OK, what's the benefit for United from his appearances for Italy? For United he's been very poor.
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Agreed. Chelsea are oil rich yet managed to get Costa and Cesc for £60 odd mill which is the price of Martial
Circumstantial - wasn't Costa nearing the end of his contract? And Cesc was forced out the club with no buyers.
Funny teams in Europe acquire world class CMs for not much more.
Cesc joined Chelsea due to Mourinho and I read he asked to leave as opposed to "forced out". Costa renewed his contract until 2018 when Liverpool tried to sign him
EDIT: Cesc claimed he had quite a few interested parties and I am sure United was one of them.
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When was the last time a giant in Europe spent £50 mill on a CM? It's just uncecessary
That's what I said....
Thats your opinion. He hasnt been any worse than our team as a whole
Evras first season for us was awful. The benefit of the italian appearances is that its an indication that he must have some decent level of talent. A young player in his first season in the EPL having a rough first season, I think its happened before....
It's about identifying these circumstances. Noone is stopping us from getting these deals and finding the right moment to sign these players. So yes we need to pull up our socks a little and stop blowing our load every time just because we can afford it.
As well as spending a bit more intelligently we obviously have to improve the things we do after we sign a player. Most of our players seem to get worse/have a lower value after playing for us these days.
When you barely get played in your position over the seasons its pretty much being forced out. He wasn't evidently wasn't valued highly at Barcelona and most the fans wanted him gone. Fair play on Costa but Chelsea signed him when we had RvP expected to continue firing goals under LVG's then pending arrival plus we had Rooney and then later brought in Falcao.
And what circumstances are available to United this summer in the positions we need? I can't think of Zlatan and thats about it.
Like @amolbhatia50k just said the art of the mercato is to identify the situations where you have some leverage.
Do you think we should have gone for Costa or Fabregas? I don't think we needed either.
You and me aren't paid to scout the footballing world for potential signings. Along with bagging top players for not so absurd fees its also about ensuring we bag the next Verratti, Gundogan, Vidal etc for non record breaking fees before they become the equivalents of those players. That's what getting value in the market is all about.
I don't see why you need examples from this summer. Watching football over the years makes it evident that there are always great deals available. It's about finding them and pouncing on them.
Fabregas would have been perfect if he was interested but I don't think he was.
I don't know why you ask me that question, we don't have to buy every players but if you want an answer, yes we should have tried to purchase both, Fabregas is a better AM than Herrera and he was cheaper, while bringing a younger striker than Rooney and RVP would have been a good idea, particularly for that fee.
Now, concerning United in 2016, in my opinion we should bring Lassana Diarra who is going to be cheap or free, he is the best french midfielder and his role is exactly what we need, a midfielder with experience, very good technique, very good stamina and very good tactical nous, he could have the same influence than Xavi Alonso for Bayern, if we were to bring him and Sanches I won't mind a high fee for the latter.
On the wing, I wouldn't mind someone like Bernard, I saw him play in Brazil and for the Brazilian team and if Shakthar were willing to sell him for Douglas Costa money or less I would take a punt.
There is also Konoplyanka who has a reasonable clause and could boilster our wing options, in central defense Atletico don't need Lucas, with Gimenez, Savic, Velasquez and Godin they have enough talent which means that they might be interested in taking some cash for Lucas.
And I forgot Krychowiak who also have a low transfer clause, the continent is filled with opportunities, we need to stop with the logic that because we are rich we don't have to be smart.
Our resell value is recently awful. Hernandez and Kagawa will probably treble their transfer fees if sold now. Probably get 12 mill for Memphis.
P.S. Costa contract was fixed until 2018, Chelsea just tapped him up. remember in the semi final he applauded their fans.
Ok so why couldn't United sign Cesc since he was forced out? this is the point. a potential WC centre mid is available and Chelsea paid the same price as we pay for Schneiderlin and Ander Herrera. It don't make sense.
Why would Chubacca live on the planet Endor with 3 ft Ewoks when he is an 8 ft Wookie?
