Right Winger... Who do we go for?

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poacher said:
I could watch Leon Bailey play all day. The dribbling and pace and creativity is a joy to watch. I have no doubt he would end up as a fan favourite if he came to United. Malcolm looks like a good player as does Pusilic. Zaha isn't as good as the other three but he's premiership proven and we have a buyback clause so he would be the cheapest option. For Me Bailey then Malcolm then Pusilic. Another option would be Thomas Lemar. I am a huge fan of Thomas Lemar and think he could play on either wing and centrally, the only fly in the ointment is Liverpool and Arsenal have bumped up his price to stupid levels with their crazy last minute bids. Thomas Lemar at 55m to 60m would have been a great transfer but Arsenal's 92m bid has spoiled that transfer for everyone.
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Completely with you regarding Bailey, Malcolm and, to a certain extent, Pusilic.
Those three would be my first choices, in that order.

I'm not that fussed on Lemar. He isn't as quick as Bailey or Malcolm, nor even as tricky as Zaha.

He is hugely overpriced, no doubt living off of Monaco's success of last season and being associated with Mbappe (same team, same nationality).
 
Invictus said:
Definitely not a winger - he doesn't have the skillset of a winger in terms of nimbleness and beating his marker on a consistent basis, and trying to shoehorn him there would be a waste of his talents as an attacking midfielder. I think this a decent representation of how he operates at Valencia:

Montoya overlaps on the outside channel, and Soler drifts inwards to occupy the space behind Zaza and link up with Parejo and Kondogbia. It's not too dissimilar to how Saúl and Koke are/were used as wide midfielders by Simeone at Atlético - where they occupied the spaces behind Griezmann while linking up with the likes of Gabi and Tiago through the middle:

Wrt. where we could play Soler - that's one position, obviously. He can also play as the #10 (more in the mold of advanced central midfielders like young Baraja or João Moutinho - rather that a technically supreme orchestrator like Aimar or Silva or Özil), as a #8 box-to-box (in the mold of Aaron Ramsey if he improves his end product) and eventually as a holding midfielder when he allies improved passing ability with experience and positional nous.
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Based on what you've said, if we sign him, am I right in thinking this would be the most likely setup?

------Front 3
Pogba --- Soler
--------Matic
 
TheOrgazoid said:
  1. There are five other names on there; any thoughts on my excellent first choices?
  2. Zaha in 2017 is not the same player as Zaha 2013; he works harder, is more of a leader for his team, his generally matured and has a better end product now then he had back then
  3. The Zaha of 2017 would be a far more effective option on our right wing then any of Rashford, Lingard, Mhiki or Mata
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Yes good choices was just commenting we tried him already. Would he come back though?
 
beingshe7don said:
Insigne is 5'4... He'll get bullied in the premiership. Unless you're Messi, you shouldn't be that tall and play in the Premiership.
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He was really good against City a couple of weeks ago and caused them problems. Don't think height is a issue, we have plenty of short players in this league who are some of the best in their positions like Silva, Eriksen, Coutinho and even Kante. If you have quality size doesn't matter.
 
abdo99 said:
He was really good against City a couple of weeks ago and caused them problems. Don't think height is a issue, we have plenty of short players in this league who are some of the best in their positions like Silva, Eriksen, Coutinho and even Kante. If you have quality size doesn't matter.
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Not trying to argue against your point as I agree with it, but Eriksen is most definitely not short as he's about 6ft.
 
Personally I'd like someone like Leon Goretzka to Manchester United. He is carrying Schalke 04 to the Champions League.
 
wolvored said:
We already tried Zaha.
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We really didn't though. Moyes gave him what 2/3 games? then he "banged his daughter" and that was that. The guy deserved more of a chance IMO.
 
Gusjaros said:
Personally I'd like someone like Leon Goretzka to Manchester United. He is carrying Schalke 04 to the Champions League.
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not a winger though, and Bayern bound for sure. I'd be very surprised if he ended up somewhere else.

