That's fair enough - more than fair, in fact. I'm mainly using this as an opportunity to advocate a general strategy: It could very well be a non-starter in his particular case. He looks decent, though, from what I've seen of him.
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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That's fair enough - more than fair, in fact. I'm mainly using this as an opportunity to advocate a general strategy: It could very well be a non-starter in his particular case. He looks decent, though, from what I've seen of him.
Not really, none of them have been purchased for a record fee in their positions, if we buy Sanches for 25m€ like Nani then it's fine, it's slightly overpriced but it's acceptable. Now I know that people are going to come and talk about the inflation but the fact is that the inflation is overstated.
Edit: And the general strategy is based on quantity, for example instead of buying Di Maria for 65m, you buy two young players with great potential for less than Di Maria, the strategy makes no sense if you spend the same amount for an upcoming star and for the actual star.
Just don't forget the risks involved in buying an actual star, as United fans we especially should know that buying fully developed star players isn't a 100% fool proof strategy. Veron, Berbatov, Di Maria, Mata, Hargreaves...
I don't forget it, if it was down to me, we wouldn't be purchasing stars at all, at least not when they are expensive.
This thread made me think about something, I would purchase a first refusal/clause for Sanches for 10m€, they keep him for two years and United have a first refusal during those two years and a 30m€ option after. To me that's a way of using our financial power wisely.
Exactly. Latin players are often made better by being raised in English (British? Scandinavian even?) football and then going back the other way (e.g. Pique, Ronaldo, Gattuso, not Fabregas) because the game is that bit more manic so your decision making and physique have to improve to cope whilst the technique and understanding of the Latin possession game are likely already there from when you were a kid. Often much harder to adapt when it's the other way round to my mind.
Although I would say, I'd categorise Hargreaves as a success for us. 17m to win a league and Champions League double. I'll take that any day.
The first thing that comes in mind in our 3rd champions league campaign is Owen fecking hargreaves
Um, what?
Only eighteen Sanches acceleration and physical strength is close to world class. He's calm and have a good stamina, lasting 90 minutes two times in a row against Bayern in a CL QF is impressive.
He can improve his technique and decision making but the quality is there to see. When everything works out fine he looks like a very special talent. Maybe not Ronaldo or Messi level but if he continue to develops he maybe can reach a level close to Vidal or similar. I gamble with such a talent without hesitation.
But talent isn't everything. I think our scouts is quite sure about his talent. The thing they probably are interested to know more about is his character, his willingness to train, overcome hurdles, handle pressure, handle fame and his private life. Being a famous player for United is a different animal compared to the life he lives today. No disrespect to Benfica and Portugal.
If he has the right mentality I think we shall be all over him. With him and TFM we probably have two real warriors of highest caliber. I miss the days when we had Roy Keane. I loved those years.
He can improve his technique and decision making but the quality is there to see. When everything works out fine he looks like a very special talent. Maybe not Ronaldo or Messi level but if he continue to develops he maybe can reach a level close to Vidal or similar. I gamble with such a talent without hesitation.
But talent isn't everything. I think our scouts is quite sure about his talent. The thing they probably are interested to know more about is his character, his willingness to train, overcome hurdles, handle pressure, handle fame and his private life. Being a famous player for United is a different animal compared to the life he lives today. No disrespect to Benfica and Portugal.
If he has the right mentality I think we shall be all over him. With him and TFM we probably have two real warriors of highest caliber. I miss the days when we had Roy Keane. I loved those years.
Times saying Pep wants him.
Said we bid £35m in Jan. If we bid that much, we should just pay the £40m they want.
Said we bid £35m in Jan. If we bid that much, we should just pay the £40m they want.
If Mendes' pet is reporting it then I'm convinced. I mean, it's not like he could have any ulterior motive, is it?
Still think he will end up here. We aren't going to bid £35m and just forget about it.
I'm fairly sure that we never bid 35m, Benfica would have accepted.
Pretty obvious they would. I don't think United has submitted an offer at all or else the reliable newspapers such as "O Jogo" would have reported it. I think it's just rumours coming from Benfica media rep machine "Gaitán style".
Yes, but in reality a top talent will rarely go for Di Maria figures. Martial cost an arm and a leg, but the circumstances were special - and even he didn't go for 65 mill.
I obviously agree that if you're going to spend Galactico money - literally - on talents, you may as well try to get actual Galacticos. That said, the main premise of the proposal above is that United have no edge on our rivals when it comes to signing actual Galacticos, whereas we may use our wealth to gain an edge when it comes to signing Martial style talents: They're easier to sign, simply, for a number of reasons - and they're generally considerably cheaper than your Di Marias (not least because you don't have to pay them exorbitant wages to begin with).
