Roberto De Zerbi

[NoPace]

Graham Potter doesn't seem to get the same leeway though. Some people were almost saying like Potter was holding Brighton back after De Zerbi had that good run last season, despite the fact Potter left when they were 4th in the league (albeit very early on) and the way their team was building you would have expected a good finish. Previous season they were 9th. This season they're 9th again. Same with Chelsea under Pochettino, was supposed to get much better without Potter, and he was sacked with them 11th in the table, without even getting to a pre-season. Yet Chelsea are now 11th in the Premier League this season again after 26 games.

As much as their play, for me a factor aiding both is that Brighton chose to hire them, and they are smarter than us.

In particular De Zerbi,since Brighton was in a much better position, which is why they even attracted a young coach hired by Shaktar - a very solid footballing outfit - who only left because of the war.

Agreed on Potter's time at Chelsea being proof that he's not a miracle worker, but it doesn't make him a bad or even average manager.

Nagelsmann seems like the safest option. I don't know much about Amorim really. But if we can't get those guys, the Brighton guys don't upset me as options. Bringing in young talent that works (faster CBs, fill the holes at DM, one more DM/CM after that and a backup striker and a star somewhere out wide) and good style of play is the most important part of the retooling/rebuilding we need now. And I can see De Zerbi or Potter being useful there, whether or not they're here for 3 years or 10.

 

[giorno]

Really sounds like disaster recipe for this United squad.

Eh. I mean, the same is true for Liverpool yet they don't get pasted because they have great, pacey CBs who can still slow down attacks and let the rest track back. Plus Alisson. So that's an issue that can be fixed through signing great players, for the most part

But yes, United would need to sign some seriously great CBs for De Zerbi if they want to compete for the PL. Then again...read that sentence again, you can just remove De Zerbi and that sentence would still be true...

As for his time in Italy: Sassuolo were much better with him than with his successor in every way, and he left a team that didn't need a lot of new coaching to keep being good. Helped that Sassuolo picked a guy with similar ideas to succeed him, which is also its own confirmation of how well he did there - him going to Shakhtar was pretty big/sad news in Italy at the time, sort of a confirmation that the league was in a shit state that we couldn't even retain one of the best young managers we had

 

[Pintu]

So far he's proven he can take a small club to very respectful results. He did it with Sassuolo and that's what he's doing with Brighton (in the continuation of Potter's results, with a more attacking style). People need to lay off Brighton a little, they aren't backed by Oil Fund... They lose their best players every year. In his first season he made top 6 and FA-Cup semi final... This season despite all the injuries they won their EL group and are sitting 9th within 5 points off that top 6...

Helped that Sassuolo picked a guy with similar ideas to succeed him, which is also its own confirmation of how well he did there - him going to Shakhtar was pretty big/sad news in Italy at the time, sort of a confirmation that the league was in a shit state that we couldn't even retain one of the best young managers we had

Of course Sassuolo can't keep a talented coach for much longer than that.. And I think it was reasonable for the bigger clubs not to go for him... 6 "richer" clubs took new coaches at that time. Fiorentina recruited Italiano, Inter lost Conte and went for the quite confirmed Inzaghi. Lazio replaced the latter with Sarri. Juventus had just seen Pirlo underperform (hindsight says he didn't) and went for the confirmed Allegri... Roma were happy to attract Mourinho... Napoli recruited the experimented Spaletti. Milan & Atalanta had no reason to change...

I'd say given the results, only Juventus (and to some extent Roma) made bad choices then.

 

[Giggsyking]

why

Unproven at a big club. I would rather we push for Nagelsmann, at least he has a sense on what a big club is and also won something.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Even more overrated than Potter. It regularly amazes me his how the regular heavy pastings he gets get ignored because his style of play is beautiful.

 

[croadyman]

Even more overrated than Potter. It regularly amazes me his how the regular heavy pastings he gets get ignored because his style of play is beautiful.

