What criteria are you using? Seems important to establish.
Robin van Persie | 2012-14 Performances
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What criteria are you using? Seems important to establish.
I love RvP. I really do. He's become one of my favourite United players so fast.
But to compare him with Ronaldo? Really? Maybe at the end of the season if RvP is instrumental in us winning the title and carries us past Madrid we can talk about this..
But to compare him with Ronaldo? Really? Maybe at the end of the season if RvP is instrumental in us winning the title and carries us past Madrid we can talk about this..
Nope Iniesta more than shades Lampard at international level more like night and day to be fair.
How ironic! i rate the adexkola before that admission far higher than the current one!!
Lampard puts Iniesta in the shade when he stands near him. He puts most in the shade to be fair.
I read somewhere that if Suarez had played for United instead of RvP we would have been even better....
"Sneaking in just ahead of the impressive Robin Van Persie, Luis Suarez is the final player to make my team. Take nothing away from Van Persie, but I believe that if Suarez was surrounded by the same calibre of players as RVP, his goal tally would be significantly greater."
"Sneaking in just ahead of the impressive Robin Van Persie, Luis Suarez is the final player to make my team. Take nothing away from Van Persie, but I believe that if Suarez was surrounded by the same calibre of players as RVP, his goal tally would be significantly greater."
adex just loves going against the grain.Iniesta's impact at the past Euro and World Cup was overrated. Still, it's fair to say he wins the contest hands down against Lampard, if we look at their performances for their national teams. But aren't international tournaments useless in comparison to club competition nowadays? (refer to Messi thread)
Yeah he does.
Let's keep this on topic. It's not impossible to talk about an United player before making a comparison.
Ronaldo sold plenty of dummies at Old Trafford. On the top of my head, one of his goals in the hatrick against Newcastle and Sporting Lisbon. To say Ronaldo lacks football intelligence is untrue.
This is a different matter entirely......
In my opinion, RVP and Berbatov are the most gifted forwards in this league in terms of ability and ball control. However, the other forwards compensate their inability with their sheer power, pace and aggression.
I have also watched RVP nullified by O'Shea, Brown, Neviller, etc. You are not saying much here. Any forward can have a bad game or a bad form.....Ronaldo is steps ahead of Van Persie in some other attributes. The bullet header against Roma is the kind of goal Van Persie or Messi or Berbatov can never score cos if requires power and sheer strength!
You need a bit of everything.....You cannot underscore one brand of skill to hype another. You need pace in the game as well. Messi also has a burst of acceleration that lets him steal a march on his markers. If Figo were to be playing in this era, he would be rated the same way as Nani or even Jarvis....The present generation of football fans are Stats machines. If a forward cannot score 45 goals + 125 assists in 40 games then he's mediocre......The way football is watched nowadays is very very different.
We're talking about it now. It's not about achievement, it's a question of ability! For me RVP is doing what Cantona did. Lifting the club and it's belief to the next level. If we win the title this season then the argument will only have more credibility. But if we don't, i think that will be down to weaknesses in other areas of the team, and no reflection on the inspirational contribution of RVP.
Ronaldo's stepovers.
Pointless things.
Pointless things.
In terms of impact RvP is certainly as good as if not better than Ronaldo was. In addition his team play is better IMO.
Is what you are trying to say is you do not watch much football?
Up there so far with the best debut seasons by a United player, ever.
Cantona, Yorke, Jaap Stam, & van Nistelrooy from recent history come to mind, with respect to Ole's 18 goal season in 1997. Other than those, very few that I can think of have had the impact and consistent brilliance of RVP.
Cantona, Yorke, Jaap Stam, & van Nistelrooy from recent history come to mind, with respect to Ole's 18 goal season in 1997. Other than those, very few that I can think of have had the impact and consistent brilliance of RVP.
Hernandez had a fantastic debut season, 20 goals.
This is true, I'd put it in the Ole category of a fantastic debut season with a bit of a surprise element to it, but it's not up there with RVP's either in terms of number of goals or in the way he has established his importance to the team like Cantona or van Nistelrooy instantly did.
Aye.
Which is why i never said that. what is it with you people? I said Ronaldo lacks the guile of an RVP or a Messi. I never mentioned or even implied that he lacked football intelligence. I even offered a disclaimer of sorts where i mentioned in advance that the last thing i was suggesting was that he was thick or some sort of footballing retard. Read the words mate!
Which was the point i was making funnily enough.
I don't think so. you may have seen those defenders as a unit nullify RVP. But one on one on a regular basis, i think not.
Ronaldo struggled repeatedly against cole. one on one. Ronaldo v Cole. Why? Because he could not use his speed to any advantage, and struggled to have the guile to beat him without it. It's not hard to fathom watch the games. On one occasion you will even note Cole mocking ronaldo to the Utd fans suggesting he had him in his pocket. The most annoying thing was he was right!
I didn't. i said that the true measure of greatness is in the interpretation of the very top players, not simply goal return or pace and power. They see the game differently than those around them. When i look at Messi, Maradona, Cryuff, Best etc, i see pure genius. Not only in ability, but how they apply it. They are a step ahead of those around them and that's what sets them apart in my view.
The way football is viewed today has changed nothing to how players are regarded. Messi is considered better than CR, because of what he does and how he does it. The instinctive freedom and reactive way he plays is a far cry from what ronaldo does, and that is why you will find almost nobody, despite how you believe the game is now viewed, who cannot discern the difference between the 2 players, even if they struggle to define it.
'Tis a good shout though, Lynk. Best debut seasons is worth discussion in itself. There was a comparison of Ruud's first 15 games with us and RVP's a few pages back in this thread, I might try to update it.
I read somewhere that if Suarez had played for United instead of RvP we would have been even better....
