Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances

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alastair said:
I think he made the right decision to leave us, actually. I know that doesn't suit your argument, but still.

You know what, I think RVP did believe it. It's not like anyone really saw Ferguson's retirement coming last summer. Maybe RVP thought he'd get at least three seasons with him.

And without attempting to be a behavioural expert, it's clear he's not happy with something right now. What that is isn't clear.
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Common sense would suggest that it's because he's been injured and as a team we're playing like freshly squeezed shit.
 
alastair said:
I think he made the right decision to leave us, actually. I know that doesn't suit your argument, but still.

You know what, I think RVP did believe it. It's not like anyone really saw Ferguson's retirement coming last summer. Maybe RVP thought he'd get at least three seasons with him.

And without attempting to be a behavioural expert, it's clear he's not happy with something right now. What that is isn't clear.
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Just a guess, but it might be being injured and henceforth his patchy involvement with the team, and subsequent poor results.

It's not rocket science.

It doesn't mean he's plotting an escape or leading a revolt. It just means he wants to be fit, playing, scoring and winning. He never looks unhappy when this is the case, as you know from when we beat you.

If he can get back fit and scoring, with United winning matches as a result, all this daft bollocks will cease again... until we lose a game and he plays poorly, and shock horror, doesn't look happy, then we can go back to talking about how he wants to smother Moyes in his sleep and sign for Liverpool.
 
alastair said:
I think he made the right decision to leave us, actually. I know that doesn't suit your argument, but still.

You know what, I think RVP did believe it. It's not like anyone really saw Ferguson's retirement coming last summer. Maybe RVP thought he'd get at least three seasons with him.

And without attempting to be a behavioural expert, it's clear he's not happy with something right now. What that is isn't clear.
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Ferguson especially. He had no plans to retire. He may have told RVP he'd be there for a few more yeaes, but that doesn't make it a lie. He didn't plan it.
 
alastair said:
Obviously his wife's sisters death may have had something to do with it too, and I respect that, but the points I'm making are more about further evidence that he wasn't intending to go on until the end of RVP's deal.

As I say, it's been reported that he was planning to leave until City snatched the league away from him. I can believe that.

75 would have been a stretch, but if he told RVP he really had no intention to resign, and promised him, then I can see RVP, who was desperate to leave, taking that chance.
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Wait, I thought that was a facht. So you were lying earlier?
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Yeah but we know the way he wants success, I really think he doesnt like those kind of situations Arsenal were and United are now in. I think he'll stick with United though, he would look a right twat if he didnt.
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Maybe but he stuck at Arsenal for many years in a hopeless situation and so he has previous for sticking at it.I think he'll be fine and I think he's more pissed off with the situation in general.The poor start and the injuries have only added to his fear of not playing under SAF but he'll be fine.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Just a guess, but it might be being injured and henceforth his patchy involvement with the team, and subsequent poor results.

It's not rocket science.

It doesn't mean he's plotting an escape or leading a revolt. It just means he wants to be fit, playing, scoring and winning. He never looks unhappy when this is the case, as you know from when we beat you.

If he can get back fit and scoring, with United winning matches as a result, all this daft bollocks will cease again... until we lose a game and he plays poorly, and shock horror, doesn't look happy, then we can go back to talking about how he wants to smother Moyes in his sleep and sign for Liverpool.
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Yes, he wants to be winning. This is precisely my point.

Playing for a side in transition after the manager he came to play for left after one season is not what he came to do.

Now, RVP is so good he might help you win things even despite the problems with the rest of the squad, but having carried us for a season, it's probably the last thing he wants.
 
alastair said:
Come on.

In the very short term, you need two good midfielders.

In the summer, you'll need a left back. Ferdinand will go as well. Rooney's future is up in the air.

That's just your problems in the next six months. Will RVP want to stick around for this transition?
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We need one, maybe 2 midfielders.

Ferdinand is a bit-part player. With the set of centre halves at the club, no need to replace him.

