What's up, mate?
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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We paid 36m upfront on Martial and are going to pay something around 30m-35m on Sanchez upfront! Still a lot of money in my book and considering the nature of youngsters I don't think its too much to question the merits of taking this risk. I know we have failed to land the majority of our top tier targets but to completely change tack to going this direction is not the answer imo. We should look more towards what Dortmund, Juventus and Atletico have accomplished and see what we can adopt or the key personnel we can poach.
I'm not familiar with the clubs current balance sheet but I know the clubs cash at hand usually swells up before the summer. Also payments and accounts are amortized. We might have £100m in the bank but that doesn't mean we are limited to £100m spend.
Big money for sure but an exciting prospect. It's got me thinking though, is this a typical LVG type signing or has this got Jose written all over it? The club could have course known about Renato for some time but logic says it's a Jose influenced one seeing as the links about him joining surfaced around the time Jose was being tipped to take over next season.
I didn't said that we were limited to 100m, I said that we are spending that money.
I hear this a lot but with us it simply isn't possible. Fair, we might get the occasional Vidic, Evra or Hernandez but 2 of those were brought in at a time we were famously stingy/poor/burdened by our debt. Now we are out of that in the main and we have been happy to let everyone know that. Clubs that flaunt the fact they have money will be expected to pay up when the time comes. If any of those aforementioned clubs were looking at Sanches without everybody else's interest then they'd be looking at 10 mil less.
We also play in a famously rich league that can't wait to tell the rest of the footballing world just how much money it is making via sponsorship and TV deals.
Obviously we can. Bayern, Real Madrid and Barcelona are as rich as we are and they pay normal fees almost all the time. Only Real Madrid sometimes overpays for marketing reasons.
And United have been super rich for a long time now, almost 20 years and we weren't spending stupid amounts on a regular basis.
Ok, Guardian reporting it is me has sold it. Welcome to the club Renato!
Or is it too early for that ??
Or is it too early for that ??
So your man Hagen says it's €60m with likely €20m as bonuses. That's an initial £31m with potentially £15.5m if he turns out class. In this market, with the Man Utd tax added, I'm happy enough with those numbers for a player our scouts have watched 22 times in a row. G'wan young Renato and fill the void in my heart left by the chubby young dreadlocked Brazilian who never was!
Not sure what to think about this transfer. I love us signing young players with huge potential like Martial, De Gea etc. but not 100% sure I see it with this guy, especially for the money being talked about. Then again, I think this Summer with so many big clubs being in for new players we may have to go off the radar slightly with signings like this.
Please tell me the normal signings Barcelona have made in the last five years.
So basically we only have ourselves to blame, right? I know that we are rich and desperate to get back on top but even Juve were in a much worse situation but smartly climbed out of it. Ours is a technical challenge where we somehow aren't able to identify the likes of Alli despite them coming to prominence in a match against us, signing players on bargain deals isn't an indication of weakness. I would bet my arm that, hypothetically, if Sanchez stays at Benfica he will never move at the figures we are throwing at him. It is only us who are this mad.
Luis suarez was perfectly normal, Rakitic (even though he had a clause), Ter Stegen for 12m, Raul Bravo, Alexis Sanchez for 26m, Mascherano 20m and Alba at 14m had a clause too.
Now to be fair Mathieu for 30m is crazy, Neymar was the gamble of the century.
Anyway the club appear to be paying €40m guaranteed. Remaining €20m if he turns out as good as we hope.
A gamble I would also have taken. Looks like he's the most expensive player in history.
It's not mad, it is the going rate for a player that nearly half the clubs in Europe are having a serious look at that has League and Top European experience being purchased from a club that has no particularly pressing need to sell. See also: French teenager purchased last year.
Yeah, I would have taken it too because he was incredible with Brazil and Santos for 2 or 3 years but without hindsight it was still an incredible gamble.
I think the problem is people are looking at this deal the wrong way. Ive seen alot of posters saying we should be going for more established players or going for other youngsters like Neves who will probably cost less than sanches, but we need to break down the attributes that we need and that sanches can provide.
Pace: Sanches though not lighting fast is certainly quick for a CM and definitely possesses more pace than our other midfield options.
Strength/Power: One of his best attributes is that for his age hes very physically mature and I think thats one of the big reasons why Utd feel that hes ready to play in the premier league at such a young age. Its one of the reasons Fosu Mensah has looked so impressive and that strength will be vital if deployed next season in a 4-3-3 with some of our other options lacking. It should help him settle into English football quicker than most.
