But none of those examples consider Sanches age and potential. For the highest rated youngsters you now have to pay the big money particularly if they are being scouted by all the big teams. Like shaw cost us £30 million which many said was Crazy for a fullback but he has potential to be the best LB in the world so he should be worth that money. In the next few years I fully expect many young talents to go for similar fees
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Delli Alli would cost at least double that. £25 million ain't a whole lot these days.
His age and experience are the reasons why he isn't a 40m player, I genuinely don't know why caf posters are lying to themselves, it's not the market price it's not even close to the market price, maybe one day, maybe in the near future it will be the market price but today that price will be a first and will explode the going rate.
As for Shaw, left fullbacks are rare and Shaw was easily the best or second best fullback in the league 30m was the price of Shaw's level at the time, not the price of his potential.
Indeed Shaw had played 2 full seasons in the EPL as the starting LB and also just came off a season being in the team of the year.
I think Sanches performances are that of a very high level player at only the age of 18. He's playing in a good title winning side that's just gone further than most English teams in the champions league. His market value would probably be around 25-30 for that alone. Then if we consider the Utd tax and the fact he is only 18 you can see how the price of £40 comes about. I don't see any problem at all in signing him in a deal structured similar to the martial deal where we pay something like £20 million upfront with £20 million potential add one. That seems to me to be a cost effective method at signing top talents
Let's put it that way, that's nonsense.
He seems to have a very high potential but you are overrating his performances and your vision of the market is completely wrong.
So he's been arguably the best player for Benfica that surely makes his value quite high. If anything your greatly underestimating the price of the market. If you think Utd are gonna be getting only players for £10 million players anymore you'll be waiting a very long time
I'm not underrating anything, there isn't one player who as been sold at that price in that position since Javi Martinez and he was cheaper, and Bilbao are a very special case. Your rating of the market is based on strictly nothing, zero, nada.
Whilst I agree a player in that position hasn't gone for that much previously how much do you think never and tielemans(sp?) will go for when they move. I rate them at about the same level and can't see any of them moving for under 30mill
Your only looking at the CM position rather than just looking at the market for players in general and in particular young player market. The only reason we haven't seen a CM go for that value is because no one like Sanches has been sold. Do you think of varratti got sold it would only be for £20 million? No! He would likely go for £60-70 million. Similar with pogba who would go for maybe a world record. You chat just use the argument that as someone hasn't been sold at that price before the inflation doesn't exist. It will and it does.
I have no idea, it will depend on when they move and where, today none of them will move for more than 30m, even 20m will be a stretch. But this summer with the new TV deal a genuine inflation might occur and then we will be able to talk about those fantasized transfer fees.
Because the price of a player is highly influenced by his position and his role, goalscorers are the most expensive and creative players are expensive but far less than goalscorers.
Now concerning Verratti, he has been sold for far less and he currently is a top player with almost 200 games played, once again you make strange comparisons.
And finally for your last sentence, you told me in the last 2 years and I gave you names of players who moved in the last two years while you gave me nothing.
I look forward to re quoting you in a couple of years when a number of cm players sell for £40+
give up now, jprouve has you on toast. Its cringe worthy.
You see that's the problem I don't predict the future, my post concerns today, April 19th 2016, you claimed that it was the market price today, I told you that it wasn't and I'm right it's not.
Honestly why are poeple so hung up on the transfer fee? We paid a ridiculous amount on Martial and it looks like a great investment now. Similarly we paid a pittance for Bastian and that's probably our worst signing made this summer.
Darmian was also a bargain and he looks incredibly terrible.
I don't think anyone would object to spending big on someone like Dele Alli, it's just that Sanches does not look all that (plus the responses from Benfica's forums).
I guess we'll have to trust our scouts, which to be fair to them have almost always got it right when spending big (especially with young players).
I will confess, it's not the price that bothers me but the idea that it's a normal price in the current market, that irritates me because it's extremely obvious that it's not, so when I see people make that point I just can't take it.