Evra is leaving? If he is, there are plenty of left backs out there up for grabs that would be like-for-like replacements.

Rooney and van Persie are just speculation. You can't claim a club needs rebuilding just because some players might or might not leave.

You can use the same arguments about Arsenal.
 
alastair said:
Obviously his wife's sisters death may have had something to do with it too, and I respect that, but the points I'm making are more about further evidence that he wasn't intending to go on until the end of RVP's deal.

As I say, it's been reported that he was planning to leave until City snatched the league away from him. I can believe that.

75 would have been a stretch, but if he told RVP he really had no intention to resign, and promised him, then I can see RVP, who was desperate to leave, taking that chance.
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May have had? And you respect that? If you respect that, stop fecking questioning it and insisting that he lied about it all, with the insinuation that he used his wifes death as an excuse.

It's a very arsey way to make whatever silly point you're trying to make.
 
alastair said:
Yes, he wants to be winning. This is precisely my point.

Playing for a side in transition after the manager he came to play for left after one season is not what he came to do.

Now, RVP is so good he might help you win things even despite the problems with the rest of the squad, but having carried us for a season, it's probably the last thing he wants.
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Where is he going to go? What clubs guarantees him success?

Not a problem for United anyhow, yhe way I see it. If he goes, we get a big fat cheque for a 30-year old who has been here for 5 minutes.
 
The Neviller said:
May have had? And you respect that? If you respect that, stop fecking questioning it and insisting that he lied about it all, with the insinuation that he used his wifes death as an excuse.

It's a very arsey way to make whatever silly point you're trying to make.
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To be fair, I never implied that in the slightest. You brought it up, not me. I never said the death didn't play a role in his decision.

My point was that there were loads of other factors that hinted at his departure before the expiry of the RVP deal.

I mean, SAF basically apologised to him after he went. He clearly feels some level of guilt.
 
alastair said:
So what was Ferguson's plan, do you think?
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To so what he said he would do, go on for as long as he felt well enough to do it.

This is all because you can't bear the thought of RVP leaving you without the promise of Ferguson staying. He wouldn't have just come to United without Ferguson lying to convince him.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Where is he going to go? What clubs guarantees him success?

Not a problem for United anyhow, yhe way I see it. If he goes, we get a big fat cheque for a 30-year old who has been here for 5 minutes.
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No club, but he probably should have gone to City.

And there's no money in RVP now. You just need to assure him he's at the right place. Maybe make him captain.
 
alastair said:
Yes, he wants to be winning. This is precisely my point.

Playing for a side in transition after the manager he came to play for left after one season is not what he came to do.

Now, RVP is so good he might help you win things even despite the problems with the rest of the squad, but having carried us for a season, it's probably the last thing he wants.
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If he wants easy street, he's at the wrong club in the wrong league. He should be at Paris or in Spain.

He's far from carrying United right now so he can't really complain about being too good for us. And his terrible burden will be greatly lessened with a couple of smart signings.
 
alastair said:
To be fair, I never implied that in the slightest. You brought it up, not me. I never said the death didn't play a role in his decision.

My point was that there were loads of other factors that hinted at his departure before the expiry of the RVP deal.

I mean, SAF basically apologised to him after he went. He clearly feels some level of guilt.
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You accused him of lying, Alastair. If he lied about when he would retire when he had plans to all along then be must be fecking psycic to know his wifes sister would die and give him an excuse.

So, either he had no plans to retire and the death brought it on.

Or

He had plans to retire and fortunately the death popped up and be took his chance and blamed it all on his wife and her needs.

Which are you suggesting happened? He can feel bad about not staying to work with RVP longer without having lied to him. Doing something you said you had no plans to do doesn't automatically mean you lied, circumstancea change. Which part of this do you not understand?
 
The Neviller said:
To so what he said he would do, go on for as long as he felt well enough to do it.

This is all because you can't bear the thought of RVP leaving you without the promise of Ferguson staying. He wouldn't have just come to United without Ferguson lying to convince him.
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I think you're inventing the woe I feel at this. I don't cry myself to sleep at night over it. We don't all take football so seriously we applaud the television at random intervals.