Driving Play/1-1 ability: For me his best attribute! He has an ability to use that pace and power to commit players and take them on. Thats something that not one of our midfielders can do. By taking on players and pushing us up the pitch from deep we should see greater spaces opening up in the back line for Martial (and hopefully our new RW) to exploit.
Energy: Yes it should be a given in all professional players but its not. Sanches has shown to possess a strong natural engine and again with some of the ageing legs like Carrick (if hes here), Rooney and Schweinsteiger then that energy to get box to box is fundamental.
Youth: You might say this isnt important but i think it very well could be. We already have Herrera and Schniederlin who are hitting their prime years, while Rooney, Carrick and Schweinsteiger are all experienced players. We are lacking a young player that can potentially grow into the role. Id like to also see Fosu Mensah given the chance in the DM role, but Sanches would certainly be a good move for age profile and he can develop with the other young players we have, e.g Shaw, Martial, Rashford etc.
Yes the price talked about is alot, however, we have scouted him 22 games this season which means we know his strengths and weaknesses. I believe that our coaching team will have identified the above weaknesses that our team lacks and they have send the scouts to find a player that fills that criteria. Now when you look at players that fill those slots, that immediately rules out certain other youngsters such as Ruben Neves for example. We are taking a risk but what some people fail to realise is that signing any player is a risk and established names can just as easily flop. One final thing i will say though, (to conclude my essay) is that i would much rather we buy young players that are hungry to improve, and that dream about playing for Utd than signing cast offs from other top teams that see us as second best. I hope we see this deal concluded soon and he can show us exactly what hes made of.
Pace: Sanches though not lighting fast is certainly quick for a CM and definitely possesses more pace than our other midfield options.
Strength/Power: One of his best attributes is that for his age hes very physically mature and I think thats one of the big reasons why Utd feel that hes ready to play in the premier league at such a young age. Its one of the reasons Fosu Mensah has looked so impressive and that strength will be vital if deployed next season in a 4-3-3 with some of our other options lacking. It should help him settle into English football quicker than most.
Driving Play/1-1 ability: For me his best attribute! He has an ability to use that pace and power to commit players and take them on. Thats something that not one of our midfielders can do. By taking on players and pushing us up the pitch from deep we should see greater spaces opening up in the back line for Martial (and hopefully our new RW) to exploit.
Energy: Yes it should be a given in all professional players but its not. Sanches has shown to possess a strong natural engine and again with some of the ageing legs like Carrick (if hes here), Rooney and Schweinsteiger then that energy to get box to box is fundamental.
Youth: You might say this isnt important but i think it very well could be. We already have Herrera and Schniederlin who are hitting their prime years, while Rooney, Carrick and Schweinsteiger are all experienced players. We are lacking a young player that can potentially grow into the role. Id like to also see Fosu Mensah given the chance in the DM role, but Sanches would certainly be a good move for age profile and he can develop with the other young players we have, e.g Shaw, Martial, Rashford etc.
Yes the price talked about is alot, however, we have scouted him 22 games this season which means we know his strengths and weaknesses. I believe that our coaching team will have identified the above weaknesses that our team lacks and they have send the scouts to find a player that fills that criteria. Now when you look at players that fill those slots, that immediately rules out certain other youngsters such as Ruben Neves for example. We are taking a risk but what some people fail to realise is that signing any player is a risk and established names can just as easily flop. One final thing i will say though, (to conclude my essay) is that i would much rather we buy young players that are hungry to improve, and that dream about playing for Utd than signing cast offs from other top teams that see us as second best. I hope we see this deal concluded soon and he can show us exactly what hes made of.
Sorry Alli is a freak case. As another poster said in the Spur thread. For one Alli, Spur also paid money for some other dross. Harry Kane emerged after Soldado flopped miserably. They changed DoF not long ago if I am not mistaken. Marco Baldini. Alli was last season signing so the resigned DoF might be the one who played big role in this transfer and the new one just got lucky!
Edit: Yes Alli and Eriksen, Eric Dier all signing under Baldini. The reason for his dismiss was Levy thought he wasted transfer fund!!!
Thing is every transfer carry some risk. While the price tag seems expensive, if his potential pays off, then in 4 years time, this would be considered a bargain. However, there is no telling.
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It's easy to talk about Alli with the benefit of hindsight, but how many players from the lower leagues actually work out in the way he has for Spurs?
I don't doubt that €40m plus add-ons for Sanches would be an overspend, but it's not difficult to see why the club would be looking more seriously at a player like him.
