It be nice to see him at a championship side that would support him though.
Roberto De Zerbi
- Thread starter Bastian
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Not sure that holds? Akpom factually was the main source of goals for Boro last season, his background isn't really relevant unless you are saying Lath could/will come good, which wasn't what I was saying. I am saying they replaced a high scoring striker with a lesser player. Lath per 90 is a 0.4 goal a game striker, Akpom was 0.8 per 90. Basically, it is going to be hard for any manager to do 'well' if you compare them now to last season with that context.
I agree though re quality, I am not advocating for Carrick to be our manager (and hope he and McKenna continue to develop and grow their careers before hopefully one day being qualified) I just think it's very hard to judge some of these managers when many teams are so reliant on one or two players and the club sells one.
Don't care much about him but it seems some are looking for a perfect coach that does not exist.
The point is that Carrick was able to polish a turd in Akpom, so he should be able to get something out of Lath also. Carrick needs to find a way to spread the goals out better. Being that heavily reliant on one goalscorer isn't sustainable. We've seen that with Rashford at United this season compared to last. Akpom might have been a one season wonder. Darryl Murphy had a similar freakish season a few years back. He scored 27 goals compared to his usual average.
I hope we never touch either. I never want to go down that Ole path ever again. McKenna might have a chance 5+ years from now when the remains of any player he worked with at United are gone. You also have to take into consideration just how difficult The PL is compared to The Championship. Managers like Kompany and Farke can dominate The Championship, but then struggle big time when it comes to The PL. Moyes couldn't even make the step up to United from Everton.
What a strange thing to wish for.
Is he an Arsene Wenger (after George Graham)/Ole (after Mou) type? Basically bringing in an attacking style to a side already drilled to defend by his boring predecessor? Then as more time elapses, the lack of defensive focus shows up?
Everton under Roberto Martinez were a perfect example of this. Things unraveled pretty quickly there after his first season when Moyes’s defensive shape was coached out of them.
Really? Liverpool just named him as their backup to Alonso.
Not that I am ruling out either De Zerbi or say Ange, but what they're doing this season isn't as impressive as say, Rodgers with Leicester in his first year. Still need to wait and see because there's more flop stories than hits.
This seems a very different point to the original one?
Re managers transitioning to the PL, I'm not sure, I think the gap between managers is actually extremely small tactically these days and the big difference is in their reputation/ability to handle players. Then it's about the club and how rich it is/how well it recruits. If you take a step back, there aren't that many surprises in football; the richest clubs tend to win, the poorer ones get relegated. In that regard, going back to your point re Robbins, most clubs would probably plump for Carrick over him given the latter's name and reputation. A sad truth for the guys grafting their way up the managerial ladder but it's rare to find someone like Jose or Klopp who came from a low level football background (and even then Klopp had a decent pro career), clubs will almost always hire ex top level players with limited experience over a manager with a great managerial record but without the playing career.
It's England all over again
Yeah. I really think that somehow there should be a balance. Maybe we can have a combined Ole/Mou partnership season by season? Where for first half of the season, we have the boring discipline of Mou and then for the second half, we have the freedom and fun football from Ole. Ideally we would have a coach who has both qualities of course.
People not rating Southgate really gets to you, huh. You're free to have him for Italy or Real Madrid.
No because they played far better football under Potter
Potter has played excellent football in his career. Unless you're just ignoring everything else and looking at his stint at a circus club where managers are handicapped.
Is that what this is? Southgate has fanboys?!
@giorno is definitely one of Southgate's biggest fans. Kinda makes sense seeing as he's Italian. His recent debate with @Fortitude was quite the read.
He thinks England are unappreciative of the work Southgate has done and that that's the cap on what England are capable of, somehow.
@giorno is usually clued up, but his takes on Southgate are way out there.
Not sure about that. De Zerbi elevated their play in my opinion.
I do believe and always have thought that Potter is a very good manager however, I would personally like him to take the England job.
Absolutely not.
Potter actually lost more games as Brighton manager than he won, for starters. 31.11% win rate.
