scoring 10 goals and the team being unbeaten when he and Rooney played together. It shows just how good Van Persie is when that is fairly average.
 
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No idea who
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Wasnt RVP in the team earlier in the season when United arguably looked worse than in the decent run before the Spurs game?

I feel sometimes you guys make scapegoats for poor results which change all the time, before the Norwich game it was being argued this was the best United had been playing under Moyes, and I tried to argue that I was more concerned with United after the Arsenal win run of victories.

When you do poorly you look to whos out and claim they are the reason for the poor results, but in actual fact RVP looked just as average in a lot of those games as well, admittedly poor service and isolation doesn't help though.

After the Hull game I actually thought United had looked and performed better without him and wondered whether his return would be detrimental. Not so sure now though, could be a bit of both.
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10 goals and 2 assists in 13 starts is a good record by any measure so I don't think you can call him average. We definitely weren't playing any better or getting better results though. Our record in the games he started is W8 D3 L2. Our record when he hasn't started is W10 D3 L3.
 
Brwned said:
10 goals and 2 assists in 13 starts is a good record by any measure so I don't think you can call him average. We definitely weren't playing any better or getting better results though. Our record in the games he started is W8 D3 L2. Our record when he hasn't started is W10 D3 L3.
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Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
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Because for the last 20 minutes against Spurs, instead of tossing Hernandez of whom the ball was bouncing every time he made a contact, we could've thrown RVP who's far superior striker.

Just an example.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
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Eh? Because he was our top goal scorer last season and this season and arguably the best striker in our squad. He singlehandedly saved us in many games last season and we could have done with that this time as well. I dont see whats so confusing.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
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Last season he was often the player who seemed to score the critical goals for us. You also have to factor in the set piece delivery and his inclusion even if out of form usually gives us a boost as opposition defenders definitely fear him more then Welbeck/Hernandez.
 
Yeah but your record this season is better when hes not played, so why do you think it would certainly be better with him even though the evidence suggests otherwise?

Also he was arguably the best striker, he was the best striker, this season though hes nowhere near that level even when fit. Welbeck is probably a better option to promote right now, hes obviously going to be a more long term solution and actually looked really good in most of the recent games.
 
Probably us playing worse than last season could do something with his worse goal tally. Those stats don't involve who/where we've played as well, it's like saying after games to Hull, Stoke, Sunderland and CP without Rooney and winning all, then playing against L'pool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal with Rooney losing all of them that we're better off without Rooney.

Meh, plus it's like asking a Liverpool fan who'd they rather have on the bench, Suarez or Aspas. ( no disrespect to Danny or Chicharito of course, want to throw a little hyperbole here )
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
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My guess is that they are saying that because he is our best player? To have him and Rooney starting is so important to us if we want to finish top 4.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Yeah but your record this season is better when hes not played, so why do you think it would certainly be better with him even though the evidence suggests otherwise?

Also he was arguably the best striker, he was the best striker, this season though hes nowhere near that level even when fit. Welbeck is probably a better option to promote right now, hes obviously going to be a more long term solution and actually looked really good in most of the recent games.
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Welbeck over RVP? People need to get a grip. Do you want actually think we have a better chance at winning matches with Welbeck over RVP? I get that you love Welbeck, but you have to match your ambitions for the club with the players used. If you want us to play Welbeck, that's fine. But, then you can't demand that we should win the league or finish top four.
 
Kostur said:
Probably us playing worse than last season could do something with his worse goal tally. Those stats don't involve who/where we've played as well, it's like saying after games to Hull, Stoke, Sunderland and CP without Rooney and winning all, then playing against L'pool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal with Rooney losing all of them that we're better off without Rooney.

Meh, plus it's like asking a Liverpool player who'd they rather have on the bench, Suarez or Aspas. ( no disrespect to Danny or Chicharito of course, want to throw a little hyperbole here )
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Comparing Welbeck to Aspas now? :p
 
Giggsforever said:
Welbeck over RVP? People need to get a grip. Do you want actually think we have a better chance at winning matches with Welbeck over RVP? I get that you love Welbeck, but you have to match your ambitions for the club with the players used. If you want us to play Welbeck, that's fine. But, then you can't demand that we should win the league or finish top four.
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Personally I would be demanding you dont win it :p My point is Welbecks played well in RVP's absence, hes younger and going to be at the club longer in all likelyhood his promotion is probably more beneficial in the long run.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Comparing Welbeck to Aspas now? :p
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As I said, no disrespect to either of our players and hyperbole was intended.