It's not the going rate and Martial was a special case because Monaco didn't need the money, planned to keep him one more year and since United came late Monaco couldn't replace Martial, that's why the fee was higher than Monaco's projected fee.
Seems fairly reasonable to me.
Would have been spectacular if he flopped. Considering their financial position.
Alli is just but one example mate. Also its goes to show the benefits of having someone fully committed to transfers instead of the current dispensation where Woodward and Van Gaal sort of share the role, I doubt Spurs signed him with such high hopes but he's been a pleasant surprise for them.
Not too late to flop. Signed new big fat contract, then decides to be real Brazillian. We saw this before.
Anyways the game has changed so much. There were not so many dream teams appear at the same in so short amount of time few decades ago. There is less time to develop young players and hot prospect is now going for crazy money. There is so much risk, but one has to accept since it has become a new norm.
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Who are the other examples then?
I remember when players like Will Hughes were being hyped as the next England star - 3 or 4 years on and he isn't anywhere near the England team. We took a similar gamble on Nick Powell a few years back and that didn't work out either.
A player who has played in the Champions League and for one of the best club sides in the top division of Portugal is clearly going to be seen as a more attractive prospect.
more like 46.5M GBP + 15.5M
No overall package is €60m of which €40 is guaranteed.
We got Zaha, Nick Powell from fighting with other clubs for their signatures. In case of Zaha, he played big role in Palace promotion that year too. Zaha capped for English before the transfer too. Didn't work out too well for both.
Edit: quoted wrong post.
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Ok I see, I thought you meant 60+20. Easy to see how journalists can get it wrong, but then its there job to check the facts.
We haven't got a player like him, a box-to-box with the ability to drive forward with the ball.
His dribbling, pace and physicality will fit nicely in the Premier League.
I think this will be a successful transfer.
His dribbling, pace and physicality will fit nicely in the Premier League.
I think this will be a successful transfer.
That fee is absolutely insane. De Bruyne only cost 10 million pounds more, Coman and Costa were far cheaper. Premier League clubs pay extra, that's the price one pays for being the richest league in the world.
Do we really care about the fee though? I don't.
To me he's a young Anderson who can actually shoot. I don't see how that can possibly be a bad thing!
The price although risky for a player early in his career is fair IMO, we must remember it isn't what he's "worth" but what they are willing to sell for. IF it means we get a player who's better and POTENTIALLY one of the best players in his position, then why the hell not?
I think people see the price and his age and expect him to be the 2nd coming of Keane or Scholes already, that won't be the case but it'll give us and the rest of our youngsters a hell of a platform. His energy and drive is badly needed, we can't keep going with a Rooney,Fellaini,Carrick CM that's for sure.
The price although risky for a player early in his career is fair IMO, we must remember it isn't what he's "worth" but what they are willing to sell for. IF it means we get a player who's better and POTENTIALLY one of the best players in his position, then why the hell not?
I think people see the price and his age and expect him to be the 2nd coming of Keane or Scholes already, that won't be the case but it'll give us and the rest of our youngsters a hell of a platform. His energy and drive is badly needed, we can't keep going with a Rooney,Fellaini,Carrick CM that's for sure.
This is crazy. His career is barely 6 months old. How about a full season or two before getting mugged off?
"Sorry Woody mate, Man United either buys now at this high price, or we would sell to other clubs for much lower price in few months time" " While we're at it, how about $60 for Gaitan, Woody mate?" Benfica president.
I always think this is what happens when it comes to United.
Not our money, you're right! Looking at the price explosion on the market this will look like pocket change come next season. I just hope we didn't get ourselves a 46 Million quid squad player. Not 100% convinced of his quality. Didn't even notice him against Bayern, did he play?
I for one I'm not for this transfer at all. While I agree that if the scouts see anything at all, it's something that will come to fruition in a couple of years time. Right now, he is just over hyped but I guess the hype is on the potential which is fair enough. In any case, if we are paying for potential, €60m or so is way too steep after less than a season of football in a relatively lower league."Sorry Woody mate, Man United either buys now at this high price, or we would sell to other clubs for much lower price in few months time" Benfica president.
I always have this feeling this is what happened when it comes to United
Welcome to Ed's world, I guess.
I don't think the money is an issue. But if we spend the reported amount on one player based on potential, how much more would we have to spend on other important areas that need strengthening across the team without breaking FFP rules. 60m is a large chunk of any transfer budget. If we are going to spend that kind of money I'd rather it was on a guaranteed improvement on the team. Surely, that and a bit can lure the calibre of Pogba and Veratti and it will still be a safe transfer period.
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