Renato Sanches

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Adisa said:
Dybala had one good season in Palermo and some on this board did not want us to spend huge amounts on him for the same exact reason you are talking about.
I am not here to argue whether we have overpaid or not. Ofcourse we have.
But you can only call a deal a bad deal after the player has spent some time playing for his new club.
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When you overpay it means you've spent more than the necessary money for a certain product so how is spending more than necessary not a bad deal? The fact of the matter is we are paying a fee that more established/proven players rarely go for for a risky signing who could break his his leg and fail to fulfill his potential. If that is not a shit deal...
Fwiw I am not against this signing but I am totally against paying over the odds for him when half the amount can get us someone who can deliver what we are expecting from him. I refuse to believe that around the continent one can not get a reasonably priced alternative who is ready to contribute effectively now.
 
Jan Hagen says exactly what I say but you follow him instead of me?:nono:
 
itso 7 said:
When you overpay it means you've spent more than the necessary money for a certain product so how is spending more than necessary not a bad deal? The fact of the matter is we are paying a fee that more established/proven players rarely go for for a risky signing who could break his his leg and fail to fulfill his potential. If that is not a shit deal...
Fwiw I am not against this signing but I am totally against paying over the odds for him when half the amount can get us someone who can deliver what we are expecting from him. I refuse to believe that around the continent one can not get a reasonably priced alternative who is ready to contribute effectively now.
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Yes. The club could have signed any alternative. We have scouted Tielemans who would cost around €35m, they have scouted Neves who would cost around that figure. Yet they felt Sanches would be he better signing.
All I am saying is you can only judge the club after he has played for some time.
 
So, let's see. According to him it's naive to mention Martial here, when they are different cases. He doesn't think Renato could make an immediate impact, nor being any kind of short term solution. He's strong and powerful, but not a solid defender, lacks concentration, positioning and gets caught out of position. He doesn't read the game well, and he says there's a "huge" difference between the portuguese and the Premier league. I think it's very clear what's happening here: Renato killed his dog.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Does anyone think he's as talented as Pogba?
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You would be crazy to think so, but still, Sanches is way further ahead in his career than Pogba was at the same age. One being arguably the most important player in a Champions League competing team, while the other barely got a single feature in the Premier League or the FA Cup under possibly the best managers of all time. Although we all knew SAF was making a huge mistake at the time, it is really hard to foretell these things. Does not justify the price reported, but still...
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
This kind of quashes the prospect of Fosu-Mensah having a long-term role in midfield.
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How exactly? If our youngsters aren't able to displace signings, then obviously they're not good enough. Competition for places is never a bad thing, when it comes to a football teams.
Also as we'll most likely play many many games next season, where there will be 2 or maybe 3 players in midfield, how exactly would 1 player prevent others getting game time?
 
Phil Osophy said:
So, let's see. According to him it's naive to mention Martial here, when they are different cases. He doesn't think Renato could make an immediate impact, nor being any kind of short term solution. He's strong and powerful, but not a solid defender, lacks concentration, positioning and gets caught out of position. He doesn't read the game well, and he says there's a "huge" difference between the portuguese and the Premier league. I think it's very clear what's happening here: Renato killed his dog.
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:lol: You again.
 
GledTheRed said:
at work can someone tell me what the tweets say please?
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That we have a gentleman's agreement of €60mn, which is overpriced but is due to his "immense" potential. Also he is a #8 box-to-box player but his main strength is going forward. Furthermore, he exhibits strength, technique, as well as a high degree of maturity and professionalism despite all the media focus surrounding him.
 
Adisa said:
Yes. The club could have signed any alternative. We have scouted Tielemans who would cost around €35m, they have scouted Neves who would cost around that figure. Yet they felt Sanches would be he better signing.
All I am saying is you can only judge the club after he has played for some time.
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That much I understand but you have to admit that we are taking a huge risk based on very little evidence atm. Of course judgement would be deferred as it would be in Mensah's case or any other young player but the difference will always be in the fact that we did not have to spend a king's ransom to bring TFM in. When you spend that kind of money on a player the benefits should be immediate otherwise we'd be better off letting TFM develop in that role.
 