Yeah he's still in my top 5 but he's near the bottom end of it with these beatings he keeps taking

 

[Grande]

Eh. I mean, the same is true for Liverpool yet they don't get pasted because they have great, pacey CBs who can still slow down attacks and let the rest track back. Plus Alisson. So that's an issue that can be fixed through signing great players, for the most part

But yes, United would need to sign some seriously great CBs for De Zerbi if they want to compete for the PL. Then again...read that sentence again, you can just remove De Zerbi and that sentence would still be true...

As for his time in Italy: Sassuolo were much better with him than with his successor in every way, and he left a team that didn't need a lot of new coaching to keep being good. Helped that Sassuolo picked a guy with similar ideas to succeed him, which is also its own confirmation of how well he did there - him going to Shakhtar was pretty big/sad news in Italy at the time, sort of a confirmation that the league was in a shit state that we couldn't even retain one of the best young managers we had

As you say, which I said, that way of playing would be difficult to get away with for this current set of United players, and this would go for De Zerbi, and this would go for any manager, including Ten Hag. You need different player types in several positions (you mentioned three, I would ad a few more in midfield/attack), and if you want to be vaccinated against crucial injuries/fatigue so as to compete gor the top every season like City and not every other season like Liverpool, you need two players of the same profile and level in each of these positions, not one.

We are a few injuries and a few purchases away from that, which is why De Zerbi to United has even come up as an idea, as Ten Hag has shown more than De Zerbi both outside of and at Man United. What Ten Hag is aiming for is not that far off how De Zerbi likes his teams to play, so I would rather give Ten Hag a real shot at establishing that football with enough players who can actually perform it, and then we can look to De Zerbi later and see how he has got on.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Even more overrated than Potter. It regularly amazes me his how the regular heavy pastings he gets get ignored because his style of play is beautiful.

Question is with backing, keeping your best players and bringing in top class ones, does he have another level in him? I'm not saying he does or doesn't, but I do long to see United to play pretty football.

 

[duffer]

Him getting a job at a really big club could mean a huge bid from that club for Mudryk. De Zebri called him a future Balon d'or winnner.

 

[horsechoker]

Him getting a job at a really big club could mean a huge bid from that club for Mudryk. De Zebri called him a future Balon d'or winnner.

Fergie said Phil Jones would be United's no.1 centre back for 10 years

 

[giorno]

Fergie said Phil Jones would be United's no.1 centre back for 10 years

And he went back to United's medical centre for 10 years so

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Question is with backing, keeping your best players and bringing in top class ones, does he have another level in him? I'm not saying he does or doesn't, but I do long to see United to play pretty football.

Personally I don't see it. For me he is not doing anything on a tactical level higher than Potter was. Only difference is he takes far more risks.

He is the kind of coach who works best in clubs with long established system and culture of play. He'd work at Barcelona. Even a Bayern. Or possibly a Post Guardiola City. At a United he'd drown like Potter did at Chelsea.

 

[Ayoba]

Heavily linked to the Bayern job today.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Heavily linked to the Bayern job today.

I keep seeing that. but surely this is just his agent talking?

I can't work out why this guy is so highly rated. They always lose and he's never won a thing

 

[crossy1686]

Him getting a job at a really big club could mean a huge bid from that club for Mudryk. De Zebri called him a future Balon d'or winnner.

Don't do it to yourself, we've all seen him play...

 

[SilentWitness]

Surely with the Alonso news he is high on both the Liverpool and Bayern radar.

 

[Scandi Red]

Heavily linked to the Bayern job today.

They can't be zerbious.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

His recent comments suggest he will be leaving Brighton.

 

[Ayoba]

His recent comments suggest he will be leaving Brighton.

Yup, he's set his stall after his comments on the weekend. He wants out and has basically put himself on the showroom window. The only question now is where will he end up, bayern or liverpool?

 

[FrankDrebin]

Chelsea.

 

[duffer]

Don't do it to yourself, we've all seen him play...

He's actually been decent the last few months. Obviously I'm kidding about a Balon D'or (although Di Zerbi did say that).

 

[crossy1686]

I keep seeing that. but surely this is just his agent talking?

I can't work out why this guy is so highly rated. They always lose and he's never won a thing

Bayern, Liverpool, us, Chelsea and City have all been linked with him heavily.