Players like RVP have choices, and he'd have taken the best one presented to him.

Man United with Ferguson was probably his best one.

Man United with Moyes after the first season probably wasn't.
 
alastair said:
No club, but he probably should have gone to City.

And there's no money in RVP now. You just need to assure him he's at the right place. Maybe make him captain.
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alastair said:
No club, but he probably should have gone to City.

And there's no money in RVP now. You just need to assure him he's at the right place. Maybe make him captain.
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City are having a fab season so far, haven't they....?

If there is no money in him, we won't sell him. As easy as that.
 
alastair said:
No club, but he probably should have gone to City.

And there's no money in RVP now. You just need to assure him he's at the right place. Maybe make him captain.
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Because Mancini - Pellegrini is a step up from Ferguson - Moyes, right?

And of course, Man City are a massive club, that's why they steal all your players.
 
The Neviller said:
You accused him of lying, Alastair. If he lied about when he would retire when he had plans to all along then be must be fecking psycic to know his wifes sister would die and give him an excuse.

So, either he had no plans to retire and the death brought it on.

Or

He had plans to retire and fortunately the death popped up and be took his chance and blamed it all on his wife and her needs.

Which are you suggesting happened? He can feel bad about not staying to work with RVP longer without having lied to him. Doing something you said you had no plans to do doesn't automatically mean you lied, circumstancea change. Which part of this do you not understand?
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You're massively missing my point, and trying to accuse me of not caring about the death he had to contend with, which I've already refuted.

The reason I said he lied was because I don't believe there was any way he was intending to be there 'til the age of 75. You still haven't been able to contradict the point that he was planning to go before City won the title back.

Last year was clearly his final hurrah. Clear as day.

Circumstances do change. The death might have contributed to his decision, but there is evidence out there that it was one of a variety of factors.
 
alastair said:
I think you're inventing the woe I feel at this. I don't cry myself to sleep at night over it. We don't all take football so seriously we applaud the television at random intervals.

Players like RVP have choices, and he'd have taken the best one presented to him.

Man United with Ferguson was probably his best one.

Man United with Moyes after the first season probably wasn't.
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And where is the lie? Are you going to admit that was just you being a cnut?
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Seems pretty logical if you ask me, hes not exactly going to be at the top level for that many more years is he?

Drogbas and Ibras are hard to come by these days.
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If he was their age then I would agree with you, but he's 2 years younger than Ibrahimovic and 5 years younger than Drogba. Players don't suddenly decline when they reach 30. He's also an excellent player who doesn't necessarily rely on pace, much like the two players mentioned. So I would be surprised of he didn't have another 3-4 years very good service in him, at least (barring serious injury of course).
 
alastair said:
I think you're inventing the woe I feel at this. I don't cry myself to sleep at night over it. We don't all take football so seriously we applaud the television at random intervals.

Players like RVP have choices, and he'd have taken the best one presented to him.

Man United with Ferguson was probably his best one.

Man United with Moyes after the first season probably wasn't.
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I would not be surprised to see Moyes win the league before Wenger wins it again.

Would you?
 
alastair said:
You're massively missing my point, and trying to accuse me of not caring about the death he had to contend with, which I've already refuted.

The reason I said he lied was because I don't believe there was any way he was intending to be there 'til the age of 75. You still haven't been able to contradict the point that he was planning to go before City won the title back.

Last year was clearly his final hurrah. Clear as day.

Circumstances do change. The death might have contributed to his decision, but there is evidence out there that it was one of a variety of factors.
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Sorry, but how does that make him a liar?

Have I missed something?

Where did Ferguson say he would continue until 75?

Trying to separate al fantasy from reality here...
 
alastair said:
You're massively missing my point, and trying to accuse me of not caring about the death he had to contend with, which I've already refuted.

The reason I said he lied was because I don't believe there was any way he was intending to be there 'til the age of 75. You still haven't been able to contradict the point that he was planning to go before City won the title back.