But Scorpy is right, if we can afford it, it shouldn't be a problem or a concern.
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With United set to lose more money if reports are to be believed, I'd rather not blow all our budget on this kid. Could turn out good but no where close as the hype currently suggests.
Not sure why anyone's getting hung up on the price when as with him actually joining us its entirely speculative at this point and is from the same journalists who have had us signing Gaitan under 3 different managers and claimed we were close to signing Mangala, Hector Herrera, William Carvalho, Enzo Perez, Rui Patricio and about a dozen other players from Portugal in the past but only realized we were interested in Rojo when he started following United players on instagram. United could end up signing Sanches but it seems the prices being quoted for him are based on his buyout clause and very little else
That's if you believe "there is no value in the market"
It must have been a funny "oh shit!" moment when they scrambled to make it seem like they knew all along
Which I think is becoming more and more true unfortuanately, the scouting networks of even small premier league clubs has grown extensively with a much wider search area. That makes it all the harder to find untouched gems not on the radar of other clubs. I think that fact that we are Utd also works against us in that clubs see us coming from miles away and push the price up accordingly. The main thing is tho, with the money we have we no longer need to look for value, we can now follow the sugar daddy approach and just sign players that we want and think can improve the team. If the scouts think that player is sanches then money shouldn't be an object to us.
Just so you know I don't think this price is normal, I think we will be paying an extra 10-15 million in Utd tax but you make it out like that's the deal breaker when in reality there's no reason for it to be.
But we can't though. It all depends on how much the glazers want to take out of the club. Even if we hit £500 million in revenues, approximately £200 million goes on wages. then lets say we leave £100 million for transfers and another £50 million on new signings wages, agent fees etc. that could leave a £150 million excess. we still need to service our debt and I reckon we need to pay out shareholders. We have too many expenses and certainly far from unlimited funds as we are a floated company as it stands.We genuinely have to balance the books. Our profit was like 2 million in 2014-2015.
The debt is nearly non existent and to be honest shouldn't even be mentioned anymore. People don't quite realise the size of the Utd financial beast, I think we could easily afford to spend £250 million this year if we wanted. Remember that figure won't be needed every year as long as you buy quality players. We only need one more big window in my mind sighing 3-4 quality players then next year I'd expect that figure to drop to 1-2 signings a year.
Yup.
This is what Renato had to say about his market value and the quoted prices.
http://www.instagram.com/p/BEY7QTpyI7P/?taken-by=renatosanches85
http://www.instagram.com/p/BEY7QTpyI7P/?taken-by=renatosanches85
I know full well the size of the United financial beast and its slightly exaggerated on here. I do agree with the sentiment of spending big this summer and then using those transfers to build a strong team for a few seasons after, that seems legit. the latest figures on our debt are
"the figures have helped the club to reduce its net debt, with the current figure at £322.1m against last year's £343.4"
we have reduced it by only 20 million in 12 months. £320million is no joke though. Its like Barcelona levels and people were saying they will have to sell Neymar or Messi because of their debt obligations. I would hardly say we are in sugar-daddy territory. Our debt is higher than Arsenals.
This is the clubs with the most debt in table format in dollars
NO.# CLUB DEBT
1 Real Madrid $750m
2 FC Barcelona $530m
3 Manchester United $510m
4 Arsenal $320m
The debt is truly inconsequential because the interest we are paying on it is paltry and if we wanted to pay it back the Glazers can do so by selling off a small portion of their equity. The haven't tried to aggressively reduce it because they are more comfortable with for tax reasons and the fact that creditors have no say in how you are running your business, as long as you up to date in interesr payments, as opposed to a new group of shareholders.
Our club value has gone down by a billion though so they will have to sell a bigger stake and that gets dangerous when you want to maintain control. I don't see how you can say its inconsequential. The interest is only about £10-13 million you are right. But the fact is we still need to spend our money wisely and are not in a position to act like a sugar daddy club because "they ain't got no worries"
Re: the fee
I've long been of the opinion that we should target players in his category and that we should be willing to go far in terms of transfer fees (as we did for Martial).