I totally agree, I will just precise that for a midfielder 40m is galactico money.
Subject to racist abuse tonight after the game apparently.
City and PSG being linked with him now. I wonder if there's any truth in it or if they've gotten as much mileage as they can out of linking him with us for now.
I'm not sure 40m would get close to paying for Pogba or veratti...
That said 40m on an 18yr old is a lot and I would hope any deal was structured to be a reasonable fee plus add ons
Mind you I'd still rather have neves
47 million 
The martial transfer has given them so much license to make up stuff.
The martial transfer has given them so much license to make up stuff.
Which galactico MF would you think costs 40M?
Didn't Kroos, Ozil and Thiago all go for as much/less than that?
So much squabbling over the price fee when none of us have an idea how much he'll go for. 47m is his buyout price, none of these players are ever sold on their buyout clause anyway.
This thread is eerily close to the Martial thread, I remember many being outraged over his fee and yet hardly or no-one talks about it, and it's widely recognised as a good investment.
We've apparently scouted him a large number of times(nearly every match since January which is quite frankly a lot), so I'll go by their opinion rather than people here who've decided that he's next Anderson just because he plays in the Portuguese League, inspite of the fact that his playing style is completely opposite of Anderson and stamina seems to be his strongest suit rather than the weakest.
This thread is eerily close to the Martial thread, I remember many being outraged over his fee and yet hardly or no-one talks about it, and it's widely recognised as a good investment.
We've apparently scouted him a large number of times(nearly every match since January which is quite frankly a lot), so I'll go by their opinion rather than people here who've decided that he's next Anderson just because he plays in the Portuguese League, inspite of the fact that his playing style is completely opposite of Anderson and stamina seems to be his strongest suit rather than the weakest.
If you ask the Madrid and Bayern posters, they seem to think that both of them have been underwhelming in their respective teams.
I do find Kroos underwhelming everytime I see him. Didn't know that was the case with Thiago. But regardless, all were hugely accomplished/rated when they were transferred.
Ozil 42.5M, Kroos and Thiago went for less because they wanted to leave and were approaching final seasons in their contracts.
Thiago wasn't a galactico MF at that point, was he?
When you think of top MF's now who are galactico's (and possibly available) you've got Pogba, Verrati, Gundogan, Koke...... all with the exception of Gundogan (purely because he has one season left) will probably go for 50M plus.
Well that's a good time to buy midfielders and players wanting to leave is usually how transfers happen. And again Gundogan is one such MF available this summer so it seems these top midfielders go for around 40 or less regularly. Modric had galactico ability too and well for a fairly reasonable fee.
In fact, has a CM ever gone for 50 million plus? It will probably happen with Verratti and Pogba, but the norm has definitely been between 25 and 40 million.
Thiago hasn't been underwhelming, especially in the Champions League. He's just injured too often. I doubt any Bayern fan would say that he's been underwhelming.
Yes! Of course, how could I forget Modric.
Here you go:
I'm sure I can find more posts regarding the same. Thiago seems to be overrated by United fans who don't watch him much.
Some have on is forum. Think @Balu
Kroos was in his last year of contract and Thiago had a clause in his contract where he'd leave for a set amount If he didnt played a certain amount of matches.
50m or more? There is no one, the closest is Javi Martinez and Athletic are a special club they have plenty of money and can't use it, so when you come for their players you pay the maximum possible.
Zero comments on Renato Cafe about his horror show against Rio Ave, what a surprise. This is what I can save from the match, there's a lot of actions to highlight but I can't find it all. As it happens many times (too much for my taste) awful decisions and even worse execution.
http://imgur.com/bxDWTU8
http://imgur.com/ZWJVCcK
http://imgur.com/dYymzmU
http://imgur.com/SF79lHj
http://imgur.com/0Qj2HXT
http://imgur.com/C7IOcvv
http://imgur.com/gPMn2to
http://imgur.com/Z4oyaVr
One of his epic moments against Setubal, from last week.
http://imgur.com/L19ZVZj
Honestly I don't know why we need to pay a fortune to carry this, when we don't know if he's going to improve not just his technical side of the game, but also his poor decision making, lack of calm and composure, and the total absence of tactical culture. Logic says young players improve, but there's some instinctive players who never improve enough on these aspects, and by the moment this season he hasn't evolved in any sense. In fact he's getting worse every time.