Could've just asked who would you rather have on the bench, Victor motherfecking Moses ( who you loaned out ) or Eden Hazard.


ItsEssexRob said:
Personally I would be demanding you dont win it :p My point is Welbecks played well in RVP's absence, hes younger and going to be at the club longer in all likelyhood his promotion is probably more beneficial in the long run.
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Good point but we pretty much can't afford ourselves such luxury right now, RVP is a proven goal scorer and match winner and we're on the chase right now so.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Well there you go then, so why are people saying his absence is so badly missed?
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Mostly because we've started to pick up a bit of form recently and we expect van Persie (and the team with van Persie in it) to play better. I don't think van Persie was the reason for us playing poorly in the beginning. Of those 5 games that we didn't win, only two of them had Rooney and van Persie in the same side and those games were two draws against Southampton (last minute goal) and Chelsea. The other games were against Liverpool, Shaktar (away) and Newcastle. So if you look at it that way we probably have gotten better results with van Persie in the side if you factor in the level of the teams we played against.

With van Persie and Rooney in the same team we are a much stronger side, that's pretty much all there is to it. Now this team has a bit of confidence and has gotten rid of some the early season issues (e.g. Rio/Vidic) we'll see a more involved, more threatening van Persie. That's what most people hope and expect.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Wasnt RVP in the team earlier in the season when United arguably looked worse than in the decent run before the Spurs game?
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Yeah, it's almost as if the team under Moyes has improved as time has gone on. Who would have thought it eh?
 
Perhaps, but Im not sure his return will be the massive catalyst some expect.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I think that Van Persie scored in 4 out of the last 5 games when he played close to 90 minutes. He also puts the fear factor into the hearts of opposition teams. If he were in the team recently then I fully believe that we would have picked up more points as a result of his goals. He was exactly the player that we needed when we were turning the screw on Spurs at the weekend.

As for Rooney. Main men do not do half seasons, they do full seasons by definition. 09/10 we came up short. I seem to remember that Rooney disappeared in the run in, something about shagging whores whilst his pregnant wife was at home had something to do with it if I remember correctly.

Unreliable at the top end.
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I'm not sure you do remember correctly. Rooney disappeared because he got an injury in the quarter-final against Bayern - a game in which he scored our only goal. We then lost against Chelsea, lost against Bayern and drew with Blackburn and our season fell apart without him. He came back into the side and we won our four remaining games.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Personally I would be demanding you dont win it :p My point is Welbecks played well in RVP's absence, hes younger and going to be at the club longer in all likelyhood his promotion is probably more beneficial in the long run.
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Can see your tagline now, iiiiiidiot:p I see Your point, but we are talking about RVP, our very best player. Another thing with RVP is that he always scores against the best teams, and we need that now. There is a world of difference in class right now, and we need all the ability we can get at the moment.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Perhaps, but Im not sure his return will be the massive catalyst some expect.
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It won't. People talk as if RVP scored 30 goals out of nothing last season, but he hasn't. His finishing was great, but he wouldn't be anywhere near if we hadn't been able to feed him with decent balls, which we really struggle to do this season.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Perhaps, but Im not sure his return will be the massive catalyst some expect.
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It is not rocket science to understand that RvP is better finisher and forward than both Welbeck and Chicharito and can produce some magic moments out of nothing. Yes, his return won't mean we will start banging 4-5 each game and go on 10-15 games winning run, but he can be that guy who gives us lead or helps in couple of goals in first half which will allow us to settle in a rhythm and bring calmness. A problem for us this season has been lack of goals from whatever the number of opportunities created (sometimes few and sometimes many) but 0-0 left the team in a weird state where they were trying to get goals but left themselves open for counter, which were punished invariably.
 
I think his return can be like a huge lift to the rest of the team, earlier in the season when he was playing he was clearly carrying a knock and it impacted his game. No matter how good welbeck has been, he's far away from a fit and firing RVP, that's not even debatable.
 
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