Last year was clearly his final hurrah. Clear as day.

Circumstances do change. The death might have contributed to his decision, but there is evidence out there that it was one of a variety of factors.
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You've made this "til the age of 75" thing up though. Who said it? Where and when? You've plucked it out of your arse and invented a scenario around it where Ferguson definitely told RVP this when he had no intention of doing so, and his actual retirement and reasons behind are irrespective because he'd already lied anyway.

Contradict the point he was going to retire if City hadn't won the league? What point? Who said it? What evidence?
 
The Neviller said:
You've made this "til the age of 75" thing up though. Who said it? Where and when? You've plucked it out of your arse and invented a scenario around it where Ferguson definitely told RVP this when he had no intention of doing so, and his actual retirement and reasons behind are irrespective because he'd already lied anyway.

Contradict the point he was going to retire if City hadn't won the league? What point? Who said it? What evidence?
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The age of 75 is the length of RVP's contract.

My point is so incredibly simple, and has not yet been refuted.

Why on earth would a player who was seeking to avoid spending the best years of his career at a club that couldn't win the league then proceed to join a club who were about to lose their greatest ever manager after one season?

This is a guy with options. Not just United. There were better moves.
 
Brophs said:
My guess is you'll get knocked out of the CL in the first knockout round and have a clear(er) run to the title this season. I'm starting to think you're going to do it.
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I think it is all set up for City to walk the league in the end.
 
alastair said:
Jesus, some of you are properly militant about this.

My original point was quite simple, but people are trying to put words into my mouth here.
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You're doing it yourself. You've invented a scenario that I think you now believe in your own head happened, and can't separate from the truth.

You're accusing someone of standing in front of millions and telling the world that he retired because of what his wife was going through when it was all bullshit, he'd lied to RVP and had no intention of going on any longer. And you think fans of the club he has misled won't call you out on it.
 
Brophs said:
My guess is you'll get knocked out of the CL in the first knockout round and have a clear(er) run to the title this season. I'm starting to think you're going to do it.
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I'll be clearer on it after the next two league games. No-one's winning a title if you can't beat any of the top sides at any point.
 
The Neviller said:
You're doing it yourself. You've invented a scenario that I think you now believe in your own head happened, and can't separate from the truth.

You're accusing someone of standing in front of millions and telling the world that he retired because of what his wife was going through when it was all bullshit, he'd lied to RVP and had no intention of going on any longer. And you think fans of the club he has misled won't call you out on it.
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I said it was one of many factors.

You haven't explained why SAF apologised.
 
alastair said:
The age of 75 is the length of RVP's contract.

My point is so incredibly simple, and has not yet been refuted.

Why on earth would a player who was seeking to avoid spending the best years of his career at a club that couldn't win the league then proceed to join a club who were about to lose their greatest ever manager after one season?

This is a guy with options. Not just United. There were better moves.
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It matters not a feck how long his contract is. You've made this up that he told RVP he'd be there for the duration of his contract when he'd no intention to. Where has this ever been stated apart from in this thread by you?

Honestly, am I seriously having this discussion with an adult about a made up promise and the lie wrapped up in it? This is epically retarded stuff Alastair.
 
alastair said:
The age of 75 is the length of RVP's contract.

My point is so incredibly simple, and has not yet been refuted.

Why on earth would a player who was seeking to avoid spending the best years of his career at a club that couldn't win the league then proceed to join a club who were about to lose their greatest ever manager after one season?

This is a guy with options. Not just United. There were better moves.
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But what has that got to do with Ferguson lying?

Your thoughts read like mentally challenged fan fiction.

Ferguson is a liar because RvP's contract.

Well done.
 
alastair said:
I said it was one of many factors.

You haven't explained why SAF apologised.
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I was at the Fergie talk in Dublin and he explained that. He said RvP asked him prior to signing whether he was going anywhere in the next few years. Fergie said no, as he says he genuinely believed that, and once it became apparent that things had changed he explained his reasons and apologised.
 
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