Roberto De Zerbi

[bosnian_red]

Don't you think sometimes instructions fail because players fail to carry it out? Or do you think ETH specifically instructs Garnacho and Rashford to shoot at every opportunity they can and never pass to Hojlund? Players do need to take some responsibility with them, not everything is on the manager. If Garnacho would have crossed to Hojlund when we were 2-0 up against Newport that game wouldn't have become that nervy in the 2nd half. Or Rashford just plainly refusing to carry out his defensive duties in lot of the games.

I have seen enough in our good performances this season that there is a semblance of good system. That is why I want to see him under a fully functioning setup(take away transfer responsibility away from him, get a DOF and let ETH stick just to coaching without all the off field distractions) with all our injured players back. I don't think we have played the same starting lineup twice in a row this season. Constans chopping due to injuries also doesn't help.

Yeah instructions sometimes fail because of quality. It's important to know how to distinguish what is instructions, what is player quality. Nothing about Rashford or garnacho, I don't think his system is ever going to dominate and control games, and that is just a necessity at the top level. It is just nonsense to try and put that Newport game on Garnacho, we played against a 4th league team. You should be dominating it, they should not have 17 shots, they should barely even enter our half let alone get in shooting range. That has nothing to do with Garnacho, and everything to do with Ten Hags system. There is 0 excuse related to mentality, selfishness, player quality. That is a 4th league side. Ten hags system had 0 plan to control the game, and it was the same system as we see get exploited weekly by premier league sides and what we saw in the CL.

You've seen enough, or any good performances this season? Which ones? I genuinely can't even point to 3 games where we've looked like a top team. 3 games where we controlled the game, created chances and limited the opposition. To me it's painfully obvious that the system itself is actively the problem in why our performances have been shit. When Mainoo, Mount, Mctominay, Eriksen all play a role in midfield the exact same way, surely that points to them just following the same instructions, rather than players going rogue? And those instructions just being shit, rather than the players not being good enough to do it.

 

[saik]

Yeah instructions sometimes fail because of quality. It's important to know how to distinguish what is instructions, what is player quality. Nothing about Rashford or garnacho, I don't think his system is ever going to dominate and control games, and that is just a necessity at the top level. It is just nonsense to try and put that Newport game on Garnacho, we played against a 4th league team. You should be dominating it, they should not have 17 shots, they should barely even enter our half let alone get in shooting range. That has nothing to do with Garnacho, and everything to do with Ten Hags system. There is 0 excuse related to mentality, selfishness, player quality. That is a 4th league side. Ten hags system had 0 plan to control the game, and it was the same system as we see get exploited weekly by premier league sides and what we saw in the CL.

You've seen enough, or any good performances this season? Which ones? I genuinely can't even point to 3 games where we've looked like a top team. 3 games where we controlled the game, created chances and limited the opposition. To me it's painfully obvious that the system itself is actively the problem in why our performances have been shit. When Mainoo, Mount, Mctominay, Eriksen all play a role in midfield the exact same way, surely that points to them just following the same instructions, rather than players going rogue? And those instructions just being shit, rather than the players not being good enough to do it.

I'm not pinning all the blame on Garnacho for that game but if we get another goal and the score goes to 3-0, 4-0, then we take the wind out of the oppositions sail and then it would be a comfortable win. As it happened, they got a goal out of a nothing shot courtesy of a huge deflection which gave them the confidence to attack more.

The 3-0 win against Everton, that win against Chelsea where we created shit load of opportunities but couldn't finish which allowed them to finish the game 2-1 or the Copenhagen game which we were dominating until ref decided to red card Rashford. Or the Tottenham game earlier in the season where we failed to score even after creating good opportunites and the VAR deciding to not give penalty for a blatant handball. There have been good performances this season but they have been few and far between. I'd like to see if it can change and if we can become more consistent with a settled team(without injuries) and settled structure(no off the field distractions). Now, if suddenly someone like Klopp becomes a realistic option for us, I'm all for sacking ETH. As it stands, I would rather keep him, consider the options that we are being linked with.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm not pinning all the blame on Garnacho for that game but if we get another goal and the score goes to 3-0, 4-0, then we take the wind out of the oppositions sail and then it would be a comfortable win. As it happened, they got a goal out of a nothing shot courtesy of a huge deflection which gave them the confidence to attack more.

