Never seen him play, will somebody that has actually seen him play comment on his playing style? Is he a LvG type of player?
Roberto Firmino
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Pretty much this. Anderson is a right winger that is rapid, skillful and productive. Firminho is, I think, a striker that is so skillful he is able to play elsewhere.
He is not a striker, but he has the tools to be one.
He's definitely not an LVG Striker which some people are suggesting, although seeming like a pretty good false 9 he's not the type expected from LVG i.e. limit your touches on the ball and control the movement of the defenders.
He's got pretty good work ethic and technical ability so he'd definitely fit in as a Winger or an upgrade on Fellaini in the CAM position.
If that's the case then I can see Rooney being converted to a permanent No. 10 with the addition of a CM.
CARRICK*---------HERRERA
MATA**-----------FIRMINHO---------DEPAY***
ROONEY¨
MATA**-----------FIRMINHO---------DEPAY***
ROONEY¨
* or new CM
** or DI MARIA
*** or YOUNG
¨ or new ST
We really should get Nicky Butt out of retirement.
We could have "Firm-Butt" in central midfield.
We could have "Firm-Butt" in central midfield.
Know very little about this guy, for those who have watched him a good bit, is he worth signing? I read somewhere his agent said he has an agreement with an English club?
he is a second striker. In the right team he might be able to play as false9, but I highly doubt that we are going to play this way. He can play on the wings just like Mata can play on the wing. There is no point buying him, if we don´t use him behind a central forward.
He is 23 but its still hard to say how he is going to develop.
I wouldn´t fully understand this transfer. Mata playing behind a #10 offers more or less the same as Firminio playing behind a #10.
He is 23 but its still hard to say how he is going to develop.
I wouldn´t fully understand this transfer. Mata playing behind a #10 offers more or less the same as Firminio playing behind a #10.
I don't think Mata will ever play as nr 10 in a LVG team. He just isn't what LVG is looking for in a nr 10. If he wanted to play with Mata as nr 10 than surely he would have done so already this season.
Personally I think Mata his best role for us is on the right wing.
If that's the case then buy Firmino for £13 million, & sell Mata for £28-£33 million, or do some sort of Otemendi deal with him, as I'm sure Valencia would love Mata.
I know he played a lot towards the end of the season but I'm not sure LvG is totally convinced with Mata, I've thought for a while that if we flog a player for a big fee this summer (other than DDG) it'll be him.
Why do you think he isnt convinced?
I dont there's any proof for that.
thats why I wouldn´t understand the transfer.
Personally I think LVG doesn't like his lack pace, and shifted him to the RW last season due to ADM's poor form and a lack of a better (faster) option, he is best in behind the striker but for my money LvG doesn't fancy him there, nor will he fancy him on the right side as a starter when he has others options IMO.
Firmino/Depay/Anderson, and a in form Di Maria would solve the wing problem, so unless you put Mata next to Herrera, or instead of Herrera (which I was shot down on recently) where does he fit in?
There's no space for Mata. That's the reality.
Herrera's better as the advanced one in a midfield three. And playing Mata on the wing is essentially settling for less than the best wing option.
Good squad option, but could also raise good funds.
I dont think he played him at RW just because ADM was in poor form. ADM didnt even play in that position if I remember correctly so their positions didnt clash. LVG played Mata there cause he found a nice formation and Mata was pretty good there. Would he fancy him if he'd have other options, I dont know. But I wouldnt say he doesnt fancy Mata.
Phew glad someone agrees, previous times I have mentioned Mata may be sold I've had to run for cover.
If I'm not mistaken LVG said that Mata was one of his best players, so he rates him. But I wouldn't be surprised that he sells him for someone like Firmino who is a better athlete and a very good technician.
Mata was pretty good there no doubt at all, but long term LvG won't want him there, nor for my money will he want him in behind the striker, he's too good and expensive to be a bit part player so that was my thinking behind him maybe going.
Glad to see Brendan has joined us !
More like - the season before they scored 70 goals - this year they only scored 49. Hard to do better when you are involved in almost 50% of the goals
Heard very little linking Firmino with City and when he has been it generally seems to be the obligatory 'link a hot prospect to a top English side' without any more detail. I'd be amazed if it was City who are the English club he has alleged to have agreed to sign with. I also think our definite interest in De Bruyne means we wouldn't have wrapped anything up for an alternative yet.
Why on earth do Man City want him?
Are you guys not satisfied with De Bruyne and Sterling potentially moving to your club lol?
Are you guys not satisfied with De Bruyne and Sterling potentially moving to your club lol?
He'd be a cheaper alternative to De Bruyne. I'm confident we'll get Sterling to be honest but not so much with De Bruyne. There's a decent chance he'll either end up staying at Wolfsburg, be too costly or Bayern decide they want him.
Well they haven't actually bought any of these players, they are far more expensive and harder to sign. I can see city getting him as they need a new #10. Hope it's us that git him though, looks talented and at an affordable price too
I think a lot of the English clubs have the same list of targets, generally. First choice, second choice etc.
Not that surprising.