Pulisic would be my choice for sure. Very talented and flexible player, and a United fan to boot. I like Bailey too, but I think Pulisic has been way more consistent and is ready for that step. Not sure if Bailey is, I think another year at Leverkusen wouldn't hurt his development.
 
beingshe7don said:
Insigne is 5'4... He'll get bullied in the premiership. Unless you're Messi, you shouldn't be that tall and play in the Premiership.
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nah size wouldn't be an issue if the player has the ability and mentality. Zola played in a much more physical premier league than we have now and he flourished. He was bigger though at 5 ft 5in. I haven't seen enough of Insigne to make a judgement as a player but I wouldn't use size as a negative against any player. You could be 5 ft 8in and a complete chicken, or 5 ft 4 in and game as anything. I'm not sure a 5ft 4 in player would appeal to Jose these days although back in the day he signed wright phillips who was 5 ft 5
 
Insigne from napoli is top class but not sure we coukd get him .realistically id say mahrez or sanchez.
 
beingshe7don said:
Insigne is 5'4... He'll get bullied in the premiership. Unless you're Messi, you shouldn't be that tall and play in the Premiership.
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He's strong on the ball and extremely technically gifted. His height means nothing considering the circumstances. Don't forget, lots of short players have been a success in this league.
 
Can we just get a bloody winger that is quick and can cross a ball well?

I swear there was a time you could get one if these. It's not nostalgia. They did exist.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Woody and Mourinho are legit insane if they splurge the fee and wages on that sicknote.
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I could see something like a flat 30M to Madrid and 10M every 30 games he plays for us. They get the 60M fee he's worth if he gives us 3 season of good but not great health and if not still bank at least 40M or so. If it works out really well here maybe Madrid get 70-80M.
 
Mcking said:
He is a forward and plays on the left. Too similar to Martial in terms of position and what they offer. He is not our man.
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Agree totally. We'd have to move Martial right and teach him how to cross. Though it's worth noting that Pep has been playing Sane out left and Sterling out right sometimes so it's not crazy to think that wingers might go back to playing on their "natural" wing more than we've seen the last 5-10 years (when they all play inverted and look to cut in and shoot or playmake/assist with the midfield battle).

Also Insigne sets up the right footed Callejon playing on the right a lot, though Callejon might make the best off the ball runs in behind of any winger in Europe and Martial might make the worst/least.

But yeah, it probably doesn't make sense with Mourinho as manager.

If Insigne leaves I could see him as Madrid's left-winger with Cristiano finally moving up top (or leaving) or maybe at Bayern as the Ribery replacement at LW. I guess Barca if Griezmann falls through would be a perfect fit, really:

------------Suarez-------------
Insigne----Messi------Dembele

could wreck teams, and if they want to play 4-3-3 in tougher games and everyone is healthy, just let Dembele or Insigne be the super sub coming on with 30 minutes to run at opponents.
 
Flying_Heckfish said:
We'll sign Griezmann and shoe-horn him in. For better or worse.
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Yes looks that way. Woody likes players for marketing purposes. What is more marketable than a pretty French boy with flowing blonde hair. Wouldn't be surprised if we also went for Pulisic at some stage to open up the USA market.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
Completely with you regarding Bailey, Malcolm and, to a certain extent, Pusilic.
Those three would be my first choices, in that order.

I'm not that fussed on Lemar. He isn't as quick as Bailey or Malcolm, nor even as tricky as Zaha.

He is hugely overpriced, no doubt living off of Monaco's success of last season and being associated with Mbappe (same team, same nationality).
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Lemar's has enough pace to be a problem and had the football and tactical brain of a top playmaker. You seriously underestimate him
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Lemar's has enough pace to be a problem and had the football and tactical brain of a top playmaker. You seriously underestimate him
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Yes, he was the brain in that monaco team. His crossing ability is top notch too. He plays mostly on the left which isn't ideal for us, but he could be a very good player for top teams that need him - could reach Muller's level.
 
think we need a 10 and a RW/RAM so Griezemann plus 1 for me

Pulisic looks great and versatile - tucks inside a bit but maybe this would suit us if we buy a top attacking RB

think we need an out and out winger though - Loved Dembele and initially wasn't overly excited about Perisic. With hindsight he is a big miss and I understand the need for a player like him who can cross
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Lemar's has enough pace to be a problem and had the football and tactical brain of a top playmaker. You seriously underestimate him
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I think that what people underestimate is the pace of the Premier League.

Players in European leagues that are labeled as being "quick for their league" or "having enough pace" are usually found out as being actually not that quick against Premier League opposition because the average pace is that much higher.

In terms of quality, Moussa Dembele is the best player in the Scottish League. If he came to the PL he likely wouldn't be the best player in his new league. The standards are different.