Adisa said:
:lol: You again.
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You said yesterday this man made an "excellent summary", but it couldn't leave this signing in a worse position. He's saying he should remain at Benfica for one more year at least, and it's absurd to spend 60 M (€) on him at the moment. How can you say this is "an excellent summary" when I'm saying every time 90 % of what he says there, and you don't agree with me in any sense?

I share even the positive things. Great attitude, seems a good professional, and has a big margin to grow. Absolutely true. The only thing I disagree with, is that "he has a great technique". A player with great technique doesn't have the permanent mistakes he has controlling, driving and passing the ball. But in overall I could have signed his opinions.
 
Adisa said:
:lol: You again.
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His tone is awful but the "reading of the game" and positioning are things that I pointed to 2 or 3 weeks ago, that's a big problem because that's the difference between an average player and a great player, and it's not automatically developed with age.
 
Adisa said:
Ruben Neves has not had a great season. He's been crap and spent most of the time on the bench.
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That can't be right. Didn't he just score a really great goal in the league? Seems to be doing ok. Was recently linked with us a month or two ago. Constantly linked with Liverpool as well.
 
This will be like Martial. 25 million if he's good. 40 million if he's a beast of a player.
 
podurban2 said:
That we have a gentleman's agreement of €60mn, which is overpriced but is due to his "immense" potential. Also he is a #8 box-to-box player but his main strength is going forward. Furthermore, he exhibits strength, technique, as well as a high degree of maturity and professionalism despite all the media focus surrounding him.
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Thank you sir.
 
Phil Osophy said:
You said yesterday this man made an "excellent summary", but it couldn't leave this signing in a worse position. He's saying he should remain at Benfica for one more year at least, and it's absurd to spend 60 M (€) on him at the moment. How can you say this is "an excellent summary" when I'm saying every time 90 % of what he says there, and you don't agree with me in any sense?

I share even the positive things. Great attitude, seems a good professional, and has a big margin to grow. Absolutely true. The only thing I disagree with, is that "he has a great technique". A player with great technique doesn't have the permanent mistakes he has controlling, driving and passing the ball. But in overall I could have signed his opinions.
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JPRouve said:
His tone is awful but the "reading of the game" and positioning are things that I pointed to 2 or 3 weeks ago, that's a big problem because that's the difference between an average player and a great player, and it's not automatically developed with age.
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I dint disagree with @Phil Osophy I was just pulling his legs. And under a good coach, I think positioning is something that can be worked on.
 
Adisa said:
I dint disagree with @Phil Osophy I was just pulling his legs. And under a good coach, I think positioning is something that can be worked on.
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It can be worked on but if he never improves it won't be a huge surprise, it happens often, just look at Fellaini or Pogba.
 
Adisa said:
I dint disagree with @Phil Osophy I was just pulling his legs. And under a good coach, I think positioning is something that can be worked on.
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For most CM his age, positioning is always what is going to be lacking (at a high level)
 
I dont know anything about Sanches in honesty but I'm just not sure we should be spending that sort of money to fill that position. We have much more pressing matters around the pitch, right attack is the position we should spend big on.
 

Seems we had agreed on the fee a while ago. But wanted to pay a smaller amount in guaranteed sums. That appears to have been cleared up.
 
I'm happy to trust our scouts with this one. They've identified something worth shelling out a lot of money for. Most likely looking beyond the odd errant pass or bad touch. It's not as if they don't see them happen.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I dont know anything about Sanches in honesty but I'm just not sure we should be spending that sort of money to fill that position. We have much more pressing matters around the pitch, right attack is the position we should spend big on.
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This would have been a good argument if the club was short of cash. I am pretty sure signing Sanches will not reduce what we can spend elsewhere on the pitch.
 
Duckers getting in on this as well. Says we had a bid rejected in Feb, too.
 
Kag said:
I'm happy to trust our scouts with this one. They've identified something worth shelling out a lot of money for. Most likely looking beyond the odd errant pass or bad touch. It's not as if they don't see them happen.
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They've scouted him for 22 consecutive matches. That's an huge dossier.
 