The 3-0 win against Everton, that win against Chelsea where we created shit load of opportunities but couldn't finish which allowed them to finish the game 2-1 or the Copenhagen game which we were dominating until ref decided to red card Rashford. Or the Tottenham game earlier in the season where we failed to score even after creating good opportunites and the VAR deciding to not give penalty for a blatant handball. There have been good performances this season but they have been few and far between. I'd like to see if it can change and if we can become more consistent with a settled team(without injuries) and settled structure(no off the field distractions). Now, if suddenly someone like Klopp becomes a realistic option for us, I'm all for sacking ETH. As it stands, I would rather keep him, consider the options that we are being linked with.

That Everton game was extremely finishing focused and not so much performance focused. 1st half they dominated, all we did was a screamer from Garnacho (and one other nothing shot) while they had 10 shots in the first half and 1.43 xG to our 0.09 from 2 efforts. 2nd half was decent, but they still got 24 shots to our 9 by the end of the game. That's a bottom half side, that's not good enough to rest your hat on..

Chelsea yeah we battered them, fair, though defensively we still have tons of space but it was fine on balance given just how much threat we made.

Copenhagen was good for half an hour before a collapse. Meh. Not enough time to know how it'd actually go. Spurs game earlier we had a good first half yes, 2nd half was shit from us and so we lost 2-0.

Ultimately, I want to see actual good performances, and more importantly, good performances against good teams in addition to being the better team in the games you should be winning. I'm not going to look at 1 good performance against a garbage Chelsea team, or less than a handful of decent 15-30 minute periods against literally bottom half sides. Those should be automatic if ten hag was actually going to do anything here.

We've gone over 18 months without an away win against a decent team. We can't even have competent one off performances anywhere anymore. It's always chaos, it's always end to end, we never actually look like the better team, we never look in control... I don't understand how it's possible to be that bad after 18 months in charge of a club like United, with all we've spent, and the players we have.

 

[FootballHQ]

They’ll probably finish the week in 10th and their squad is better than that.

The question of him being a streaky manager will be there until he shows more consistency. I actually enjoy watching his Brighton team play, but I wouldn’t want to see it at United, because he just doesn’t seem capable of setting up a defence and that has been the downfall of so many managers at big clubs.

Funny enough I think Farioli from Nice is a better De Zerbi. He plays good football but his system has a strong core and isn’t easily penetrable.

Yeah they could be 10th (or even 11th) by close of play this midweek but I'd still expect them to be fighting for 7th by end of the season and that's a long way from failure of a season.

Last night was bad but they've actually started to click in recent times, destroyed Spurs over xmas and also were much the better team at West Ham but just couldn't finish so they should have enough about them to go on a decent run before Europa league restarts in six weeks.

It feels a bit like everyone piling in on Eddie Howe when it was fashionable and now Newcastle could well go on a good winning run after the result yesterday.

 

[FootballHQ]

Their squad with the injuries and players sold last summer is that of a 12th place team though. Lallana, Welbeck, Milner and Gilmour are regular starters they should be relegation fodder

It’s been a bad season for Brighton squad wise they don’t have the depth to compete in the PL and Europa. Bad patch of form but sitting 8th they should be delighted

They actually have a lot of depth upfront. Ferguson, Mitoma, Joao Pedro, Enciso, Fati, Buonanotte and Welbeck. Don't think there's one game where they've had all of those fit otherwise that's three excellent starters and 3-4 brilliant options off the bench for the hour mark. All bar Welbeck are still very young so they'll be making more 100m + sales in a year or two.

Central midfield and full back are where they're not as strong as last season. Dahoud hasn't worked out at all and seems they're loaning him back to Bundesliga so they do get the odd signing wrong although think he came on a free. Basically an over reliance on Billy Gilmour, Lallana, Milner and Gross in that area.

 

[FootballHQ]

We automatically assume he is a world class manager because of his name. If his name was Mark Tenner this thread wouldn't even exist.

He inherited the work Potter did and actually got them performing in the way they threatened under Potter but never could actually achieve on a consistent basis.