So here's the thing about winning things. It's hard to do, even harder to do when you're up against state funded teams like City who just outright cheat in this modern era. There are only couple of things a team like Brighton stand a remote chance of winning every season, and that depends on them being excellent for a prolonged period of time and beating some very well funded, well put together teams along the way, while avoiding injuries to their first 11 because they don't have viable backup depth.

Then you also realise that Brighton's transfer spend over the the last 5 seasons is positive for £85m, and their record transfer in cost them £30m. Not only that, they scored 71 goals in the league last season (51 so far this season), with Danny Welbeck as the main CF. For comparison, we've scored 40 this season so far in the league with a forward line that cost north of £200m. And Brighton rarely have none scoring games, as a team they are potent in front of goal.

De Zerbi will go abroad at some point, to a team like Bayern and win many trophies, and maybe then you'll see that he has 'won something' and lament the fact we missed out on a very good coach, who can do the thing we all give Guardiola shit for because he hasn't got the bollocks to do it: getting a smaller team to score goals and play well.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I will never lament on missing out on a De zerbi. Much Better coaches than him are out there.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Bayern, Liverpool, us, Chelsea and City have all been linked with him heavily.

So here's the thing about winning things. It's hard to do, even harder to do when you're up against state funded teams like City who just outright cheat in this modern era. There are only couple of things a team like Brighton stand a remote chance of winning every season, and that depends on them being excellent for a prolonged period of time and beating some very well funded, well put together teams along the way, while avoiding injuries to their first 11 because they don't have viable backup depth.

Then you also realise that Brighton's transfer spend over the the last 5 seasons is positive for £85m, and their record transfer in cost them £30m. Not only that, they scored 71 goals in the league last season (51 so far this season), with Danny Welbeck as the main CF. For comparison, we've scored 40 this season so far in the league with a forward line that cost north of £200m. And Brighton rarely have none scoring games, as a team they are potent in front of goal.

De Zerbi will go abroad at some point, to a team like Bayern and win many trophies, and maybe then you'll see that he has 'won something' and lament the fact we missed out on a very good coach, who can do the thing we all give Guardiola shit for because he hasn't got the bollocks to do it: getting a smaller team to score goals and play well.

Brighton lose all the time under De Zerbi though. How is what he's doing better than what Moyes did with West Ham last season?

And even if some of the above is true (Potter was better IMO) - why does that make him right for the biggest jobs? Overachieving with a positive net spend isn't a trait you need to have at the top clubs. It's winning matches. Which De Zerbi isn't doing.

I'd be over the moon if Liverpool or Chelsea got him.

 

[FootballHQ]

I keep seeing that. but surely this is just his agent talking?

I can't work out why this guy is so highly rated. They always lose and he's never won a thing

"They always lose" the feck?!!

It's a bit like saying Bournemouth under Howe always used to lose. Or Moyes at Everton....o.k bad example. Or Klopp always lose at Mainz....

Bayern probably just like the football he plays and think it could be similar to going back to what they were doing under Guardiola a decade ago. They've tried plenty of big names since and none of them have really met expectations apart from Flick who was more of an unknown when he came in.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

"They always lose" the feck?!!

It's a bit like saying Bournemouth under Howe always used to lose. Or Moyes at Everton....o.k bad example. Or Klopp always lose at Mainz....

Bayern probably just like the football he plays and think it could be similar to going back to what they were doing under Guardiola a decade ago. They've tried plenty of big names since and none of them have really met expectations apart from Flick who was more of an unknown when he came in.

What's funny? It's true

 

[crossy1686]

Brighton lose all the time under De Zerbi though. How is what he's doing better than what Moyes did with West Ham last season?

And even if some of the above is true (Potter was better IMO) - why does that make him right for the biggest jobs? Overachieving with a positive net spend isn't a trait you need to have at the top clubs. It's winning matches. Which De Zerbi isn't doing.

I'd be over the moon if Liverpool or Chelsea got him.

Well that's the whole point, Brighton should be losing all the time based on their net spend alone. They out perform on almost every metric, which is the sign of a great coach, which is why big teams are interested in him. He has Championship players playing football that rival the likes of Manchester City. You implement a sustainable style and the results follow, which is exactly what he has done. If that's not the case and it's just about the winning then Ten Hag is doing a fantastic job and the search for a new manager isn't needed.

