Tell him to get a plaster. He won't get it.
Right then, Pak v India
- Thread starter Dumbstar
- Start date
Me too.Expected something very different.But then again Lahore's traditionally been a flat track.Not this much but yes, its seen some dull draws..Spoony said:
Faisalabad promises to be different.They're going to leave grass on the wicket and Sami should come good there.Doubt it, knowing how bad he is...Akhtar will be a major threat.I think they should just drop Ul Hasan and go for Umar Gul if he's fit.
Pathan's going to rip them apart.
What do you think of Kaneria?
DONADO said:Me too.Expected something very different.But then again Lahore's traditionally been a flat track.Not this much but yes, its seen some dull draws..
Faisalabad promises to be different.They're going to leave grass on the wicket and Sami should come good there.Doubt it, knowing how bad he is...Akhtar will be a major threat.I think they should just drop Ul Hasan and go for Umar Gul if he's fit.
Pathan's going to rip them apart.
What do you think of Kaneria?
Kaneria? he's alright. Although I was impressed with the way kept on trying against us. Not as good as Mushaq Ahmed and Abdul Qadir, their other two great leg spinners. That said, he's only young, suppose he could improve.
DONADO said:
Naveed's been a real revelation this year...
A shame India couldn't break the record, so nearly there eh! Just looking at Sehwag and Dravid's record and Sehwag averages over 57 and Dravid close to 59. If you include Tendulkars average of around 57 then that is quite incredible to have 3 players with such high averages and those players aren't minnow bashers like Kallis They have smacked the best about and proven pretty much everywhere. Even the 'great Aussies' can't match that when you look stats wise.
Don't rate Kaneria at all, people rave about him but I don't see anything special about him.
I think India's batting is superior to England's as they have many more proven players around the world but India are well behind when it comes to fast bowling.
England put a lot of effort over the last 5 years to develop top fast bowlers and it has paid off for them. Though their true test is to do well in Asian countries. The great non Asian players come to these countries with plans and make those plans work. Look at Ponting and Warne, until those 2 sort their records out in India it will forever remain a blemish on their records. I think some of the English bowlers were thinking they would go through the Pakistani's with the same tactics they used against the Aussies. In these countries you have to attack the bowlers stumps and pads, not the edge of their bat and I feel that is why they didn't have a good series in Pakistan. Variation is the key and there wasn't much. If anything that poor series will mean they will go to India much better prepared.
They have smacked the best about and proven pretty much everywhere. Even the 'great Aussies' can't match that when you look stats wise.Don't rate Kaneria at all, people rave about him but I don't see anything special about him.
Spoony said:
I think India's batting is superior to England's as they have many more proven players around the world but India are well behind when it comes to fast bowling.
England put a lot of effort over the last 5 years to develop top fast bowlers and it has paid off for them. Though their true test is to do well in Asian countries. The great non Asian players come to these countries with plans and make those plans work. Look at Ponting and Warne, until those 2 sort their records out in India it will forever remain a blemish on their records. I think some of the English bowlers were thinking they would go through the Pakistani's with the same tactics they used against the Aussies. In these countries you have to attack the bowlers stumps and pads, not the edge of their bat and I feel that is why they didn't have a good series in Pakistan. Variation is the key and there wasn't much. If anything that poor series will mean they will go to India much better prepared.
Slabber said:
That one was a roaring success the first time
DONADO said:
He gave the Aussies all sorts of trouble down here, I liked the look of him.
Sultan said:
No, no, Sultan. Donado's right. We have a rubbish bowling lineup that hasn't improved, well, since last year.
Let's catch them by surprise rather than talk about breaking records and then getting caught behind next day.
Melbourne Red said:
Slabber's a sh*t head. Or, as we know him now, Hu Flung Dung.