Just like us with Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Gundogan, McCarthy, Nainggolan links. All of them will be on the club's radar to some extent.
I think at the tip of a three Mata is a better attacking option the Herrera if your midfield 2 are more defensive / holding. Mata has more flair and a much better eye for a killer pass.
Still not convinced this transfer has any traction though. We seem linked with a couple of eandom brazilians we don't really need at the moment. Hopefully the schneiderlin/ gundogun rumours start up again soon.
There is something to that, if we buy a proper CDM in the mould of Schneiderlin, we can easily pair him with Herrera or Gundogan with Mata at the tip.
I would go that route and let Mata and Firmino fight it out for the CAM position.
......Schneiderlin
Herrera - Gundogan
.....Mata/Firmino
Di Maria....Depay
.......Rooney
Perhaps true, but I'd counter that by saying that the difference in flair and ability to play a killer pass isn't as significant as the difference in defensive output and beating a man.
I'd argue that sacrificing a box-to-box midfielder in order to play Mata isn't worth it. Herrera's less precise in his play, but is much better for changing the tempo in and around the box. You'd find that Mata can't hold the ball for long enough, can't speed things up, can't turn a man, and can't go direct nearly as much as Herrera. And when you've then got two defensively minded guys behind Mata, the attacking load would be on him more than it would for Herrera.
Increased attacking load for Mata (not just to make killer passes and score, but all of the other bits), who's arguably less equipped to deal with it.
I also don't think Herrera's behind, in terms of playing the killer pass. I think Mata will make more final passes in moves, but I think their ability to spot a through pass etc. is pretty much level.
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3 at the back?
Have only seen him play twice and once was in a friendly for Brazil. Can see a false 9 being useful now we have Memphis who specialises in running behind defences and scoring, we didn't really have that last season.
that part is clearly not true. Mata lacks the passing options up front with our frontline being really slow these days and not many free spaces on the flanks since we don't have the wide options to stretch the opponents.
Firmino and Depay would probably change that making Mata more effective. I'd put Herrera behind him with a DM or box to box player.
---DM/CM------Herrera-
----------Mata------
Firmino/Depay-----AdM
---------Rooney------
Mata is better than Herrera in that more advanced AM spot.
If we add Vidal to that side we'd have it all - enough aggression and pace up front as well as having players in midfield that can create space with a killer pass. We don't need to sacrifice a box to box midfielder to slot in Mata.
How is:
'Mata can't hold the ball for long enough, can't speed things up, can't turn a man, and can't go direct nearly as much as Herrera'
Clearly untrue? He absolutely can't do any of those as well as Herrera.
As for the rest: You think Mata's better there and I think Herrera is. I don't think changing personnel makes Mata a better option.
We aren't going to convince each other otherwise.
Note to self: Do not attempt to compose lineups in the middle of a meeting again.
If I may make amends:
......Schneiderlin
Herrera/Gundogan
.....Mata/Firmino
Di Maria....Depay
.......Rooney
A midfield 3 of Schneiderlin, Herrera and Mata would be great.... or Schneiderlin, Herrera and Gundogan....depending on how the chips land this summer.
Mata's close control of the ball is one of his best assets. He can speed things up as he can quickly find a man in a channel or free space given that he has those options. Mata is better passer of the ball and can move it quicker with a pass. Turning a man is again one of his best qualities.
Given how much time he spent on the bench these 2 years people forgot how good he was at Chelsea. He has shown this year that given a proper run he can produce the goods. I think Mata has suffered the most in his game due to the lack of speed up front. We just don't have the mobility and flexibility in attacking positions and our forwards doesn't attack the free space, making it harder for Mata to pick a man.
Herrera is faster and more direct with the ball than Mata, that's true, but the rest IMO he hasn't reached his level yet. Mata is better #10 than Herrera still and IMO more naturally gifted of those you mentioned above, especially the close control and turning a man.
We'll have to agree to disagree on most of this.
I think Herrera speeds play up much more/more effectively. Is much better/more willing to turn a man (on his shoulder) with the ball. Is superior at going past a man when facing him with the ball at his foot, and is much quicker in his passing (especially one-touch).
Mata's first touch is superior and his passing is more accurate (albeit safer). His close control is superior, but he doesn't use it to shield the ball as effectively or to dribble past a man very often.
We're genuinely seeing polar opposites.
As for his Chelsea stuff. Completely different team (not a particularly well-balanced one) and different requirements.
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I guess so, no worries.
I think both would benefit from having faster options on the wing that can free space or run into a channel.
Firmino and AdM have pretty good defensive contribution and 4-3-3 with them on the flanks transforming to 4-5-1 off the ball with a proper DM or box to box next to Mata and Herrera would make a pretty formidable team.
Besides what we've seen last season is an excellent partnership between the two, I wouldn't want to break that.
Firmino, Anderson etc(with whom we were linked) are attacking options and I don't think Mata or Herrera's place will be under threat if we sign one of them.
Youngish potential, strikes me as a Liverpool target this fella.
Anderson plays best as a RW, if we do sign him mata wont be able to play his false winger role and he isnt good enough as a number 10 with herrera/carrick in midfield.
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