Look how many endless games they had under Potter when they should've scored 3-4 goals but could never do it. They've scored plenty since De Zerbi turned up.

 

[FootballHQ]

I think people expect them not to be shit after how much good press they’ve been getting.

They're still in the top half, won a very tough europa group and progressing once more in FA cup (think Wolves will beat them though).

Again this is Brighton so he gets a pass from me unless they really plummet into the bottom half which I don't really see happening.

As a long term poster on the Cafe now these odd metrics that are used to dismiss manager always raises a chuckle. Given the data INEOS will be using you'll probably get even more of a project manager than De Zerbi next season!

 

[AltiUn]

They're still in the top half, won a very tough europa group and progressing once more in FA cup (think Wolves will beat them though).

Again this is Brighton so he gets a pass from me unless they really plummet into the bottom half which I don't really see happening.

As a long term poster on the Cafe now these odd metrics that are used to dismiss manager always raises a chuckle. Given the data INEOS will be using you'll probably get even more of a project manager than De Zerbi next season!

Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. What’s odd about thinking winning 3 in 16 is bad? They’re trending downwards, they’re held in place by their early season form. It seems a novel concept but them being 8th is reflective of their early season form, them still being in Europa is in reflective of their early season form, as for their FA cup run, well they beat Sheffield United and fecking Stoke. If you wanna pretend they’re having an amazing season then feel free to, I don’t think they are.

 

[saik]

That Everton game was extremely finishing focused and not so much performance focused. 1st half they dominated, all we did was a screamer from Garnacho (and one other nothing shot) while they had 10 shots in the first half and 1.43 xG to our 0.09 from 2 efforts. 2nd half was decent, but they still got 24 shots to our 9 by the end of the game. That's a bottom half side, that's not good enough to rest your hat on..

Chelsea yeah we battered them, fair, though defensively we still have tons of space but it was fine on balance given just how much threat we made.

Copenhagen was good for half an hour before a collapse. Meh. Not enough time to know how it'd actually go. Spurs game earlier we had a good first half yes, 2nd half was shit from us and so we lost 2-0.

Ultimately, I want to see actual good performances, and more importantly, good performances against good teams in addition to being the better team in the games you should be winning. I'm not going to look at 1 good performance against a garbage Chelsea team, or less than a handful of decent 15-30 minute periods against literally bottom half sides. Those should be automatic if ten hag was actually going to do anything here.

We've gone over 18 months without an away win against a decent team. We can't even have competent one off performances anywhere anymore. It's always chaos, it's always end to end, we never actually look like the better team, we never look in control... I don't understand how it's possible to be that bad after 18 months in charge of a club like United, with all we've spent, and the players we have.

I agree with you and that's why I said the good performances have been few and far between and that we have been inconsistent game to game and sometimes even during the same game. Ultimately, I'm not completely in favour of keeping ETH but looking at the options that we are linked with(De Zerbi, Potter or even Mourinho), I don't think they'll fare any better at United. I have no clue how good the current flavour of the month Xabi Alonso is or if there are any other better options out there.

 

[bosnian_red]

I agree with you and that's why I said the good performances have been few and far between and that we have been inconsistent game to game and sometimes even during the same game. Ultimately, I'm not completely in favour of keeping ETH but looking at the options that we are linked with(De Zerbi, Potter or even Mourinho), I don't think they'll fare any better at United. I have no clue how good the current flavour of the month Xabi Alonso is or if there are any other better options out there.

Thing is, they are all good managers who are worth a go (apart from Mourinho, obviously). You have to view managers as replaceable who have to implement their system and coach the team. If they don't do it well enough, then you sack and replace with another. De Zerbi, faraoli, Potter, Ten Hag, Xabi Alonso, nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, etc... plenty of good coaches around. Some will take to the club well and implement a system that works in the prem, some won't. You just try again if one doesn't. Ten Hag hasn't, so we go again and go for a new guy who might. There are plenty of options around who have shown good things, maybe have some risk associated with them, but nobody who is a dead cert like Pep or Klopp, where they've been at the top for years.. so you gotta roll the dice and hope somebody steps up.

