Renato Sanches

[Enigma_87]

William Carvalho was even more highly rated too. I'm sure his price value has plummeted.

He was loaned out 2 seasons before he made his mark. Given our connections in Belgium I'd say we could've snapped him a year before his value increased tenfold if we followed him there. He was also regular for the Portuguese youth teams as well. That's my idea, surely bringing in(loaning out) talents when they haven't made 20 apps for the first team is better than paying 60m for them just couple of months, or a year, later.

He is 18. His price is only going to increase the older he gets.

if it works out - sure. For Anderson it didn't.

 

[prath92]

Not really. He could prove to be injury prone, and more significantly he could not be all that good. Loads of young players have been touted for big money which puts off clubs and in the end they turn out not be worth the hype.

Which is why they scouted him for 20 games. Plus this isn't some transfer deadline day signing. The people who sign off on transfers wouldn't sign off on a transfer this early if they weren't reasonably confident in him.

 

[Enigma_87]

Of course its crap. Pereira Verela Fosu Mensah Pogba Januzaj all crap scouting indeed

Sure, for how many years?

Varela also is far from being a success, same goes for Januzaj whose development stalled. Pereira we're yet to see how he goes and same for TFM. the only name there is Pogba and was 5 years ago.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Sure, for how many years?

Varela also is far from being a success, same goes for Januzaj whose development stalled. Pereira we're yet to see how he goes and same for TFM. the only name there is Pogba and was 5 years ago.

Your making the mistake of misjudging scouts, all they do is spot talent and those players have it in abundance. Of Januzai doesn't make it it's not down to talent it's attitude but that isn't the scouts job.

 

[Adisa]

Didn't he call Welbeck worldclass before we faced them.

 

[Enigma_87]

Your making the mistake of misjudging scouts, all they do is spot talent and those players have it in abundance. Of Januzai doesn't make it it's not down to talent it's attitude but that isn't the scouts job.

Well either way something doesn't sound right.

Sanches for example has played in every national youth formation since 2012, then he played additional 30-40 games for Benfica B, then only just after the beginning of the season he played couple of games for the first team, signed a new contract where a high release clause was slapped and just after 20 games or so for the first team we're ready to pay 60m? I mean really?

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Your making the mistake of misjudging scouts, all they do is spot talent and those players have it in abundance. Of Januzai doesn't make it it's not down to talent it's attitude but that isn't the scouts job.

To be honest, assessing a player's quality, physique and mentality are all part of the scout's job, especially at a club like Man Utd. It's a lot easier to spot players that can make it excel at youth and reserve level than to find ones that excel at first team level. Our scouts haven't been good enough at the latter.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Really dont want him, far too much money. We could get the likes of gundogan, Kroos or even kante for much cheaper.

At this point I want established/experienced players not an overrated youngster that could flop like Memphis.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

To be honest, assessing a player's quality, physique and mentality are all part of the scout's job, especially at a club like Man Utd. It's a lot easier to spot players that can make it excel at youth and reserve level than to find ones that excel at first team level. Our scouts haven't been good enough at the latter.

Well honestly I think that just comes down to luck, and I guess in that regard we have been unlucky, if you want mind reader scouts then you'll be waiting forever but they certainly haven't done a lot wrong in my book.

 

[Adisa]

Really dont want him, far too much money. We could get the likes of gundogan, Kroos or even kante for much cheaper.

At this point I want established/experienced players not an overrated youngster that could flop like Memphis.

Or could be a success like Martial. Point is you really don't know. Established experienced players are not immune to being a flop.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well honestly I think that just comes down to luck, and I guess in that regard we have been unlucky, if you want mind reader scouts then you'll be waiting forever but they certainly haven't done a lot wrong in my book.

You can call it luck, but who was the last young player that we picked and became first team regular - like for example Bayern with Alaba? I honestly can't remember.

 

[Bestie07]

Really dont want him, far too much money. We could get the likes of gundogan, Kroos or even kante for much cheaper.

At this point I want established/experienced players not an overrated youngster that could flop like Memphis.

