We can question the wisdom of playing him, that's fair enough. But Moyes' comment has been spun round the usual way on here: He clearly didn't mean that he had fielded RVP simply to avoid the possible criticism. It was said in context - pretty much a statement of "fecked if I do, fecked if I don't". He played him because he thought he might win us the match - and he might have - not because he was afraid of what the papers would say.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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We can question the wisdom of playing him, that's fair enough. But Moyes' comment has been spun round the usual way on here: He clearly didn't mean that he had fielded RVP simply to avoid the possible criticism. It was said in context - pretty much a statement of "fecked if I do, fecked if I don't". He played him because he thought he might win us the match - and he might have - not because he was afraid of what the papers would say.
So we're taking anti-Moyes, biased and attention-seeking clowns like Stanger (of Football365 infamy) and Verheijen (of the years-out-of-date coaching methods repute) seriously now? Both are discredited.
Couldn't disagree more. If you play a previously injury prone player when he isn't fit (first on the weekend unfit, for the full 90) and then midweek when again he didn't look particularly fit, surely the manager is putting him at further risk of injury?
It makes absolutely no sense to reintroduce a player before he is fully fit which David Moyes has admitted himself. I think it's beyond retarded not to see this possible viewpoint.
It may well all be coincidental but the goody goody folk who can't say a bad word will jump on anyone who might have a look at all the plausible facts.
Time for Fellaini to shine
I tell you. I said it last week. Fellaini is going to play further forward for us in the coming weeks. We'll be hoofing it up to him!
That dutch fella on twitter gonna have a field day
Exactly. Just wasn't handled correctly. It may have happened even if he didn't play vs Newcastle but it looks so badly handled at it's incredibly annoying.
If, as a result of this and the inevitable annual slump in Rooney's form occurs, we play Fellaini up top and start lobbing it into him, I will laugh...
It will be a sad and miserable laugh, but a laugh nonetheless
It will be a sad and miserable laugh, but a laugh nonetheless
Ah well, as long as he's good and ready to go in March when the CL starts again. We aint't winning the PL anyway. Top four you say? Well, we should manage that without RvP. Not that we will mind you.
The press and half of out fans will go into meltdown now.
Wrong for Moyes to play him when not fit, he took a gamble and it did not come off.
Wrong for Moyes to play him when not fit, he took a gamble and it did not come off.
Players don't get fit after injury unless they play. A player coming back from an injury will always look unfit, and there is always a risk of a reoccurrence of any injury. If RVP didn't feel fit enough to play he wouldn't have played. This whole "forcing him back early" guff gets overstated. He was obviously over the injury or he wouldn't have played, he just wasn't match sharp.
He suffered a muscle injury, where he tweaked a muscle striking a ball. That can happen to any player at any time, and RVP has always been prone to it. Why are we taking some gonk Dutch physio and his ramblings at face value? He said the same shite last season.
The fact that the go to response on here to a player suffering an injury is to rush and blame the manager and his staff is absolutely pathetic. I genuinely hate this place at times.
As for goody goody folk, that hardly applies to me with regards to Moyes. My doubts about him are on here for all to see, I'm just not a gimp who is looking to blame him for every little thing. Players get injured, that's part of sport. The need to find someone to blame is fecking stupid.
And if it had paid off, he'd get precious little credit from such reactionary critics.
correct, dammed for trying and dammed for getting it wrong, he cant win
Players don't get match fit unless they're physically fit. Reading between the lines, Moyesy panicked because of the Rooney suspension. Most players are retarded enough to play through an injury (well the likes of Nani aside who enjoy rolling around pretending to be injured), so I wouldn't take van Persie's willingness to play as a sign that he was fit to play. He's probably as pissed off as anyone at being in a mid-table team as things stand and fancies repairing it.
The 'gonk Duth physio'...not sure where I personally mentioned I agreed with him and his ramblings...so that one doesn't apply to me.
I'll get my violin.
I like.
Ah well, at least this can be used as a good excuse by many over the next few weeks, probably months as well.
If he hadn't played RVP because he wasn't fit, no one would have batted an eye. He'd been out for a while and wasn't expected to be in the team. Rushing RVP back to save his ass was a stupid, short-sighted move.
His job will always be questioned on judgement calls like this. So far I don't think he's managed to get one right. It is a concern regardless of the constant 'one way or the other' decisions'.
Sure it possibly could've gone either way but it didn't...if anything it made a minor problem a major problem and I don't see why it's so bad to judge that? That was Moyes' judgement call and it's possibly had more long-term affects.