Same with the PL when considering which players have enough pace.

Same thing happened with Mhiki. People said "yeah he isn't Bale but he is quick enough"... well yeah, in the German League, where the average player isn't that quick.
How many players have you seen Mhiki beat with pace? Put him up against a quick full back and he is useless.

I fear that would be similar with Lemar: Lemar's effectiveness in the French League would be dulled in England due having to pay against far more athletic (and better quality) full backs.

If we want a winger that beats the opponent one-on-one then we need to sign a speedster with skill.
If we want another playmaker on the wing and neither Mata or Mhiki are doing it for you then sure, Lemar would be a decent choice.
 
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TheOrgazoid said:
I think that what people underestimate is the pace of the Premier League.

Players in European leagues that are labeled as being "quick for their league" or "having enough pace" are usually found out as being actually not that quick against Premier League opposition because the average pace is that much higher.

In terms of quality, Moussa Dembele is the best player in the Scottish League. If he came to the PL he likely wouldn't be the best player in his new league. The standards are different.

Same with the PL when considering which players have enough pace.

Same thing happened with Mhiki. People said "yeah he isn't Bale but he is quick enough"... well yeah, in the German League, where the average player isn't that quick.
How many players have you seen Mhiki beat with pace? Put him up against a quick full back and he is useless.

I fear that would be similar with Lemar: Lemar's effectiveness in the French League would be dulled in England due having to pay against far more athletic (and better quality) full backs.

If we want a winger that beats the opponent one-on-one then we need to sign a speedster with skill.
If we want another playmaker on the wing and neither Mata or Mhiki are doing it for you then sure, Lemar would be a decent choice.
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Nice points, but you kinda talked down on him in your first post. We are not in for him though, so nothing to worry about.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
I fear that would be similar with Lemar: Lemar's effectiveness in the French League would be dulled in England due having to pay against far more athletic (and better quality) full backs.
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Do you know what league guys like Mendy and Aurier came from? And what league guys like Evra, Sagna and Clichy came from.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
Do you know what league guys like Mendy and Aurier came from? And what league guys like Evra, Sagna and Clichy came from.
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All of the players you have just named were noted from their absolute speed in the French League.
That translated to still retaining an speed advantage in the Premier League.

I don't think Lemar is known for being a lightning player, currently. Based just on speed, if he came here then would he be considered that quick? I don't think so.

That's my point.
Note that I was purposely not considering Lemar's tactical awareness or technical capabilities in this discussion.
 
My two picks are Leon Bailey and Malcolm.

Failing those, my two picks are Pusilic are Jadon Sancho.

Failing those, it would be Zaha and Reiss Nelson.

I would be really happy and excited with any new of those pairings: I think that they would all vastly improve our attacking threat and balance.
 
I wouldn’t say no to taking a punt on that lad from Leicester, speed and a good crosser. As long as he wasn’t the only signing.
 
TheOrgazoid said:
I think that what people underestimate is the pace of the Premier League.

Players in European leagues that are labeled as being "quick for their league" or "having enough pace" are usually found out as being actually not that quick against Premier League opposition because the average pace is that much higher.

In terms of quality, Moussa Dembele is the best player in the Scottish League. If he came to the PL he likely wouldn't be the best player in his new league. The standards are different.

Same with the PL when considering which players have enough pace.

Same thing happened with Mhiki. People said "yeah he isn't Bale but he is quick enough"... well yeah, in the German League, where the average player isn't that quick.
How many players have you seen Mhiki beat with pace? Put him up against a quick full back and he is useless.

I fear that would be similar with Lemar: Lemar's effectiveness in the French League would be dulled in England due having to pay against far more athletic (and better quality) full backs.

If we want a winger that beats the opponent one-on-one then we need to sign a speedster with skill.
If we want another playmaker on the wing and neither Mata or Mhiki are doing it for you then sure, Lemar would be a decent choice.
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I think you are overestimating the bar for what is required to play wide in the EPL. There are only 3 things. Either you have pace to burn with dribbling ability or you have decent pace and a brain much quicker than a standard full back, with dribbling added on as a bonus. Given that the EPL is a league in which David Silva, Pires and David Beckham in the past have been dominant players on the flank, I don't think pace is really the most crucial asset in being a winger in the league. Though in United's case we just need wide men with pace and wicked skill to add a new dimension to our play
 
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