We should be all over Kante but sadly not even the red tops are linking us with him.

Enigma_87's post is interesting though and we really should be doing better with talent identification. He may well turn out to be the next Seedorf, but we should be identifying these players before they get sixty million euros slapped on their heads.

 

[Adisa]

Can't wait till he comes and the endless discussions about his fee can end.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Well honestly I think that just comes down to luck, and I guess in that regard we have been unlucky, if you want mind reader scouts then you'll be waiting forever but they certainly haven't done a lot wrong in my book.

You don't need to be a mind reader to have an educated opinion on a player's attitude.

 

[Scorpy]

Can't wait till he comes and the endless discussions about his fee can end.

Same here. It's incredibly tedious.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Can't wait till he comes and the endless discussions about his fee can end.

The discussion will only end if he is good. If he isn't you will never hear the end of it.

 

[Adisa]

Same here. It's incredibly tedious.

I think some here should apply to start running the club.

 

[Adisa]

The discussion will only end if he is good. If he isn't you will never hear the end of it.

At least we all will see him play. I find it incredibly difficult to engage in back and forth a about the fee when he hasn't even kicked a ball for us. That is if he even does.

 

[podurban2]

Can't wait till he comes and the endless discussions about his fee can end.

Really... We all know €60mn is overpriced, obviously. Do I personally care that much? Not really. It's such a meaningless discussion.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think some here should apply to start running the club.

Or we can apply for a job. Given how LvG is still at his it's not like the club is expecting results or something

 

[Cassidy]

Sure, for how many years?

Varela also is far from being a success, same goes for Januzaj whose development stalled. Pereira we're yet to see how he goes and same for TFM. the only name there is Pogba and was 5 years ago.

The scouts job is to find talent, all of them have it in abundance, what happens after that is down to the club/manager/coaching
Our scouting has been very good of late

 

[Adisa]

Or we can apply for a job. Given how LvG is still at his it's not like the club is expecting results or something

Lol. I was expecting that kind of response.

 

[Enigma_87]

The scouts job is to find talent, all of them have it in abundance, what happens after that is down to the club/manager/coaching
Our scouting has been very good of late

My point is spotting them earlier, not just after 20 games at Benfica and in the CL where pretty much everybody who is interested in football will watch him.

If their job is just that to spot a talent then how do you measure scout's contribution? There are loads of talents all over the world. It's nice to bring up names like TFM, Varela, etc but really they have only played in handful of matches it's not like they are already success stories.

I'm sure all scouts that watch youth games regularly can tell you who the talents are, but then again there's more than that. There still has to be a projection of that talent if he's good enough to be a squad player, potential to be first teamer or even a star.

 

[Cassidy]

My point is spotting them earlier, not just after 20 games at Benfica and in the CL where pretty much everybody who is interested in football will watch him.

If their job is just that to spot a talent then how do you measure scout's contribution? There are loads of talents all over the world. It's nice to bring up names like TFM, Varela, etc but really they have only played in handful of matches it's not like they are already success stories.

I'm sure all scouts that watch youth games regularly can tell you who the talents are, but then again there's more than that. There still has to be a projection of that talent if he's good enough to be a squad player, potential to be first teamer or even a star.

And I named plenty where we did that.
On those let wait and see which of them go on to be a great success, but from the scouting part they are doing a good job.

 

[Enigma_87]

And I named plenty where we did that.
On those let wait and see which of them go on to be a great success, but from the scouting part they are doing a good job.

We can agree to disagree on this one then. Porto scouts - they are doing a good job, Dortmund, Juve, Bayern etc. In the last 10 years or even more we brought in probably 3 players that can qualify as top talents - Pogba, Pique and Rossi.

The ones you mentioned - the jury is still out on them so we're yet to see how they pan out.

The last player we brought in as a youth one that started in handful of matches and where a scout should earn his money was... well Bebe.

Martial, Depay were established players when we got them, hence the big price tag.

Again back to the original point we should spot the Martial's and Sanches's etc before their price tag becomes 60m and bring them in at a fraction of that price.