Spoony said:
Kaneria would become better than Mustaq Ahmed but its too early to warrant a comparison with Qadir. Personally I would rate Saqlain higher than Qadir
another classy subcontinent average improving wicket
vijay said:
Kaneria? possibly. That said I did like Mushtaq Ahmed, I thought he had a lot of variety, but always seemed like a copy of Abdul Qadir, only just not as good. Qadir was quality though, was a magican, great to watch. A character no doubt. Saqlain better than Qadir? That's a toughy, they're both the best spinners Pakistan have produced over the last few decades. It's a shame that Saqlain's gone out of the game, if I were a Pakistan fan, I'd want him to get back into the fold somehow, as he's a lot better than Kaneria. I guess they just want a nucleus of young players around the management team. Can't say I blame them. That said that Naved bloke's got a bald head hasn't he? young my arse. . .but I do like him, got a fighting spirit, love the way he flings himself around the field and is always willing to bowl.
I'd never bet on Pakistan winning though.
That's just plain wrong.
But also funny.
But also funny.
I agree with that. Our batting is better than Englands, and their bowling is better. As you point out, their fast bowling is far ahead of ours, but we obviously have better spinners..JazzG said:
Our missing link is the second seamer. Pathan is the best young cricketer in the world IMO and he can virtually do anything.. not many more lethal bowlers with the new ball in swinging conditions.. But alongside him we need a genuine quick, an inform Zaheer Khan(tho not a genuine quick) would have been great, but he hasnt been the same bowler he used to be, for quite awhile.. if he can get back to form, of which there seem to be some signs from his efforts in the domestic game, then it would really help.
As for this series, Pakistan were defenately on the defensive. Last time they prepared green tops and couldnt handle Pathan and Balaji, so im guessing they feared that happening.. It would have made no sense to prepare spinner friendly tracks, because both our spinners are far better than Kaneria. But their best bet is to prepare tracks with lots of grass on them, and to hope Shoaib, Rana and Sami get early breakthroughs.
The groudsmen got it wrong, not the Pakistani team!!! Obviously the team requested a bouncy wicket for Shoaib, Sami and Rana to use their pace on but the groundsmen were not able to provide (weather, change in venue by the INDIANS at the last moment!!, etc.).
I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Pakistani were afraid of Balaji, etc, as he isn't here anymore!! Pathan can't do it all by himself, and he's not better than Rana on such wickets (as England and Australia will testify).
If anything, we have better green pitch bowlers than India this time - Rana, Shoaib and Sami. A green pitch would have suited us more than the Indians. Again, I reiterate, the groundsmen got it wrong. They're human too, after all.
I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Pakistani were afraid of Balaji, etc, as he isn't here anymore!!
Pathan can't do it all by himself, and he's not better than Rana on such wickets (as England and Australia will testify).If anything, we have better green pitch bowlers than India this time - Rana, Shoaib and Sami. A green pitch would have suited us more than the Indians. Again, I reiterate, the groundsmen got it wrong. They're human too, after all.
First of all, usually the captain, coach, board and co. have some sort of say in the preperation of the pitch.Dumpstar said:The groudsmen got it wrong, not the Pakistani team!!! Obviously the team requested a bouncy wicket for Shoaib, Sami and Rana to use their pace on but the groundsmen were not able to provide (weather, change in venue by the INDIANS at the last moment!!, etc.).
I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that Pakistani were afraid of Balaji, etc, as he isn't here anymore!!
If anything, we have better green pitch bowlers than India this time - Rana, Shoaib and Sami. A green pitch would have suited us more than the Indians. Again, I reiterate, the groundsmen got it wrong. They're human too, after all.
As for Pathan, pleast dont compare him to Rana.. i think the latter is a useful bowler and has a lot of heart, but Pathan is something special.. On conditions that have something for the pacers, hes as lethal as anyone, and hes still a kid. He does have to improve on flattter tracks, but surely that Lahore pitch cannot be used to measure anyones ability.
