Stay or leave, I couldn't care less! Thanks for the advice though, can I suggest you follow it too?
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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Stay or leave, I couldn't care less! Thanks for the advice though, can I suggest you follow it too?
No but Welbeck isnt an out and out striker type of player, or at least he doesn;t come off as one.
Welbecks a good player, but hes not exactly a top class one, whereas RVP is so when RVP is missing these chances and not scoring people are going to scratch their heads and wonder why, especially given his form in the first 60% of the season.
Whereas Welbecks goal return has been woeful, and has never been phenomenal so he is generally more accepted as a creator or being involved in the build up play. I think its ridiculous to lay the blame at RVP for going out of these cups, or get angry with him, but I think its equally as so to say hes not in poor form.
Weren't there posters comparing him to Ronaldo already?
Yes, I'll make sure not to force my opinion on other people.
I'm not sure what that's got to do with the price of fish. With players like Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov and van Persie we've gotten used to judging strikers off of their goal return and their all-round play because none of them are natural/pure goalscorers. They all contribute a lot to the build-up. I think van Persie's all round play has been good. His hold up play's been good (rather than excellent), his passing's generally been very good, his movement's been very good but his finishing has been poor with the few chances he's been given. Not a big problem for me.
Assuming you're correct, the score would've been 2-2 which would've been better for United than the actual 1-1.
The truth is we don't know how the whole tie would've played out if RVP had scored in Madrid. However, the fact remains that as one of the best strikers in the world he should've scored. The fact that he didn't, coupled with the fact that he hasn't scored for us in a while, signals bad form for someone considered one of the best around.
We definitely had a better chance of winning this tie at OT. Despite that, we had a clear opportunity to at least go to extra time today. RVP failed to take the opportunity and we were knocked out.
I'm not only laying the blame at RVP's feet since our whole team was pretty average at best today. Having said that, I'd expect a player of RVP's calibre to have put away the chance and the poor display from others doesn't excuse that fact.
I don't think he's in poor form, the rest of his game is fine, just the finishing has let him down recently. I just think it's pretty harsh to lay the blame at the feet of RVP when he's only had one good chance in both respective games, it happens though. I just think we all have very high expectations of RVP.
To put a tie down to one missed chance - not to mention it was in the first leg, in which we got a good result - is silly.
Yeah, Van Persie's lost some confidence in front of goal. It happens. The fact we seems to struggle to find other sources of goals despite having quite a few people score during the season is a wonder.
Yeah, Van Persie's lost some confidence in front of goal. It happens. The fact we seems to struggle to find other sources of goals despite having quite a few people score during the season is a wonder.
So if he scores today at the end the game doesn't go to extra time?
Not only have I explained the comments about 3 times, but I think it's bizarre how immune from criticism RVP has been lately. He's missed chances that other strikers would have been crucified for and been roundly defended for it.
Why is it so hard to say RVP could have done better, when he could have done better (and I really wouldn't doubt him coming out and being very honest about how he feels like he could've/should've too, because thats the type of person he is).
Van Persie came on at 61 minutes, to say he cost us the game is ridiculous. Did he miss a chance that could have seen us go into extra time, yes, but is he solely responsible for us losing the match? No of course he isn't.
It's time to get these bad boys out in the Stretford End for him.
I would prefer him to start today really with Hernandez coming on as a sub. We have no CL games left, why not start our best striker especially when Rooney is out?
Of course he's not solely responsible, but its simply the case that had he scored a chance that we could all have reasonably expected him to have done we would still have been in the FA Cup.
Any debate as to why we were in that position to need him to score chances like that is for another time, but the simple fact of the matter is we paid £24m for him to make the difference at times like that and he's let us down today, and did arguably against Madrid as well.
Well, if he's not solely responsible then you shouldn't say things like
NinjaFletch said:
As it definitely looks like you think that he is solely responsible.
No, it's just a statement of fact that if he'd have scored that chance we'd still have been in. Why that wording is so offensive I don't know.
Had he not scored that brilliant last minute goal at Upton Park, we would not be having this conversation.
Well, no, he didn't knock us out of the FA Cup at all. That's entirely different. He missed a chance that could have seen us go into extra time after being brought on with 30 minutes to go, that's hardly the same as the above statement at all.
...Or even winning the title.
Im a rival yet I can see why the wording is 'offensive' you word it as such to lay the blame for the defeat with RVP, as though he got sent off for stupidity or intentionally scored an own goal. He missed a fairly easy chance, he could have saved you but he didn;t knock you out, Ba did.
RVP is untouchable this season imo, we can all complain next year if he is shit but he's pretty much won us the title year so we have no right to complain if his form tails off. Pretty much the only player's who's form haven't tailed off at some point are Rafael and Carrick.