 

[SilentWitness]

What's funny? It's true

Not really. Only 5 clubs in the league this year have lost less than them.

That being said, I do think they've been a bit shaky this year and struggled at times.

From 12th August to 24th September they won 5 games in the league.

From 30th September to 2nd April they've won 6 games in the league.

 

[FootballHQ]

What's funny? It's true

They're in the top half of the league with a million injuries. Yes yes I know Man. United are the only team in football history to have injuries and get a pass but other teams also get them to key players and have to adapt.

They lost Solly March with an ACL in October who was one of their best players last season. Enciso didn't play from late August-March. Mitoma played one match from December 21st up to March and now ruled out for the season. Estupinan been out for a couple of months and struggled to get his rhythm back. Joao Pedro was scoring regularly at start of 2024 and he's missed the last six weeks injured. That is their spine rather than just backup players.

Looking at De Zerbi's comments recently I think he's just accepted that and is more angry there wasn't a serious attempt to replace Caciedo and Mac alister in the summer or January.

Ultimately though they remain above all of Chelsea, Fulham and Wolves and I personally think they'll finish above Newcastle and West Ham aswell. Need some results soon but possible they could push Man. United for 6th aswell.

You don't get close to 6th/7th if you "always lose." With how Brighton operate that's a perfectly acceptable season. They've only actually lost one home game in the league all season.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Well that's the whole point, Brighton should be losing all the time based on their net spend alone. They out perform on almost every metric, which is the sign of a great coach, which is why big teams are interested in him. He has Championship players playing football that rival the likes of Manchester City. You implement a sustainable style and the results follow, which is exactly what he has done. If that's not the case and it's just about the winning then Ten Hag is doing a fantastic job and the search for a new manager isn't needed.

I maintain.. How does a manager not quite losing as much as people expecting him to qualify him for the likes of Bayern?

Xabi Alonso doing what he's doing is genuinely impressive and I can see why he's being linked to Madrid, Bayern etc after one proper season. De Zerbi jumping from not quite being totally shit to Bayern is silly. There's a middle step there.

I'm not close minded, I'd change it if someone gave me a genuine argument for De Zerbi being a top manager. But instead people just mock and say you're wrong with nothing to really back it up

 

[LawCharltonBest]

They're in the top half of the league with a million injuries. Yes yes I know Man. United are the only team in football history to have injuries and get a pass but other teams also get them to key players and have to adapt.

They lost Solly March with an ACL in October who was one of their best players last season. Enciso didn't play from late August-March. Mitoma played one match from December 21st up to March and now ruled out for the season. Estupinan been out for a couple of months and struggled to get his rhythm back. Joao Pedro was scoring regularly at start of 2024 and he's missed the last six weeks injured. That is their spine rather than just backup players.

Looking at De Zerbi's comments recently I think he's just accepted that and is more angry there wasn't a serious attempt to replace Caciedo and Mac alister in the summer or January.

Ultimately though they remain above all of Chelsea, Fulham and Wolves and I personally think they'll finish above Newcastle and West Ham aswell. Need some results soon but possible they could push Man. United for 6th aswell.

You don't get close to 6th/7th if you "always lose." With how Brighton operate that's a perfectly acceptable season. They've only actually lost one home game in the league all season.

Okay. And an "acceptable season" as you put it qualifies him for the Bayern/city job how?

Take the next step this summer to a team who can spend a bit and do well, like Emery at Villa, and I can have a serious talk about him being in the frame for the top jobs. Right now it's very premature IMO

 

[crossy1686]

I maintain.. How does a manager not quite losing as much as people expecting him to qualify him for the likes of Bayern?

Xabi Alonso doing what he's doing is genuinely impressive and I can see why he's being linked to Madrid, Bayern etc after one proper season. De Zerbi jumping from not quite being totally shit to Bayern is silly. There's a middle step there.