As with the Martial deal, the real number to look at is the initial outlay. Which is, some rumour to be around 35 million euros although I understand we are still haggling this. That is a big outlay initially but personally i'd ignore all the 60 talk as it is based on add ons, similar to Martial, if those are in play then I think it is fair to say that the player would have paid for himself at that point.
 
His comment.
The best for all would be if Renato stayed another season at Benfica.
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Mine

He lacks too many things to think about a big move now, and I'm sure a transfer now would be counterproductive both for the player and us. We need someone more reliable, even if he's young, and he needs to keep playing and learning even most of the basic things.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/renato-sanches.413382/page-36#post-19073015
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Positioning & reading of the game are something young Renato need to work on, though, as he sometimes is caught out of position.
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If he keeps sending the ball to the stands after a first touch pass, he's permanently caught out of position and getting dispossessed in critical zones, nothing suggests he's going to change and improve during his time here.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/renato-sanches.413382/page-34


Honestly I don't know why we need to pay a fortune to carry this, when we don't know if he's going to improve not just his technical side of the game, but also his poor decision making, lack of calm and composure, and the total absence of tactical culture.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/renato-sanches.413382/page-39
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Why are so many mentioning Martial? Isn't it very naive to think that Renato Sanches would be an immediate success just because Martial was? Martial was the exception, not the rule.
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People compares it with Martial every time but he was playing very well before, his maturity and composure were from other world. People here expects we make big gambles with young players and we always win the prize, but that's hardly the rule and in this case we are choosing the wrong numbers in my opinion, or the wrong moment at least.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/renato-sanches.413382/page-36
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Huge difference between the Portuguese & English league.
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When I criticize the league I don't doubt about the quality of Benfica, Porto, Sporting and even Braga if you want. But the rest are associations of single against married. If he's not consistent in any aspect of the game there, it's silly to sign him now to solve our problems, especially paying a fortune. I don't doubt about his potential and raw materials but he needs to remain there for one more year at least.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/renato-sanches.413382/page-36#post-19071847
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Here I'm accused of "talking about a different player", making up stuff and putting "too much effort" to discredit him. But then a portuguese football expert says the same things and that's an 'excellent summary'. This place is amazing, AMAZING.
 
Adisa said:
This would have been a good argument if the club was short of cash. I am pretty sure signing Sanches will not reduce what we can spend elsewhere on the pitch.
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The club may not be short of cash or going broke but these deals are structured in such a way that we pay for them in instalments and we will be paying for his in three or four years time. So committing too much money now, and God help us if its on duds, could affect what we can spend in the future particularly if we fail to arrest this decline.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I dont know anything about Sanches in honesty but I'm just not sure we should be spending that sort of money to fill that position. We have much more pressing matters around the pitch, right attack is the position we should spend big on.
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Nah I disagree with that, we really are in need of an important CM signing and I certainly think Sanches has all the attributes that we are missing in that position, with his abilty to drive with the ball past players, provide steel that we lack and give the team much needed pace and energy. I do agree that RW is another priority position but we are Manchester Utd we can afford to spend 100 million on the RW position as well as Sanches.
 
Adisa said:
This would have been a good argument if the club was short of cash. I am pretty sure signing Sanches will not reduce what we can spend elsewhere on the pitch.
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We are spending the Di Maria money and the wage spared, the club has 100m€ in its Bank account.
 
Phil Osophy said:
His comment.


Mine

Here I'm accused of "talking about a different player", making up stuff and putting "too much effort" to discredit him. But then a portuguese football expert says the same things and that's an 'excellent summary'. This place is amazing, AMAZING.
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mate, log off and have your meltdown somewhere else. It won't end well playing it out in front of the forum.
 
itso 7 said:
The club may not be short of cash or going broke but these deals are structured in such a way that we pay for them in instalments and we will be paying for his in three or four years time. So committing too much money now, and God help us if its on duds, could affect what we can spend in the future particularly if we fail to arrest this decline.
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But they are also structured in a way that means if they flop we don't pay close to the full amount so in that way we are covering the risk factor.
 
Phil Osophy said:
His comment.


Mine




















Here I'm accused of "talking about a different player", making up stuff and putting "too much effort" to discredit him. But then a portuguese football expert says the same things and that's an 'excellent summary'. This place is amazing, AMAZING.
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Hey Jan!
 
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