There's a risk involved, that goes without saying. You could end up with Ando, sure. But if you do your homework and target more right players than wrong 'uns, it's a sound strategy. We don't have a financial edge on our rivals (or what should be our rivals) in terms of outbidding them for established and recognized top players (of the marquee variety). But we do have significant means - and we can outbid our rivals for players who are not established and recognized.
A variation on the Wenger strategy of old, but with less risk involved (since the players in question are, if nothing else, recognized top talents - as in, Golden Boy territory).
Anyway, as far as personal preferences go, I'd rather have us pay grotesque sums for young talents than offering huge salaries to marquee types (not to mention marquee types who are over the hill, or getting there rapidly).
I've long been of the opinion that we should target players in his category and that we should be willing to go far in terms of transfer fees (as we did for Martial).
There's a risk involved, that goes without saying. You could end up with Ando, sure. But if you do your homework and target more right players than wrong 'uns, it's a sound strategy. We don't have a financial edge on our rivals (or what should be our rivals) in terms of outbidding them for established and recognized top players (of the marquee variety). But we do have significant means - and we can outbid our rivals for players who are not established and recognized.
A variation on the Wenger strategy of old, but with less risk involved (since the players in question are, if nothing else, recognized top talents - as in, Golden Boy territory).
Anyway, as far as personal preferences go, I'd rather have us pay grotesque sums for young talents than offering huge salaries to marquee types (not to mention marquee types who are over the hill, or getting there rapidly).
The 2nd half was fairly dead apart from the late scare for Benfica (poor Arnorld) but I thought Sanches used the ball really well in the first half.
Well atleast he can speak english.. Or recite everything Future says.
@P-Nut0712
If the market changes, the market changes but I'm not going to pretent that something that hasn't happened yet is a fact. And to be honest in my opinion the market will only change for the players who aren't good enough for the english top 6, basically the players who aren't good enough to play for the perennial Europe competitors. The top player market is already inflated since there isn't enough top players for the very rich teams, they are already struggling to fill their teams and they are already willing to pay top dollars.
Edit: And surprisingly the new tv deal only allow United to be Real Madrid's equals, Madrid are extremely rich.
If the market changes, the market changes but I'm not going to pretent that something that hasn't happened yet is a fact. And to be honest in my opinion the market will only change for the players who aren't good enough for the english top 6, basically the players who aren't good enough to play for the perennial Europe competitors. The top player market is already inflated since there isn't enough top players for the very rich teams, they are already struggling to fill their teams and they are already willing to pay top dollars.
Edit: And surprisingly the new tv deal only allow United to be Real Madrid's equals, Madrid are extremely rich.
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isn't the finished article more valuable than mere potential?
Anderson's career at United should not influence us signing young players for big fees. Anderson was not a bad player, which he showed for the first 2 seasons, but his lifestyle and injuries ruined his reputation and career at United. When young skillful players are scouted, i think the most important things to look for is their work ethic. If they work hard, then they will fulfill their promise, otherwise they will ruin their career.
Yep Italys starting RB is terrible. Its that easy fitting in to a new team/league after all especially if you have to learn a new language.
Two things.
Firstly, I'm not believing the fees reported this far. The media makes up a lot of nonsense to garner attention.
Secondly, there's too much talk on this forum about a "United-tax" or just having to always spend big sums. You can get bang for your buck if you're intelligent and capable in the market as Juve and Bayern have often shown. If we're constantly overpaying for players then it means we're not doing very good business in the transfer market rather than the size of the club being the sole reason.
Firstly, I'm not believing the fees reported this far. The media makes up a lot of nonsense to garner attention.
Secondly, there's too much talk on this forum about a "United-tax" or just having to always spend big sums. You can get bang for your buck if you're intelligent and capable in the market as Juve and Bayern have often shown. If we're constantly overpaying for players then it means we're not doing very good business in the transfer market rather than the size of the club being the sole reason.
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