Again, it would seem that Pakistan would be the team to benefit with the track being green, but as we saw, it didnt turn out that way last year. Honestly theres not much to choose between the two teams bowling attacks.. we have far better spinners.. but Pakistans pace attack is more solid. We have Pathan who id prefer to any bowler on either team, but his pace partner is basically our biggest problem. At different times Balaji, Nehra, Agarkar and Zaheer have done well, but all have had their problems.
Awful pitch, not for the batsmen mind.
If I remember correctly, Sehwag, in a post match interview, said that they came out the bat on the 5th day only to get the record and since it wasn't to be, they promptly went off due to "bad light".
Does that mean they risked "injury" to bat for the record but nothing doing for the few people who'd paid and come in to watch? Or did the light genuinely deteriorate that quickly?
If I remember correctly, Sehwag, in a post match interview, said that they came out the bat on the 5th day only to get the record and since it wasn't to be, they promptly went off due to "bad light".
Does that mean they risked "injury" to bat for the record but nothing doing for the few people who'd paid and come in to watch? Or did the light genuinely deteriorate that quickly?
amolbhatia100 said:
Pathan is a very good bowler, but so is Rana Naveed. Pathan is slightly ahead of him in ranking and lethalness, but only very slightly. Pathan is nowhere near a great bowler yet, but he is promising...however, you would have thought all those lessons by Akram would have propelled him to greater things by now!
Maybe he should stop concentrating on his batting and get back to only bowling.
Balaji, Nehra, Agarkar and Zaheer are so unpredicatable (mostly rubbish) that they'd fit in with Zimbabwe. Sami is rubbish too, but not as bad as those bowlers - at least he has genuine pace. Then we have swing bowlers who always get injured/banned like Gul and Shabbir. You do not have this level of talent in your bowling department.
Agreed you have much better spinners than us, though.
I would prefer Shoaib over Pathan. And in your heart so would you.
Dumpstar said:
There's no comparison. Shoaib's on a different level as a bowler. But I think Irfan can bat, and isn't just a bowler, which is why Amol and others rate him.
Pathan needs to get his bowling sorted out before he worries about his batting. He went from bowling near 90mph reverse swinging beauties to 77mph average deliveries. India don't need him as an all rounder, they need him as a bowler more urgently and I think his batting can be sorted out later on his career once he has sorted his bowling out. He needs pace, he relies a lot on swing and you aren't going to get much swing bowling under 80mph. Look at Hoggard, not ultra quick but just enough pace to get good swing which is why he has done well in the last year.
If India are to stand any chance in this series they need to add another fast bowler in. Last time they were here they were lucky to have Pathan and Balaji in the form of their life and had a 3rd seamer, on top of that had Kumble who chipped in with wickets.
Nehra is a bit expensive but usually picks up wickets. Agarkar is rubbish, jury is still out on Balaji and Zaheer seems to be past it. I remember reading about this RP Singh guy and he seems to be a nice neat and tidy bowler, surely can't be worse than those other guys!
As for Sami, he is much worse than those players. All hype and no substance, bowling shit balls at 90mph does not make you better than someone bowling shit balls at 80mph!
If India are to stand any chance in this series they need to add another fast bowler in. Last time they were here they were lucky to have Pathan and Balaji in the form of their life and had a 3rd seamer, on top of that had Kumble who chipped in with wickets.
Dumpstar said:
Nehra is a bit expensive but usually picks up wickets. Agarkar is rubbish, jury is still out on Balaji and Zaheer seems to be past it. I remember reading about this RP Singh guy and he seems to be a nice neat and tidy bowler, surely can't be worse than those other guys!
As for Sami, he is much worse than those players. All hype and no substance, bowling shit balls at 90mph does not make you better than someone bowling shit balls at 80mph!
Who is this RP Singh bloke, took 3 wickets on the first day of the 2nd test.
Dubai_Devil said:
A very typical medium fast bowler...nothing to get excited about.
Have you been watching the 2nd test?
Is the wicket as bad as the one in the 1st test?