 

[FootballHQ]

Thing is, they are all good managers who are worth a go (apart from Mourinho, obviously). You have to view managers as replaceable who have to implement their system and coach the team. If they don't do it well enough, then you sack and replace with another. De Zerbi, faraoli, Potter, Ten Hag, Xabi Alonso, nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, etc... plenty of good coaches around. Some will take to the club well and implement a system that works in the prem, some won't. You just try again if one doesn't. Ten Hag hasn't, so we go again and go for a new guy who might. There are plenty of options around who have shown good things, maybe have some risk associated with them, but nobody who is a dead cert like Pep or Klopp, where they've been at the top for years.. so you gotta roll the dice and hope somebody steps up.

Funnily enough if Brighton lose De Zerbi I bet they'll already be targeting someone like Michel from Girona.

Girona ended last season very well so not like you're hiring him just based on six months incredible form.

Perhaps though he'll stay and manage them in CL first which would be cool.

Tuchel will probably be available end of the season so that feels obvious candidate for Man. United given his past experience in prem.

 

[Crimson King]

Funnily enough if Brighton lose De Zerbi I bet they'll already be targeting someone like Michel from Girona.

Girona ended last season very well so not like you're hiring him just based on six months incredible form.

Perhaps though he'll stay and manage them in CL first which would be cool.

Tuchel will probably be available end of the season so that feels obvious candidate for Man. United given his past experience in prem.

Feels like Michel is destined for Barca at this point.

 

[TwoSheds]

This is going to sound stupid, but weren't they quality when Solly March was fit and playing RW but bang average without him? Is he actually secretly somehow a top RW in a similar way to how Bowen crept into that reckoning?

 

[bosnian_red]

Funnily enough if Brighton lose De Zerbi I bet they'll already be targeting someone like Michel from Girona.

Girona ended last season very well so not like you're hiring him just based on six months incredible form.

Perhaps though he'll stay and manage them in CL first which would be cool.

Tuchel will probably be available end of the season so that feels obvious candidate for Man. United given his past experience in prem.

Yeah. Tons of options really of managers who play progressive/modern football, have impressed, and are definitely attainable (for us or for Liverpool or Barca).

• Flick
• Nagelsmann
• Tuchel
• De Zerbi
• Michel
• Faraoli
• Ruben Amorim
• Michel
• Xabi Alonso
• Spalletti
• Inzaghi
• Even someone like McKenna for a smaller club who has done excellent things so far

It's hard to say who would do best, all of them have their own plusses and risks.

 

[Cheimoon]

Not for one thing or another, but given there are already half a dozen threads to discuss Ten Hag and at least one to discuss his possible successors, maybe this one could be a bit more squarely focused on De Zerbi? I get the interest in comparing him with Ten Hag, but a large part of the posts on the past two pages are all about Ten Hag and United and not at all about De Zerbi.

 

[Red Star One]

He needs to be a bit less suicidal with his tactics. The way they started against Fulham today made little sense

 

[Maluco]

He needs to be a bit less suicidal with his tactics. The way they started against Fulham today made little sense

The way he sets up his midfield sometime is baffling. I think he would drive us made with the strange decisions and rotation for rotations sake. One to avoid I think.

 

[UTAretro]

Hate to say this, but our selection basically has thrown this game. Midfield of Van Hecke (a centre back, his first ever game there), Baleba (looks way off the levels and has only a few starts), and Lallana whose legs have gone.

No Gilmour, Groß, Welbeck, March, Mitoma, Milner or Hinshelwood through suspension or injury.

Today he’s rested key players because Thursday away to Roma in the Europa League is probably the biggest game in our history. Trying to avoid fatigue/injuries.

Very glad I didn’t go today, I could see this happening.

 

[Redstain]

Hate to say this, but our selection basically has thrown this game. Midfield of Van Hecke (a centre back, his first ever game there), Baleba (looks way off the levels and has only a few starts), and Lallana whose legs have gone.

No Gilmour, Groß, Welbeck, March, Mitoma, Milner or Hinshelwood through suspension or injury.

Today he’s rested key players because Thursday away to Roma in the Europa League is probably the biggest game in our history. Trying to avoid fatigue/injuries.

Very glad I didn’t go today, I could see this happening.

Just saw the team sheet thought it looks devoid of quality.