"Sneaking in just ahead of the impressive Robin Van Persie, Luis Suarez is the final player to make my team. Take nothing away from Van Persie, but I believe that if Suarez was surrounded by the same calibre of players as RVP, his goal tally would be significantly greater."
I thought The VP is equal/better than Ronaldo stuff was a bit silly.
But Suarez being equal/better than VP is just plain
I watch enough, thanks.
Comparing Ruud's and Robin's debut seasons is always fun. As noted a few pages back, RVN didn't score in his games against Arsenal, Chelsea, or Liverpool when he first joined whereas RVN has scored against City, Chelsea and Arsenal (and Liverpool).
RVP :
26 appearances (21 starts, 5 as sub)
20 goals: 16 in League, 1 in FA Cup, 3 in CL
RVN :
After 26 appearances (24 starts, 2 as sub)
22 goals: 14 in League, 2 in FA Cup, 6 in CL
statistics from stretfordend.co.uk
RVP :
26 appearances (21 starts, 5 as sub)
20 goals: 16 in League, 1 in FA Cup, 3 in CL
RVN :
After 26 appearances (24 starts, 2 as sub)
22 goals: 14 in League, 2 in FA Cup, 6 in CL
statistics from stretfordend.co.uk
Ronaldo's stepovers.
Pointless things.
Agreed, had some amusement value though. I think the most damning aspect associated with them is Heskey's ill fated attempt.
https://twitter.com/_4thOfficial/status/288014414676914176
Someone went to a lot of trouble of faking this. Honestly, twittards at times....
https://twitter.com/search?q=+RVP+demba&src=typd
Someone went to a lot of trouble of faking this.
Honestly, twittards at times....https://twitter.com/search?q=+RVP+demba&src=typd
I think I'm now happy that Fergie scared him off Twitter with the messages some idiots send.
edit; it probably wasn't fergie, his wife went pretty much silent on Twitter as well.
Aye, It was either Fergie slamming twitter in his first press conference, or it was because of the abuse his wife got off Arsenal fans.
Still, honestly...that really grates on my tits. Why the feck would anyone go to the trouble of faking that?
Still, honestly...that really grates on my tits. Why the feck would anyone go to the trouble of faking that?
I thought The VP is equal/better than Ronaldo stuff was a bit silly.
But Suarez being equal/better than VP is just plain
It's very silly!
Full credits to RVP for scoring that goal with an exquisite first touch but i would expect the same from any of our strikers. Berbatov would have also killed that ball with a touch as well. Hell, Welbeck killed one long pass from Scholesy last night too but he got crowded out while trying to be clever.
Thats just insane man. Ive seen both in their prime live and honestly I cant even begin to explain the difference in terms of ability.
Probably easier to describe how other players attempted to deal with both of them. Lampard has never struck fear into opponents in the manner that Iniesta can. Bizarre comment.
It's very silly!
Full credits to RVP for scoring that goal with an exquisite first touch but i would expect the same from any of our strikers. Berbatov would have also killed that ball with a touch as well. Hell, Welbeck killed one long pass from Scholesy last night too but he got crowded out while trying to be clever.
Whilst any of our strikers are capable its the sheer consistency and times in which he does it. We're 2-1 down with 2 minutes left on the clock and some how you just knew that if RVP even had half a chance he was going to take it. He's done it so many times in his short career for us so far.
He's the best player in the league last season - that's why Fergie got him. It's like Chelsea taking Ronaldo from us in 2008/9 season. I am not really surprised, didn't he score 37 goals last season for Arsenal?
Taking a ball that's coming down from the sky over your shoulder, that has already traveled 60 yards on a diagonal path, and cushioning it literally into your stride, is difficult enough. To do it with a defender shadowing you, in the last minute of a knock-out match away from home, is very, very difficult. I'd imagine Berbatov would do it but I wouldn't expect him to finish the chance like Robin did, and personally I'm not sure I'd put money on our other current strikers to take it down like RVP did.
Got us out of a hole there. When he came on I got the feeling that we just need to give him one decent chance and he would score. Glad to see he didn't let us down. Quality take down and finish as well.
The funny thing is, I remember him ridiculously overhitting two crosses after he came on. And after Giggs missed that chance with his header, I thought it wasn't going to be our day. But I guess that's what you get with top players - all it takes is a moment of sheer brilliance from them.
Someone like Berbatov or Rooney might have taken the ball down, but am pretty sure they would have pulled back the ball with the second touch to assess their options. RvP had the audacity to continue going straight towards goal with his second touch, and I think it caught the defender by surprise. He's just so economical and effective.
Nice words from Joe Cole & Sam Allardyce:
"You take away Messi and Ronaldo and Van Persie is probably the best player in the world," said Joe Cole, West Ham's returning son. "He was playing wide for Arsenal for many years and getting a few injury problems but moving central means there is a bit less running and he can use his technique and finishing, which is just incredible. He is a joy to watch and a pain to play against."
Sam Allardyce, the West Ham manager, suggested that United's £23m summer outlay on Van Persie was a bargain.
(Guardian)
"You take away Messi and Ronaldo and Van Persie is probably the best player in the world," said Joe Cole, West Ham's returning son. "He was playing wide for Arsenal for many years and getting a few injury problems but moving central means there is a bit less running and he can use his technique and finishing, which is just incredible. He is a joy to watch and a pain to play against."
Sam Allardyce, the West Ham manager, suggested that United's £23m summer outlay on Van Persie was a bargain.
(Guardian)
I swear this forum is going to give me a brain tumour.
He was aware of what was going on and that there was a covering defender, it was either get forced wide or try and cut inside. The skill didn't come off because the original tracking runner read it but Welbeck managed to maintain possession and held the ball up well.
Overall it was great play by him and you are being overly critical
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