 

[diarm]

From what I hear he looks like the new Ronaldo but could be the new Anderson with a slight touch of Bebe and William Carvalho.

Edit: oh and Ronaldinho to.

Yesterday somebody mentioned Jonjo Shelvey as well.
it might have been me

 

[7even]

Comparison. Those who followed our academy probably knew a little about TFM and Rashford before their first competetive game but it's not before they played more then 10-15 senior games it's possible to give some sort of proper judgement. Both Timothy and Marcus took their chance and in today's market they are probably worth £15m+ (Probably more) and for United they are priceless. One local lad and one young talent we scouted before he made his senior debut.

Before Renato Sanches made his debut in Benfica's first team it was almost impossible to know if he was the real deal or just another young talent. Just like Marcus and Timothy he immediately made an impact. But not only that he transformed is team to play better, the results backed him up big time. Off course he got everybody's attention.

If he's worth his fee or not future will tell but a personally prefer we take a gamble on world class talents instead of buying another AdM or some other RM left over.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Comparison. Those who followed our academy probably knew a little about TFM and Rashford before their first competetive game but it's not before they played more then 10-15 senior games it's possible to give some sort of proper judgement. Both Timothy and Marcus took their chance and in today's market they are probably worth £15m+ (Probably more) and for United they are priceless. One local lad and one young talent we scouted before he made his senior debut.

Before Renato Sanches made his debut in Benfica's first team it was almost impossible to know if he was the real deal or just another young talent. Just like Marcus and Timothy he immediately made an impact. But not only that he transformed is team to play better, the results backed him up big time. Off course he got everybody's attention.

If he's worth his fee or not future will tell but a personally prefer we take a gamble on world class talents instead of buying another AdM or some other RM left over.

Is Renato Sanches a world class talent?

 

[Adisa]

Is Renato Sanches a world class talent?

We certainly seem to think he is. Apart from Dembele, I don't know a better 18 year old.

 

[AltiUn]

Is Renato Sanches a world class talent?

Considered the biggest talent in Portugal since Ronaldo supposedly. Reporter a few pages ago referred to his potential as being "immense".

 

[FromTheBench]

Considered the biggest talent in Portugal since Ronaldo supposedly. Reporter a few pages ago referred to his potential as being "immense".

As i said above haven't seen enough of Renato to comment but that reference doesn't mean that much alone and Tbf, similar has been said about Guedes, Bernardo Silva as well as William Carvalho.

 

[cyberman]

As i said above haven't seen enough of Renato to comment but that reference doesn't mean that much alone and Tbf, similar has been said about Guedes, Bernardo Silva as well as William Carvalho.

Where are they though? We feel Sanches is good enough to bid on and they were not.

 

[JPRouve]

Considered the biggest talent in Portugal since Ronaldo supposedly. Reporter a few pages ago referred to his potential as being "immense".

That's a stupid comparison, Ronaldo was a master in dribbling and in creating chances key traits for a forward while Sanches weaknesses are his positioning and reading of the game the key traits for a CM. Once again people love hyperboles.
Sanches is a great talent but he isn't head and shoulders over the others.

 

[prath92]

We can agree to disagree on this one then. Porto scouts - they are doing a good job, Dortmund, Juve, Bayern etc. In the last 10 years or even more we brought in probably 3 players that can qualify as top talents - Pogba, Pique and Rossi.

The ones you mentioned - the jury is still out on them so we're yet to see how they pan out.

The last player we brought in as a youth one that started in handful of matches and where a scout should earn his money was... well Bebe.

Martial, Depay were established players when we got them, hence the big price tag.

Again back to the original point we should spot the Martial's and Sanches's etc before their price tag becomes 60m and bring them in at a fraction of that price.