Is the wicket as bad as the one in the 1st test?
The wicket isn't 'as bad' as Lahore because it would be very hard to maintain that high standard. However, its not a results wicket and India will have their batting practice when they eventually come out.
The only thing we can hope for is a bit of skid for the medium pacers or turn for the spinners, but don't hold your breath.
Saying that PATHAN was atrocious and anonymous again, unsurprisingly to me.
The only thing we can hope for is a bit of skid for the medium pacers or turn for the spinners, but don't hold your breath.
Saying that PATHAN was atrocious and anonymous again, unsurprisingly to me.
Dubai_Devil said:
It's got draw written all over
Unless one side royally mess up
What a shite pitch, potentially good series is halfway ruined already.
No comparison between the two.. Pathan is streets ahead. Theres a reason he won best young cricketer at last years(or the one before) ICC awards. True hes still to learn the art of bowling on dead pitches, well if you can call it an art. But on pitches that have some help for the pacers, and especially with the new ball, hes fabulous. IMO the biggest talent in the game. Hes had some problems with his pace(which for some reason hes cut down) and grip(according to Imran), but all this talk is overrated. Hes just coming off a very good few series against South Africa and SL where he did well with both the bat and ball, getting wickets early on and contributing with the bat. Its just on these dead pitches in Pakistan that hes struggled(as have most pacers)Dumpstar said:
As for choosing between the two.. i pick Irfan simply because of his age.. Shoaib is devastating off and on, but hes 30 i think and he doesnt have long.. Pathan is 20(around).. hes got the talent to be amongst the best bowlers in the world for the next decade and become a good lower order batsman. Its like how Manchester United fans look at Rooney.. its hard for me to critisize Pathan because hes doing so much and got so much going for him, at such a young age.
Poor comparison Amol. Rooney has proved to be a great world class 'mature' player at 20, whereas Pathan is still considered a 'great talent' at this age.
If you were playing against Australia tomorrow anywhere in the world, not in three years time but tomorrow, who would you choose? I think everyone, including you, would choose a 30 year old Shoaib over Pathan.
Pathan is Theo Walcott whereas Shoaib is Thierry Henry would be a more accurate summation. (ps. no I'm not an A*se supporter!)
Since winning the best youngster award in what seems like distant memory, he has got mixed up with what he was all about. He now wants to be an all-rounder when he hasn't yet wowed the world properly as a bowler. As a result he is becoming an average medium paced bowler who is losing that raw talent he once had. Shoaib is more focussed on his goals, therefore more deadly.
If you were playing against Australia tomorrow anywhere in the world, not in three years time but tomorrow, who would you choose? I think everyone, including you, would choose a 30 year old Shoaib over Pathan.
Pathan is Theo Walcott whereas Shoaib is Thierry Henry would be a more accurate summation. (ps. no I'm not an A*se supporter!)
Since winning the best youngster award in what seems like distant memory, he has got mixed up with what he was all about. He now wants to be an all-rounder when he hasn't yet wowed the world properly as a bowler. As a result he is becoming an average medium paced bowler who is losing that raw talent he once had. Shoaib is more focussed on his goals, therefore more deadly.
I agree Pathan is not "Rooney" yet
Shoaib is a strange one though, he normally has one great game in 10, rest of the time he is descent or average. Granted he wins you the game single handedly on that one occassion but he is no where near Waqar or Wasim,never will be. Pathan has the potential to be.
Shoaib is a strange one though, he normally has one great game in 10, rest of the time he is descent or average. Granted he wins you the game single handedly on that one occassion but he is no where near Waqar or Wasim,never will be. Pathan has the potential to be.
Dumpstar said:
Youv not been watching.. he was great against SA getting wickets early and getting runs lower down the order. Did well against Lanka too in the ODIs. People have a habit of jumping to conlcusions.. he has developed a couple of technical faults it seems, but its no big deal.. awhile back they said he wasnt swinging it, and then he right back to his best taking early wickets. Sometimes people forget hes 20 and bowls a lot on rubbish pitches like the lahore one.