De Zerbri has maintained a win % of 46.05% while competing in Europe for the 1st time in Brighton's history. They even topped their Europa League group.
De Zerbri's Brighton are a much more polished outfit. Potter put down some strong foundations. Brighton are basically a mini Man City. They absolutely dominate possession and the field tilt of most games.
A more clinical version of Brighton with better players is exactly what I want to see from the next United manager.
De Zerbri might need another year or two at Brighton before joining such a big club.
As an Albion season ticket holder who goes to almost every game home and away, this is demonstrably untrue.
I watch as many Brighton games as I can.
I think people don't give De Zerbri enough credit for keeping Brighton competitive while losing both Caicedo and Mac Allister in one summer. Even Colwill, while he didn't always start every game, is another loss.
You actually got your midfield recruitment wrong last summer, which is a rare. Dahoud was a bust and Milner is basically a player-coach at this point.
I think Baleba has huge potential, but De Zerbri needs to trust him more. Give him a run of 5-6 starts in a row. He was very good vs Fulham, despite the result. He was also very good vs Liverpool earlier in the season. Gilmour is a solid technician, but lacks physicality. Baleba can definitely replace some of Caicedo's qualities in the long term.
Groß is incredible btw. He's very underrated by most PL fans.
To be fair apart from @AltiUn's opinion above, De Zerbi gets lots of credit and deservedly so, that's why he keeps getting linked with bigger jobs. Potter definitely laid great foundations at Brighton and the trio of Potter, Bloom and Ashworth worked together incredibly well elevtaing us from relegation contenders to a top 10 team. De Zerbi has taken that up another step. Given our history, it's a great time to be a Brighton fan.
De Zerbi has generally got Brighton matching their xG output in terms of goalscoring and league position, was more of a struggle for Potter and you saw the same at Chelsea.
Perhaps he's just unlucky with the forward players he coaches but his teams aren't really that clinical for the possession they have in games.
Perhaps he's just unlucky with the forward players he coaches but his teams aren't really that clinical for the possession they have in games.
This is a well run club beyond the manager. They have done some amazing deals in the last few years to bankroll their progress up the table. White, Cucurella, Caicedo, Bissouma, McAllister, Sanchez...That is probably over 300 mil right there. Impressive that they have managed to replace them with other top talent. I am wondering how sustainable this model is though even longer term..De Zerbi is a good one but he needs more experience at his current job before he should move on.
Welbeck is Welbeck. I love the guy, but he can go full spaz in front of goal.
His general play is excellent.Ferguson has had a bit of rough time in front of goal recently. He missed 2 big chances vs Fulham.
They should have beaten a lot of the teams they drew with. Turn 2-3 of them into wins and they're sitting pretty in 6th place, which is their maximum level with this squad.
George Graham left Arsenal in 1995, The Invincibles were 2003/2004 with a defence of Lauren - Toure - Campbell - Cole. Got to a Champions League final in 2007 with a defence mostly made up of Eboue - Senderos - Toure - Flamini. Were really front runners to win the league in February 2008 pre Eduardo injury & subsequent meltdown with a defence Sagna - Toure - Gallas - Clichy.
So i feel your doing Wenger a disservice there.
Not sure about De Zerbi. How he manages Brighton in Europe, alongside the domestic campaign will be interesting. He's doing quite well... but, Brighton do have a certain operation, they scout and find players v well.. their wider club structure seems impressive, something that INEOS are looking at improving. How 'good' is De Zerbi at a massive club, under pressure ??
But it's likely that we will need someone. I couldn't even suggest who, I'm not keeping close enough tabs across the emerging managers. There are certain characteristics that I want to see though... a resilient, modern, flexible but fair approach to the demands of modern day management. A certain presence too, a calm authority, because players see throiugh it all.
But it's likely that we will need someone. I couldn't even suggest who, I'm not keeping close enough tabs across the emerging managers. There are certain characteristics that I want to see though... a resilient, modern, flexible but fair approach to the demands of modern day management. A certain presence too, a calm authority, because players see throiugh it all.