You are confusing eventual achievement to scouting for talents. We had Morrison, januzaj, Nick Powell, zaha and all as top talents. Top talents doesn't mean they have to go on to become world class. Nobody who saw Scott Sinclair at Swansea could say he would end up being a nobody and end up playing for Villa by 26. He ended up that way simply because he made the wrong career move. That doesn't mean he wasn't a top talent. Sometimes top talents would go onto become world class like Rooney, shearer and all. Sometimes they end up being nobodies like Lee sharpe.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Or could be a success like Martial. Point is you really don't know. Established experienced players are not immune to being a flop.

Yeah but martial is an attacker he scores goals, he creates goals and he is a constant threat. I'm happy to spend £40 million on an attacker

I don't care what anyone says but NO centre midfielder playing football right now apart from maybe Pogba is worth more than £40 million especially not some youngster

 

[FromTheBench]

That's a stupid comparison, Ronaldo was a master in dribbling and in creating chances key traits for a forward while Sanches weaknesses are his positioning and reading of the game the key traits for a CM. Once again people love hyperboles.
Sanches is a great talent but he isn't head and shoulders over the others.

Positioning and reading comes with experience though.

For example It's probably one of the much vaunted Pogba's weaknesses too, but he is also improving on it with time.

I am more worried about Sanches' passing and touch consistency from what i've seen. We'll probably have to use him as a dee; AM in a sort of Delle Alli at Spurs role if we bought him.

Not a very LVG philosophy type player. Infact probably more suited to a counter attacking setup.

 

[Dong Fangzhuo]

What would you have? Realism, please.

The thought of Fellaini, Rooney and Carrick being 3/6 of our top CM options doesn't depress you? Even just replacing them with Blind, TFM and Pereira would be an upgrade in terms of watchability, if not immediate quality. As for what I'd ideally like to see, I can't really say as I don't watch enough football outside the PL. Maybe something like:

Kante (Sanches) Herrera (Sanches/Pereira)
Schneiderlin (Schweini/Blind/TFM)

This is still a bit short on quality compared to the elite teams, but lot's of room to improve and we won't catch Real/Barca/Bayern in one window anyway and we have more pressing issues at RW and CB to deal with this summer.

 

[JPRouve]

Positioning and reading comes with experience though.

For example It's probably one of the much vaunted Pogba's weaknesses too, but he is also improving on it with time.

I am more worried about Sanches' passing and touch consistency from what i've seen. We'll probably have to use him as a dee; AM in a sort of Delle Alli at Spurs role if we bought him.

Not a very LVG philosophy type player. Infact probably more suited to a counter attacking setup.

No, positioning and reading can eventually come with experience, that's why CMs aren't as expensive as the rest and why clubs are reluctant to sell the ones that can perform at a very high level and that's why you don't spend 40m on a player who played 30 professional games, not when he is a CM, for an attacker that's an other story.

When you judge a CM, you have to look at his tactical skills meaning his positioning, anticipation, control of the tempo, understanding of the tempo and generally how he sees the field and the action. The first time I saw Verratii I thought that I was dreaming, he was playing as if the game was in slow motion for him, it's something that you could see with Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Xabi Alonso, Modric, Iniesta and these players are the "+40m midfielders" because they have the X factor, Sanches doesn't have that X factor that trait that makes midfielders guaranteed succes but, and that's a very important but, he could be of the ilk of Yaya Touré and Pogba, excellent players, difference makers but still dispensable because they are not the difference between being collectively bad and good, they are difference between good and great, I don't know if it's the correct expression but they are luxury players.
And I wouldn't pay top money for a potential luxury player, I would literally spend +100m for someone like Verratti, Scholes, Modric or Xavi but I wouldn't for Pogba, Touré and Gerrard and I will totally understand if/when half of the caf strongly disagree with me.

 

[dichinero]

Where are they though? We feel Sanches is good enough to bid on and they were not.

I'm sure we were heavily linked with Guedes and Carvalho a while back. Reports even went on to say that they were done deals. Common factor; Jorge Mendes

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Considered the biggest talent in Portugal since Ronaldo supposedly. Reporter a few pages ago referred to his potential as being "immense".

Is that really such a big deal? Can't think of any Portuguese players who emerged in that time that are world class