 

[croadyman]

Yet again Brighton lose by 3+ goals after there are loose links to the United job

 

[ForeverRed1]

Yet again Brighton lose by 3+ goals after there are loose links to the United job

ETH would do a better job at Brighton than he would at United. Better run club for what it is with less expectation placed on its shoulders. Why would Di zerbi be any different? The only reason I could think of is the fact that INEOS are now in and bringing a team in with them which might offer more support and knowledge/experience on the footballing side. Why shouldn’t ETH get that opportunity though?

 

[AshRK]

ETH would do a better job at Brighton than he would at United. Better run club for what it is with less expectation placed on its shoulders. Why would Di zerbi be any different? The only reason I could think of is the fact that INEOS are now in and bringing a team in with them which might offer more support and knowledge/experience on the footballing side. Why shouldn’t ETH get that opportunity though?

Because fans love to rate new shiny toy every month.

 

[Yagami]

I'm still a big fan of his despite the struggles this season. I thought he was always going to because not only did he lose his first choice central midfield pair, Enciso has missed the majority of the season, too.

For me, though, it's not just about what he's done at Brighton. I saw quite a bit of his Sassuolo team and they were very impressive, too. It's not a one off where he just happened to get lucky to work under a great structure such as Brightons. @Rasendori made similar comments about his Sassuolo side recently as well, and I think that tends to get overlooked.

 

[sugar_kane]

Beyond the strong start this year what's he really done that merits him being linked to the top three jobs in the country (City, Liverpool, United) and beyond?

I'd get him being linked to a club say Spurs's level, or a team outside the big two in Spain for instance but what's he done to prove he is at the elite level? Their results this season haven't been that amazing.

 

[JustAGuest]

Beyond the strong start this year what's he really done that merits him being linked to the top three jobs in the country (City, Liverpool, United) and beyond?

I'd get him being linked to a club say Spurs's level, or a team outside the big two in Spain for instance but what's he done to prove he is at the elite level? Their results this season haven't been that amazing.

I think partly because there are very few top managers available. Just look at our options and they aren't that great.

De Zerbi is a bit of an unknown in that he's yet to manage a true top club. With the lack of other options that risk might be worth it.

 

[Ayoba]

It's a no from me.

 

[DRJosh]

I’d rather get Carrick back - someone who knows the club- than go for De Zerbi.

 

[pocco]

Sometimes you can look past results when you can see that the fundamental coaching aspects are good, in a similar way that Klopp wasn't outcast after relegating Mainz and not being able to lead them to promotion again.

I think there is a bit of a case for that with De Zerbi, who's managing a team that was pillaged of their best players and has woeful injury issues. Their backup options are nowhere near the level they need to be. Having said that, some of these results do cast a doubt on him and whether he is ready for a top club yet. No doubt he'll go to Barca or something and be amazing, but I think a club lacking conviction like us will be too scared to take a chance on him right now. I think the football would be exciting and I do think he has the makings of a top manager, but I think INEOS will play it as safe as possible with their next hire.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I’d rather get Carrick back - someone who knows the club- than go for De Zerbi.

Carrick isn't even doing that well at Middlebrough. He's lost a lot of games this season. He's actually lost 4 of his last 5 Championship games. They're technically only 6 points off the drop zone. And they have a -4 GD.

Carrick shouldn't even be a speck on our radar.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I would think interest in him from bigger clubs has cooled over the past few months.

 

[SilentWitness]

I think he's a good manager, he just got hyped a bit too much during that initial spell and it didn't help that it coincided with their previous manager becoming meme material at Chelsea.

 

[DWelbz19]

His sides obviously do get pumped a little too frequently, but one thing I really do like about this manager is how he truly values the significance of ball retention. It's rare that a team will out-possess and out-shoot Brighton. Those traits alone are very desirable in the wider picture when looking at a manager.

 

[sugar_kane]

I think partly because there are very few top managers available. Just look at our options and they aren't that great.

De Zerbi is a bit of an unknown in that he's yet to manage a true top club. With the lack of other options that risk might be worth it.

I think he's a good manager, he just got hyped a bit too much during that initial spell and it didn't help that it coincided with their previous manager becoming meme material at Chelsea.

We don't need a good manager, we need great. Also just having a lack of great options doesn't mean we should pull the trigger on an option who is just good. We've done that plenty in the transfer market and it's set us back years.