I don't particularly rate Southgate actually, though he is doing a good job with england. It's the insane scapegoating of the england managers that I take exception to, and it's not about Southgate, since you people have been doing this to every manager you've had since I've been alive
No, I think blaming Southgate for England failing to beat Croatia, Italy and France is insane, the mythological "better manager" you've all been hoping for for the last 50 years doesn't exist, and claiming you should win but won't because of the manager is beyond insanity
Of all the million reasons why you won't win, the manager is going to be the last and least
So, you don't rate Southgate on one hand and, on the other, think England fans wanting an upgrade on him is impossible because, according to you, this "mythological" manager "doesn't exist"? A manager who would be an improvement on Southgate doesn't exist...
Every single one of our exists were due to tactical decisions, but, sure, the manager is the last reason. The "last and least". He's just being scapegoated like every England manager ever who all showed how great they were after leaving the England job, which I'm sure Southgate will do, too.
Absolutely right. Southgate had some good qualities (great at managing the press, expectation surrounding the side, good with the players, kept a calm camp etc) but he's absolutely been to blame for England underachieving at major tournaments. I think some see that claim (the underachieving) as typical English arrogance but when you look at the way in which we were beaten, both by Italy and Croatia, it's absolutely inarguable.
I assume we'll be staying away from this chap then.
Good post.
You need a special kind of idiot to throw a 1-0 lead to a very beatable Croatia side with 20 mins to go. And an even more special idiot to think it's smart to put 3 kids out for a penalty shoot out in a Euro final withing even kicking the ball.
He was favourites in both and choked in both. He chronically persisted with a back 5 far too long and has weird personnel favourites that don't make sense. There's a feck ton wrong with Southgate as manager, and hel probably find a way to feck up the Euros again despite having the best team in the competition on paper.
Also this notion that we can't upgrade on him is such bollocks. The man's a flop manager from Middlesbrough. You can pick 20 names with better pedigree than he has.
Really? Source?
I don't think Southgate is a particularly good manager, but I do think he's doing a great job, it's really difficult to do better, and the chances of England replacing him and the new person doing a better job are incredibly small
i'm sorry but, this is nonsense. Kane choosing to shoot from 5 yards out, with a completely open Sterling for the easiest of tap-ins, and missing, is a tactical decision now? Kane missing a penalty is a tactical decision?
You massively overrate the impact of tactics on international football results btw
You had Erikson, fresh off winning Serie A, and Capello, one of the greatest managers ever, and it still all their fault when you lost to fecking Brazil. Please.
The manager is not on the pitch. He can't defend in place of his players. What the feck are you even going on about here, seriously. How did Southgate throw away a 1-0 lead against Croatia, do explain please
Uh? Back 5 worked just fine in Russia, and he already dropped it for the Euros except when he used it to surprise the opponent - which generally worked, too (see the final)
I'm saying it's very unlikely that you would upgrade given the quality of the job he is doing right now. Pedigree means feck all at international level. Capello is one of the very best managers the sport has ever seen and look how that went.
You are greatly underestimating how difficult it is to even get the results England managed under him(easy draws, sure, you've still cocked those up in the past and hey, remember what Napoleon said about good generals vs lucky ones?) massively overrating the impact of the manager on individual international games, and choosing to ignore the fact that as it stands England are one lucky break away from winning the Euros - like, say, winning a penalty shootout
Tl;dr Southgate is doing a 8/10 job, the only thing England missed to win stuff is more luck(and possibly Kane not missing crucial chances) and the chances of the next guy doing better than that are so small that England would likely be better off sticking with the guy. Want to know the difference between Scaloni and Southgate? His players won a penalty shootout. That's it.
When I look at the players England has had for the last three tournaments, and what they achieved, I think it’s fair to say you overachieved. If you look at the way better teams were beaten, it didn’t look any better. The crux is not to get beat very often.
Nah, we had a better side than both Italy and Croatia and were ahead in both games. That we lost is entirely on Southgate.