There's giving a play half an hour, or maybe a half to get back into the swing of things which I would've understood, but starting an unfit van Persie because he seemed to have shit himself after the Rooney suspension, isn't going to go down well and I don't think it's bad of people to talk about it.
I like.
Ah well, at least this can be used as a good excuse by many over the next few weeks, probably months as well.
Player who has a history of sustaining muscle injuries is "overtrained" (Moyes' word) in pre-season a few days before sustaining a groin strain which has been recurring ever since. The player also plays a full 90 minutes despite being nowhere near fit following almost a month out with said groin injury (he had one full day of training in that month...) before then re-injuring his groin once again a few days later. It's not like this is an isolated incident, Carrick played against Arsenal despite being injured and he's now out for six weeks. The idea that "oh, he didn't get injured in the Newcastle game therefore it had no impact on him getting injured against Donetsk" seems a touch naive to me. Anyway, it's done now, let's hope Shinji can finally show why he has such aggressive groupies.
Absolute massive opportunity for both Kagawa and Hernandez. It's not exactly ideal losing Van Persie for a month but both these guys should be getting a chance with him out, big opportunity for both to stake a claim.
Players do fitness tests before they play. The fitness staff won't let them play unless they're fit enough. This whole "he's been rushed back" is mostly bollocks. He was training during the week.
I noticed not one single person on here questioning his selection at the weekend, it was all "yay, RVP is back" when they saw the picture of him getting off the coach. It's just another stick to beat Moyes with, and it's getting fecking tiresome.
I noticed not one single person on here questioning his selection at the weekend, it was all "yay, RVP is back" when they saw the picture of him getting off the coach. It's just another stick to beat Moyes with, and it's getting fecking tiresome.
Exactly...most people weren't expecting him to be back for that game anyway. It'd be like him bringing Carrick back on Sunday, as of now we wouldn't expect it because there have been no updates. Didn't Moyes publicly (re: rvp) go from he'll be back for the next game to we don't know when he'll be fit?
RVP wouldn't agree to play if he wasn't feeling as if he could play. It's not as if Moyes has told RVP "I don't care that you're injured, you're playing!".
I think it was against Newcastle in which the camera recorded Moyes asking Van Persie if he's OK to carry on - RVP clearly agreed, so it's fecking stupid to put the blame on Moyes.
All in all, Van Persie knows his body best and he clearly thought it was worth taking the chance.
I think it was against Newcastle in which the camera recorded Moyes asking Van Persie if he's OK to carry on - RVP clearly agreed, so it's fecking stupid to put the blame on Moyes.
All in all, Van Persie knows his body best and he clearly thought it was worth taking the chance.
He's out with a thigh injury, you fecking idiot, not a reoccurrence of his groin injury.
Sounds like we need to amend that old "can't tell your arse from you elbow" adage.
Who is this Dutch physio we are talking about? Am i missing something here?
That was before it was blatantly obvious that he was unfit while he was on the pitch.
He barely kept up with the game against Newcastle. The man passed his little fitness test and was massively fit.
Michael Carrick had a pain killing injection to play with an achilles problem vs Arsenal, was he fit? No he was patched up to give us 50% of himself because without that we'd have definitely lost. (The difference he being he needed surgery to correct the problem rather than a variety of muscular issues that RVP has had this season).
Michael Carrick had a pain killing injection to play with an achilles problem vs Arsenal, was he fit? No he was patched up to give us 50% of himself because without that we'd have definitely lost. (The difference he being he needed surgery to correct the problem rather than a variety of muscular issues that RVP has had this season).
Whatever way you try to butter it up, RVP's latest injury is a lethal blow to whatever recovery we were going to make.
If I had to pick a run of games for him to be out for a month I'd take this one. We'll be fine !
Aaaaaaaannnd......aaaaaaalways look on the bright side of life......
Aaaaaaaannnd......aaaaaaalways look on the bright side of life......
Right, without wanting to create the same number of alerts as last night, this is my view.
Robin van Persie is now injury prone. He never used to be, but he now is.
The beginning of this saga was at Arsenal. Let's not forget the time at which RVP started coming into the Arsenal team - it was just as we were dismantling the Invincibles squad and heading for a period of austerity as the Emirates stadium was being built. This is relevant because funds were never available to create a forward line with depth for whenever injuries occurred.
Therefore, whenever anyone important to our team got injured(Fabregas, RVP, Gallas, Sagna etc), they were always rushed back into the team as soon as physically possible. This often resulted in follow up injuries sustained as a consequence of not being fit when they came back.