Your first comparison is a horrible one.. Pathan has already made an impact on the world stage.. barring the odd series on flat batting tracks hes been our main bowler consistantly getting wickets with the new ball.. i dont see how you can compare him to some 16 year old doing pretty well in a lower English league. Pathan has already arrived, now its a case of truely establishing himself.
And while Walcott may dream of being the next Henry, i hope for bigger things from Pathan than to be the next Shoaib. Shoaib IMO wasted a lot of talent.. not that he hasnt been good, but he had a chance to be great.. he will never be remembered alongside names like Akram and co. Hopefully Pathan will get somewhere close to thatr.. and his batting just gives him a new dimention.
to compare pathan to shoaib is dumb, shoaib is miles ahead, simple as.
by the way i agree that shoaib wasted some of his talent, but he has been great still in test match cricket, and yes i said GREAT, check his strike rate and average, his awesome for someone bowling at his pace,
pathan was helped by wasim akram but he will never be anywhere as good as that imo........infact to me, pathan has gone backwards, he looked really promising before, now his just another indian bowler at the moment, well his been for a while, but theres no doubt he has talent.........but shoaib was more talented as a bowler when he younger......and while pace is not everyting, the fact that shoaib has hit 100mph is something like whoa!lol.......but i mean, i aint saying thats why his better, but for pathan to become great, he needs to seroiusly improve his pace, wasim was bowling at 90mph when he was young and still bowling at about 80-87 mph when he was older, pathan has a long way to go.........
by the way i agree that shoaib wasted some of his talent, but he has been great still in test match cricket, and yes i said GREAT, check his strike rate and average, his awesome for someone bowling at his pace,
pathan was helped by wasim akram but he will never be anywhere as good as that imo........infact to me, pathan has gone backwards, he looked really promising before, now his just another indian bowler at the moment, well his been for a while, but theres no doubt he has talent.........but shoaib was more talented as a bowler when he younger......and while pace is not everyting, the fact that shoaib has hit 100mph is something like whoa!lol.......but i mean, i aint saying thats why his better, but for pathan to become great, he needs to seroiusly improve his pace, wasim was bowling at 90mph when he was young and still bowling at about 80-87 mph when he was older, pathan has a long way to go.........
Well..Pathan's not doing much to help my arguments.He's been frankly rather terrible...but everyone is allowed to have an off test..but I think the problem is that he's just not found his rythm yet.He's not settled into the whole thing of bowlingin these shite fecking pitches which are just useless for Test cricket.What fecking preparation by the Pakistanis...
That said, great batting from Dhoni and Pathan today..as well as Dravid and Laxman.They're just absolute class when they play together..
That new bloke in the Pakistan team...has he ever heard of ever pitching it beyond the halfway point??That said..it was rather effective tactics..until Dhoni came..
I told you Sami's fecking useless...good job of getting him out of there.
And Dumstar I definitely doubt you've seen Pathan yet.Comparing him to Shoaib now is daft..they're two very different bowlers.
Was it just me or does Shoaib still have that weird jerk before bowling his express ones? He looked to be chucking one or two when he was bowling bouncers....
That said, great batting from Dhoni and Pathan today..as well as Dravid and Laxman.They're just absolute class when they play together..
That new bloke in the Pakistan team...has he ever heard of ever pitching it beyond the halfway point??That said..it was rather effective tactics..until Dhoni came..
I told you Sami's fecking useless...good job of getting him out of there.
And Dumstar I definitely doubt you've seen Pathan yet.Comparing him to Shoaib now is daft..they're two very different bowlers.
Was it just me or does Shoaib still have that weird jerk before bowling his express ones?
He looked to be chucking one or two when he was bowling bouncers....Backward my fecking arse...UNITED_OG said:
Go watch him...he needs to improve his pace, yes, but saying that he's gone backwards is just stupid.