I'm not close minded, I'd change it if someone gave me a genuine argument for De Zerbi being a top manager. But instead people just mock and say you're wrong with nothing to really back it up

You have to consider the context of the league and the margin for error in the PL.

Alonso has done a fantastic job so far but they could finish the season empty handed, nothing is given at this point. He deserves the attention he is getting and by all accounts he’s first choice everywhere and De Zerbi is second choice everywhere so maybe that answers your question?

Because Brighton have become such a PL mainstay in the last few years people take for granted what they’re achieving season on season. The performances and results he gets with Brighton are unheard of in any other league in Europe. With the exception of Leverkusen, how many other teams in other leagues sell their best players and qualify for Europe, and comfortably beat teams like United, Arsenal, City and Liverpool on the way? We’re at the point where top 6 is kind of expected for them, that’s how good De Zerbi is.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

You have to consider the context of the league and the margin for error in the PL.

Alonso has done a fantastic job so far but they could finish the season empty handed, nothing is given at this point. He deserves the attention he is getting and by all accounts he’s first choice everywhere and De Zerbi is second choice everywhere so maybe that answers your question?

Because Brighton have become such a PL mainstay in the last few years people take for granted what they’re achieving season on season. The performances and results he gets with Brighton are unheard of in any other league in Europe. With the exception of Leverkusen, how many other teams in other leagues sell their best players and qualify for Europe, and comfortably beat teams like United, Arsenal, City and Liverpool on the way? We’re at the point where top 6 is kind of expected for them, that’s how good De Zerbi is.

I'd counter that:

A. Again, selling your best players and carrying on at the same level isn't a trait that Bayern etc need. They need managers who can coach the best players and win games. De Zerbi isn't a top manager in either of those categories.

B. They've had the odd result against the top teams but "comfortably beating" all of them is a stretch. They were always going to lose to Liverpool and did. They will obviously lose to Arsenal this weekend. There's nothing in me that thinks De Zerbi will get the upper hand and I doubt they'll even lay a glove on them.

C. "by all accounts" doesn't mean fact. I'd also wager that in real life De Zerbi isn't at a top club in August despite there being numerous vacancies. I am convinced it's agent smoke.

 

[FootballHQ]

Okay. And an "acceptable season" as you put it qualifies him for the Bayern/city job how?

Take the next step this summer to a team who can spend a bit and do well, like Emery at Villa, and I can have a serious talk about him being in the frame for the top jobs. Right now it's very premature IMO

I haven't seen anything about De Zerbi going to Man. City apart from Pep praising him.

Bayern don't just appoint elite coaches all the time, they gave Niko Kovac the job a few years ago which predictably didn't work out.

 

[giorno]

They need managers who can coach the best players and win games. De Zerbi isn't a top manager in either of those categories.

Yeah but I mean, that pretty much disqualifies every manager without prior experience at a top club...

 

[crossy1686]

I'd counter that:

A. Again, selling your best players and carrying on at the same level isn't a trait that Bayern etc need. They need managers who can coach the best players and win games. De Zerbi isn't a top manager in either of those categories.

B. They've had the odd result against the top teams but "comfortably beating" all of them is a stretch. They were always going to lose to Liverpool and did. They will obviously lose to Arsenal this weekend. There's nothing in me that thinks De Zerbi will get the upper hand and I doubt they'll even lay a glove on them.

C. "by all accounts" doesn't mean fact. I'd also wager that in real life De Zerbi isn't at a top club in August despite there being numerous vacancies. I am convinced it's agent smoke.

A. I'm sure it wasn't ideal for Klopp when he was at Mainz or Dortmund but Liverpool saw through that as part of the problem with managing a smaller club, the same thing is going to happen to Alonso this summer when the big teams come in for the Leverkusen players. If he was doing a shit job, these players wouldn't be leaving for massive fees, its a double edged sword. The real skill lies in continuity in the playing style regardless of who you lose, like all great coaches are capable of. So if he's capable of all this at an ever changing squad, imagine what kind of continuity he could implement with one that won't be poached?