 

[FootballHQ]

We don't need a good manager, we need great. Also just having a lack of great options doesn't mean we should pull the trigger on an option who is just good. We've done that plenty in the transfer market and it's set us back years.

Thomas Tuchel is a great manager given he's won leagues and the CL in his career. Plenty don't want him at Man. United though and I think it depends where you finish, 6th-8th is more likely to get a development manager in who can build the club back up the league again.

I wouldn't say De Zerbi would be any worse of a call for Man. United than Arsenal getting Arteta in when they did. I certainly never thought Arteta would guide Arsenal so far up the league, it looked very unlikely as late as September 2021 when he'd been in the job for nearly two years.

De Zerbi would enjoy working with Mainoo and Garnacho for sure, would get good football out of those two on a weekly basis.

 

[eire-red]

Thomas Tuchel is a great manager given he's won leagues and the CL in his career. Plenty don't want him at Man. United though and I think it depends where you finish, 6th-8th is more likely to get a development manager in who can build the club back up the league again.

I wouldn't say De Zerbi would be any worse of a call for Man. United than Arsenal getting Arteta in when they did. I certainly never thought Arteta would guide Arsenal so far up the league, it looked very unlikely as late as September 2021 when he'd been in the job for nearly two years.

De Zerbi would enjoy working with Mainoo and Garnacho for sure, would get good football out of those two on a weekly basis.

Hmm.. I like De Zerbi for the most part, but what I don't like is the tendency for Brighton to get thumped fairly regularly.

Now that can happen I suppose when you have a decent team playing fairly high-risk football, there's a good chance with top players it wouldn't be the case. But with how sensationalistic the media are with United it is a black mark against him.

I also should factor losing Caicedo and MacAllister in the summer would be difficult for anyone to deal with.

Tuchel I really don't know. I think his CV is a bit overly-flattering to him, but I could still see him doing well at a club like United with financial backing and we are generally more supportive of managers than the clubs he has been at.

 

[DWelbz19]

Also just having a lack of great options doesn't mean we should pull the trigger on an option who is just good.

I get what you're saying, but similarly, we also shouldn't be retaining a manager who is nowhere near good enough because the options out there are "just good".

 

[giorno]

Eh, they're still performing quite well, but the goalkeeping is terrible and they've had a lot of injuries

Also managing europe for the first time in the club's history, which is never easy(look what happened to Newcastle). He was overhyped at first but he's doing great work regardless

Big clubs should be interested, whether he'll be successful is another story

 

[tomaldinho1]

Carrick isn't even doing that well at Middlebrough. He's lost a lot of games this season. He's actually lost 4 of his last 5 Championship games. They're technically only 6 points off the drop zone. And they have a -4 GD.

Carrick shouldn't even be a speck on our radar.

Context is important though. They sold their top goalscorer to Ajax for £10m and replaced him with Lath who cost about £4.5m who has basically jumped around B/C leagues since he debuted and had had one good season with St.Gallen.

Akpom got 28 goals in 38 games for them last season, Lath has 5 in 18.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Carrick isn't even doing that well at Middlebrough. He's lost a lot of games this season. He's actually lost 4 of his last 5 Championship games. They're technically only 6 points off the drop zone. And they have a -4 GD.

Carrick shouldn't even be a speck on our radar.

... yet. He's shown some good things in his time as manager, and should continue developing. He should absolutely be on our radar, but not for immediate use.

Same with McKenna who should also be on our radar, but probably as a brighter, more visible spot.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Context is important though. They sold their top goalscorer to Ajax for £10m and replaced him with Lath who cost about £4.5m who has basically jumped around B/C leagues since he debuted and had had one good season with St.Gallen.

Akpom got 28 goals in 38 games for them last season, Lath has 5 in 18.

You can apply your same Lath logic to Akpom though. He's had one career season to date. He bounced around England and had a few spells in Greece before settling at Middlesbrough eventually.

5 goals from 11 starts isn't a terrible return from Lath.

There have been far better Championship managers who United wouldn't touch. Mark Robbins is doing a better job at Coventry. They also sold their star striker last summer.

Carrick is miles away from being considered a United manger. United fans do love the idea of an ex player though.