Test Matches : Batting and Fielding
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
19 23 2 561 93 26.71 46.67 0 4 6 0
Test Matches : Bowling
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
636.1 145 2041 74 27.58 7-59 6 2 51.58 3.20
One Day Internationals : Batting and Fielding
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
48 33 10 613 83 26.65 85.02 0 3 6 -
One Day Internationals : Bowling
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
409.5 24 2049 79 25.93 5-27 2 1 25.93 4.99
Try and tell me he's been going downhill...
For 20 year old to be suddenly thrust as the strike bowler is a huge responsibility.
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
19 23 2 561 93 26.71 46.67 0 4 6 0
Test Matches : Bowling
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
636.1 145 2041 74 27.58 7-59 6 2 51.58 3.20
One Day Internationals : Batting and Fielding
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
48 33 10 613 83 26.65 85.02 0 3 6 -
One Day Internationals : Bowling
O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Econ
409.5 24 2049 79 25.93 5-27 2 1 25.93 4.99
Try and tell me he's been going downhill...
For 20 year old to be suddenly thrust as the strike bowler is a huge responsibility.
Actually the Akram Pathan comparison seems rather relevant...even though its a bit dunb considering they played in entirey different conditions..and Akram was lucky to have senior pace bowlers like Imran to help him a lot and a strike partner like Wqar.But even so...the first 20 tests for Akram and Pathan are almost identical..the only difference being the averages(Pathan has a higher bowling and batting average) And the ODI'S are in favour of Pathan as he's taken more wicktes in 48 ODI's and scored many more runs...
One more fecked-up snorefest. I'm only bothering to watch the highlights.
Who knows anything about the Karachi pitch? Is it likely to play any better? Can't be worse surely.
Who knows anything about the Karachi pitch? Is it likely to play any better? Can't be worse surely.
Karachi should be a result pitch as the weather is better for the overall conditions and there is sea-air.
I'm shocked and disappointed the head groundsman could not have produced better at Lahore and Faisalabad. Not surprisingly it was the same groundsman with the same lack of imagination. He wasn't under Pakistani orders to prepare this kind of pitch, he was just not up to the job.
The ICC might want a gentle word with the PCB about hiring qualified staff (or qualifying them properly), and I'm saying that as a Pakistani!
I'm shocked and disappointed the head groundsman could not have produced better at Lahore and Faisalabad. Not surprisingly it was the same groundsman with the same lack of imagination. He wasn't under Pakistani orders to prepare this kind of pitch, he was just not up to the job.
The ICC might want a gentle word with the PCB about hiring qualified staff (or qualifying them properly), and I'm saying that as a Pakistani!
Well I certainly hope it wasn't Pakistani orders to prepare such a pitch and i'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But they certainly don't help their cause by picking seven batsmen. Going in with three regular bowlers - Akhtar, Asif and Kaneria and hoping that part-timers like Afridi, Malik and Razzaq will do the rest of the job in getting the Indian batting line-up out is extremely unadventurous.
The Indians showed more enterprise in atleast going in with five bowlers even if they all bowled crap. Its easy to speculate that the pitches might've been part of an overall play-it-safe approach by Woolmer and Inzy.
The Indians showed more enterprise in atleast going in with five bowlers even if they all bowled crap. Its easy to speculate that the pitches might've been part of an overall play-it-safe approach by Woolmer and Inzy.
DONADO said:
shoaib wasnt throwing the ball, his arm is double jointed or someshit, i dunno the word, but its like it bends both ways, he showed it in tv, he doesnt throw the ball.......dude i feel u got some serious hate against pakistani players....pathan did score a good amount of runs today no doubt, but in regards to his bowling, i think he has gone backwards, and i dont help him playing on shitty asain pitches all the time, thats why shoaib akthar is such an amazing bowler, speaking of the match though, its feckin pathetic cricket
just more average increasing pitches for those indians and pakistanis