RvP's signing has been one of the key reasons why we've had such a good season. Stop focusing on a a few missed chances.
Apart from contributing to us streaking away with the title, all of those goals, the brilliant build up and hold up play, the fantastic attitude he's brought to the club and the fact that he's reportedly great with the young players, what exactly has he done for us lately?
Then again, had Hazard not missed an easy chance it would have been 2-0 and game over. All ifs and buts.
that nonsense quickly died down.
Disagree, you're quibbling over a point of language whilst agreeing with the broader contention that his failure to score when he was expected to cost us.
It was clearly prefaced, too, with an acknowledgement that he has been vital to the likely league victory and that any criticism of him should be made in light of that.
I find it hard to believe that RVP himself will be particularly happy with his contribution for United in the cups this season, goal against West Ham aside, and given the money we spent for him and the player that he is I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to have done better today.
Of course RVP can't be expected to produce miracles, but he is a better player than missing chances like that and he's getting off lightly if he's not going to be criticised for it: Welbeck, Hernandez or even Rooney would be crucified for it.
Of course he'd be disappointed with the miss. I would be! Players get criticised if they're consistently making mistakes or having bad games. RvP has been consistently good.
What? I'm not agreeing with you or the broader contention at all. It's not quibbling over a point of language either. You say Van Persie knocked us out of the FA Cup. I completely disagree, he missed a chance, Chelsea and Ba knocked us out of the FA Cup. Were there not other chances in the game, or before he was even involved? Or was it just down to the chance Van Persie had? Because that's exactly what you're saying otherwise. You are placing the blame of our exit on one person, a player who wasn't even involved in the first hour of the match.
He is in poor goalscoring form, by exceptionally high standards.
We should have done better across the board, we deserved to get knocked out and it wasn't down to RvP missing a chance.
Hopefully he can get his goalscoring boots back on for City, finish the season with a flourish and enjoy his first league title. He fully deserves to.
We should have done better across the board, we deserved to get knocked out and it wasn't down to RvP missing a chance.
Hopefully he can get his goalscoring boots back on for City, finish the season with a flourish and enjoy his first league title. He fully deserves to.
So he didn't have the best chance to equalise, which he should have taken, that his failure to do resulted in our exit?
Wouldn't back him to hit Anderson's arse in the form he's in at the moment.
Most constructive criticism of players is pointless, but it's especially pointless to criticise for missing chances. What do you suggest he does differently?
Players go through phases of missing chances. A lot of the time it's not even related to form or confidence, it's just randomness. But humans look for patterns in the noise - I can roll a 6 on a fair die three times in a row and some people would say it's on a run of good form. They're called pundits.
Saying that, unlike a die we don't know RVP's true ability precisely. In my opinion, he's somewhere in between his recent "form" and early-season "form".
Score.
I'm not for a second saying he's missed on purpose, but there is a failure on his part somewhere that has caused him to get his body in the wrong posistion, get his technique wrong and blast it over.
Your dice analogy is terrible, btw.
Actually, Van Persie went on a run of very poor luck at the start of the season where he was doing everything right and was denied by the bar or post 4 or 5 times, that was where he was unlucky. Today, and some of the other sitters his missed recently, haven't had anything to do with luck they've just been poor from a player as good as him.
Quite
You could blame Sir Alex for his team selection, defenders for letting the goal in, midfielders/wingers not creating chances. Alternatively, you could say Chelsea deserved their win based on performances over 2 games.
As is your attempt at coaching!
So he still didn't knock you out.
For one even if we take it at face value, at 1-1 that doesn't mean you would definiteley progress, and not at face value, he may not have saved you from going out but thats not the same as knocking you out, that can only be attributed to someone who actually initiates the action to knock you out, not the one who misses a chance to save you going out. If Welbeck had missed a sitter too who would have knocked you out then? Welbeck and RVP? It makes no sense. Thats why people are taking exception to your term.
So technique is irrelevant in goal scoring?
Or should I be putting money on Gabby Abonglahor to go on a good run of scoring form, because he's been a bit shit for ever and probably deserves this luck that apparently every top player ever has had?
This argument is cyclical and now just constitutes how far you want to go with the term 'knocked us out'.
If the point that RVP's failure to score the best chance we had which would have kept us in the FA Cup (if only for 30 minutes) is controversial then I give up, it seems like common sense to me, but whatever.
I do understand what you were trying to say but I assure you its completely inaccurate to say 'RVP knocked us out'
'Not saving you from going out' and 'knocking you out' are not the same thing.
I can also totally see why the other Caffers took offence to your suggestion.
For me, someones action (or lack of) resulting in us exiting a competition could easily constitute knocking us out, if others aren't comfortable with that terminology fine, but much of this argument is purely linguistic.
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