B. They've beat us 2-1, 1-0 and 3-1, Chelsea 4-1, Liverpool 3-0 and 2-1, City 1-1, Arsenal 3-0. They took 6 points of us and Cheslea last season, we only managed to best them on penalties under De Zerbi and we've apparently got an amazing coach who's spent £400m. De Zerbi regularly out 'tactics' other managers during the games. I've seen Ten Hag struggle to react to anything Brighton implement mid game.

C. There's no smoke without fire. He'll get his chance at a big club this summer. It seems to be Bayern according to Ornstein. He'll do well there no doubt.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Nope - still don’t get it.

Every person on this board can disagree with me and say De Zerbi is a manager worthy of being at Bayern etc. I’m sticking to what I say

Can’t see how he’s any better than what Roberto Martinez did at Wigan. Except Martinez was better because he won something

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Brighton would be above Spurs and Villa if they’d retained Mac Allister, Caceido and not had huge injuries to March and Mitoma.

It’s properly mad to suggest he’s not an exceptional manager.

 

[The Boy]

I've had my ups and dons with De Zerbi, but I can not deny he has been fantastic for Brighton and I hope he stays with us next season.

He has had a mountain to climb this season with the expectations built from last year and a first campaign for the club ever in Europe. Two and half years ago Brighton announced they had a plan to become a top ten premiership club, at the time even for the most ardent Brighton fan, that seemed incredibly ambitious and a bit of a pipe dream. Today it feels very normal and coming tenth would be a disappointment.

We sold Caicedo and MacAllister in the summer, the heart of our midfield, we've lost Mitoma and March for the season, our wide forwards for most of last season. Ferguson, Fati, Pedro, Welbeck, Estupinan have all had lengthy spells out while back ups like Milner and Hinshelwood have also been injured. It's not surprising that our results have reflected that this year, though it's a reflection on De Zerbi that despite it all we're still in touch with the top 6. But what really stands out to me is every player that comes in, plays with the same style, knows their role and I can see a visible development/improvement with nearly all of them.

That points to his excellent coaching not just on a one to one basis, but as a squad as well. There's not one player I can point to in our squad that has underperformed with any kind of consistency.

The downside of De Zerbi is he clearly has a temper and he lets it show publicly, sometimes in press conferences or with the way he treats players. This may not be a bad thing necessarily but it has always worried me a bit and is in stark contrast with Potter who was always incredibly professional in the way he worked publicly.

De Zerbi's tactical acumen is exceptional and both Klopp and Guardiola amongst many many others have recognised that, praising his football and his squad, his man management can for me be improved.

 

[SambaBoy]

I've had my ups and dons with De Zerbi, but I can not deny he has been fantastic for Brighton and I hope he stays with us next season.

He has had a mountain to climb this season with the expectations built from last year and a first campaign for the club ever in Europe. Two and half years ago Brighton announced they had a plan to become a top ten premiership club, at the time even for the most ardent Brighton fan, that seemed incredibly ambitious and a bit of a pipe dream. Today it feels very normal and coming tenth would be a disappointment.

We sold Caicedo and MacAllister in the summer, the heart of our midfield, we've lost Mitoma and March for the season, our wide forwards for most of last season. Ferguson, Fati, Pedro, Welbeck, Estupinan have all had lengthy spells out while back ups like Milner and Hinshelwood have also been injured. It's not surprising that our results have reflected that this year, though it's a reflection on De Zerbi that despite it all we're still in touch with the top 6. But what really stands out to me is every player that comes in, plays with the same style, knows their role and I can see a visible development/improvement with nearly all of them.

That points to his excellent coaching not just on a one to one basis, but as a squad as well. There's not one player I can point to in our squad that has underperformed with any kind of consistency.

The downside of De Zerbi is he clearly has a temper and he lets it show publicly, sometimes in press conferences or with the way he treats players. This may not be a bad thing necessarily but it has always worried me a bit and is in stark contrast with Potter who was always incredibly professional in the way he worked publicly.

De Zerbi's tactical acumen is exceptional and both Klopp and Guardiola amongst many many others have recognised that, praising his football and his squad, his man management can for me be improved.

Good post.

Nice to see some perspective & context in this forum rather than the usual 'he's a fraud' after Brighton get beat or the endless comparisons to ETH.