I know it's always impressive to see a young and strong kid playing with enthusiasm and bravery, doing some isolated actions here and there with epic music on Youtube. But if you analyze him there's zero knowledge behind his game, he's pure anarchy and the execution is awful many times. His game is 90 % attitude and physical work, but when he lacks energy he's a shadow on the field and even a problem for his team.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure Benfica will demand a huge offer to sell him now, as they don't need to be reasonable at setting a price. It would be different if they needed to sell but I don't think that's the case. So it's just impossible this transfer happens this summer if our club is serious and professional, there's simply no chance. Even if we leave the cost aside the transfer is pointless itself, there's no benefit for anyone involved.
http://imgur.com/bxDWTU8
http://imgur.com/ZWJVCcK
http://imgur.com/dYymzmU
http://imgur.com/SF79lHj
http://imgur.com/0Qj2HXT
http://imgur.com/C7IOcvv
http://imgur.com/gPMn2to
http://imgur.com/Z4oyaVr
One of his epic moments against Setubal, from last week.
http://imgur.com/L19ZVZj
Honestly I don't know why we need to pay a fortune to carry this, when we don't know if he's going to improve not just his technical side of the game, but also his poor decision making, lack of calm and composure, and the total absence of tactical culture. Logic says young players improve, but there's some instinctive players who never improve enough on these aspects, and by the moment this season he hasn't evolved in any sense. In fact he's getting worse every time.
I know it's always impressive to see a young and strong kid playing with enthusiasm and bravery, doing some isolated actions here and there with epic music on Youtube. But if you analyze him there's zero knowledge behind his game, he's pure anarchy and the execution is awful many times. His game is 90 % attitude and physical work, but when he lacks energy he's a shadow on the field and even a problem for his team.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure Benfica will demand a huge offer to sell him now, as they don't need to be reasonable at setting a price. It would be different if they needed to sell but I don't think that's the case. So it's just impossible this transfer happens this summer if our club is serious and professional, there's simply no chance. Even if we leave the cost aside the transfer is pointless itself, there's no benefit for anyone involved.
If our scouts are convinced I'm sold. Our scouts seem to know what they are doing. Every one and their dog wanted otamendi and pedro but we decided not to pursue and it looks like top decisions by the minute. No one even knew martial including Thierry Henry and everyone thought he was waste of money. If people could get him for 36m + add ons now they would probably bite your hand off.
We seem to be knowing what we buy.
We seem to be knowing what we buy.
Zero comments on Renato Cafe about his horror show against Rio Ave, what a surprise. This is what I can save from the match, there's a lot of actions to highlight but I can't find it all. As it happens many times (too much for my taste) awful decisions and even worse execution.
http://imgur.com/bxDWTU8
http://imgur.com/ZWJVCcK
http://imgur.com/dYymzmU
http://imgur.com/SF79lHj
http://imgur.com/0Qj2HXT
http://imgur.com/C7IOcvv
http://imgur.com/gPMn2to
http://imgur.com/Z4oyaVr
One of his epic moments against Setubal, from last week.
http://imgur.com/L19ZVZj
Honestly I don't know why we need to pay a fortune to carry this, when we don't know if he's going to improve not just his technical side of the game, but also his poor decision making, lack of calm and composure, and the total absence of tactical culture. Logic says young players improve, but there's some instinctive players who never improve enough on these aspects, and by the moment this season he hasn't evolved in any sense. In fact he's getting worse every time.
I know it's always impressive to see a young and strong kid playing with enthusiasm and bravery, doing some isolated actions here and there with epic music on Youtube. But if you analyze him there's zero knowledge behind his game, he's pure anarchy and the execution is awful many times. His game is 90 % attitude and physical work, but when he lacks energy he's a shadow on the field and even a problem for his team.
Maybe I'm wrong but I'm sure Benfica will demand a huge offer to sell him now, as they don't need to be reasonable at setting a price. It would be different if they needed to sell but I don't think that's the case. So it's just impossible this transfer happens this summer if our club is serious and professional, there's simply no chance. Even if we leave the cost aside the transfer is pointless itself, there's no benefit for anyone involved.
Did he kill your dog or something?
Depay has been a flop. Also the french posters here like @JPRouve knew about Martial I think
There's also the last guy we bought from Portugal, Rojo, who hasn't been very good
About the price of midfielders, it depends on the different profiles. A difference maker like Pogba is not the same that a supportive physical player. This is the easiest market in football world, and that's the reason I always insist on it. If all we want is to add some muscle and dynamism to our midfield we don't need to get mad spending, especially with players who need to learn even the most basic things. It would be a different thing if people at the club thought he's going to be a total player, but that's a very optimistic view. By the moment there's nothing solid.
Rojo, ADM, Memphis, Darmain etc were all recent purchases. Hit & miss is our transfer dealing.
PSG and Liverpool were also in for him and he was a step away from signing for psg so he definitely had talent. Scouts can't predict how he will turn out obviously. They can only judge if he is good and many other clubs felt that too.
I remember that even the posters who knew martial thought he wasn't good enough for us. Especially at that price.
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