It is important to mention though that RVP's injuries at the start of his career were not caused by some kind of internal weakness. He didn't have a dodgy knee, or a weak ankle, or anything of that ilk. He just got unlucky. He would get stamped on, he'd twist his ankle on a bad pitch, etc.
It was the reaction we had towards those injuries that made him injury prone. Endlessly being rushed back to play and often being on the field for 90 minutes at a time even when 5-0 up caused this problem.
It was only when Wenger actually tried to manage him better in his final season with us that he didn't get injured. He did fewer training sessions than everyone else, and then I believe Ferguson took that on, from what I've seen reported.
Moyes, in his desperation for his best players to be fit to get you out of trouble, rushed RVP back from his latest problem. Now you're paying the price of that, but I don't believe it'll happen again.
Robin van Persie is now injury prone. He never used to be, but he now is.
The beginning of this saga was at Arsenal. Let's not forget the time at which RVP started coming into the Arsenal team - it was just as we were dismantling the Invincibles squad and heading for a period of austerity as the Emirates stadium was being built. This is relevant because funds were never available to create a forward line with depth for whenever injuries occurred.
Therefore, whenever anyone important to our team got injured(Fabregas, RVP, Gallas, Sagna etc), they were always rushed back into the team as soon as physically possible. This often resulted in follow up injuries sustained as a consequence of not being fit when they came back.
It is important to mention though that RVP's injuries at the start of his career were not caused by some kind of internal weakness. He didn't have a dodgy knee, or a weak ankle, or anything of that ilk. He just got unlucky. He would get stamped on, he'd twist his ankle on a bad pitch, etc.
It was the reaction we had towards those injuries that made him injury prone. Endlessly being rushed back to play and often being on the field for 90 minutes at a time even when 5-0 up caused this problem.
It was only when Wenger actually tried to manage him better in his final season with us that he didn't get injured. He did fewer training sessions than everyone else, and then I believe Ferguson took that on, from what I've seen reported.
Moyes, in his desperation for his best players to be fit to get you out of trouble, rushed RVP back from his latest problem. Now you're paying the price of that, but I don't believe it'll happen again.
Nooooooo you fecking moron, he was 100% fit to play. He passed fitness tests and said he was okay to carry on in the heat of the moment when weren't winning a home game. It's just a coincidence.
He was still fit enough to play, or else, you know, he wouldn't have played.
Do you think any player is ever 100% fit? They all play with knocks or tweaks. It's part of being a professional athlete.
If he'd had a reoccurrence of his original injury there might be a point to be made here, but he injured an entirely different muscle. It smacks of looking for things to blame Moyes on, and it's absolutely pathetic.
As much as I feel like a right numpty now, being rushed back from one injury can lead to aggravating another, and he was definitely not fit against Newcastle. And not being able to tell your arse from your elbow is far stupider than not being able to tell your groin from your thigh, so no, I don't think it does need amending.
Oh, and as for the "Van Persie was fit enough to play otherwise he wouldn't have played" argument, see Rooney against Bayern.
Who said 100% fit, you dickhead?
Is sustaining a thigh injury after recovering from a groin injury a coincidence? Probably, yeah.
He hasn't had issues with his thigh between Tuesday and the start of pre-season. It's just that groin right? Being unfit only means you can re-injure the same area of your body that was previously injured.
Top players are rushed back at all top clubs, unfortunately we're going to have more grievances when it has long-terms affects on ours because we don't have a wide range of them here.
So a player injures his thigh muscle by twisting himself striking a ball and your first thought is "must be something to do with his old groin injury"?
All players play with knocks. If they only played when they were 100% fit then there'd be nobody out there. Have any of you played football at all? I played at a very low level and if I only played when I was 100% fit to play I'd never have played. Having knocks and tweaks and playing is part of playing sport, any sport. It's stunning how few of you seem to know that.
Why are you making stuff up? Who said he was "100% fit to play"?Why are you swearing at everyone who disagrees with you?
If you disagree with me disagree with what I've actually said, instead of making up what I've said to try and be a smart arse. It doesn't suit you.
So why the rush to blame Moyes and his coaching staff for something that happens with all players at all clubs the world over?
It's not about being 100% fit to play, it's about being in a situation where playing would help him get back to fitness as opposed to risking another injury.
You've got to make a call on it. This time Moyes was wrong - next time he'll be more cautious.
He rushed him back after the Everton defeat in a hope that he could bounce straight back with a win, gamble he felt he had to take.
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