EDIT: Another is Thiago going for 23mill. Why couldn't we tie that up when everyone in Spain were putting their mortgage on the fact that he was coming United? These circumstances are all around. we just fail to capitalise. Pogba is another circumstance but for Juve.
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I agree that we should be taking advantage of circumstances. I just disagree with the examples of Fabregas and Costa to cement that point - imo we needed neither at the time.
I don't think we were. The links were all there under Moyes but under LVG it was quite obvious we were out the picture. We didn't reportedly go for any talks or make any bids.
As mentioned, I don't think we were in for Fabregas under LVG. He was a Moyes target.
I agree we failed to capitalise on Thiago.
Costa had a release clause of £32m for those pointing to him as some sort of example of being able to drive a hard bargain.
Hard bagains aren't the subject, it's about opportunities.
34Ew
This and its a weakness the higher-ups have got to own up to. Considering the junk we have signed for an absolute fortune I think its beyond debate that transfers are a major problem at United and we can't hide behind the market when teams around us are picking up bargains. Corrective measures need to be put in place urgently if we are going to rise from this slump.
Better midfielders than this kid will be signed all over Europe and we'll be left wondering, again. There is no way we should be spending the reported fee on a player we are going to invest time and effort to develop before he meets the standards expected here. Rather than spending another king's ransom on another not so great player we should spend a portion of that poaching whoever does the scout for Dortmund and a high powered football executive who handles transfers for any one of Bayern, Juventus and/or Atletico. We should build a football structure that goes beyond the manager and the first team to ensure that we get value for money in our transfer deals.
We messed up by not going after Vidal again last summer, and instead going for Schweinsteiger/Schneiderlin instead. Vidal after a bit of an uneven start has been very good for Bayern lately, and he was available for a reasonable amount (30 million pounds). He is the type of player who was perfectly suited for the EPL too. I am not saying that we shouldn't have signed either Schneiderlin or Schweinsteiger but we could have chosen to sign just one of them plus Vidal. Vidal and Schneiderlin would have been a pretty interesting midfield duo.
Anyway, from what I've seen, Renato Sanches has the kind of explosiveness and dribbling ability that Vidal has (probably more actually) but lacks the aggression, tackling, and the ability of Vidal going forward. But if Sanches has a chance of becoming a prime Vidal type B2B midfielder, he'd be worth the fee.
Anyway, from what I've seen, Renato Sanches has the kind of explosiveness and dribbling ability that Vidal has (probably more actually) but lacks the aggression, tackling, and the ability of Vidal going forward. But if Sanches has a chance of becoming a prime Vidal type B2B midfielder, he'd be worth the fee.
Look at you talking sense. You better watch out!
It wasnt me, someone hacked my account
Vidal would not have chose United over Bayern last summer. That's the problem. That will be repeated this summer by the top players if we are not in the CL and they have bids from teams that are!
Of course it is, but my point is that it's much easier to use our wealth to our advantage with the latter: We can't realistically outbid or otherwise outmuscle Barcelona for the likes of Neymar, but we can pay through the teeth to get Martial.
A strategy involving unfinished, potential world beaters suits us better than a Galactico approach on several levels.
We don't even have to pay through our teeth if we spot them at the right time. Only Martial and Sterling have recently gone for obscene money. Other teenagers or players around 20/21 get signed for respectable fees. But I agree, if you can't get the big names get the next big name. But we have to make sure it's one of those genuinely incredible talents, though. Martial and Shaw are perfect examples. They've just clearly got it.
So you're saying we should sign the next Messi?
Of course.
We should. It's easy, when you think about it...
But, again, the point here is very simple: United are presently in a different bracket compared to our rivals at the highest level (the level we hopefully aspire to be at). We have money, but not enough to positively outmuscle said rivals. And we're down for the count, performance wise and results wise, at the moment. And we have never been able to compete with certain clubs in terms of location.
So, it becomes a question of using our money wisely. If you're willing to go the extra yard when competing for The Next Messi, you may just land him, because the factors that count in favour of our rivals when we're talking established world beaters don't count to the same degree when we're talking talented youngsters. We landed Ronaldo, doing something very similar: He was a player widely known as a huge talent, and we paid a substantial amount (more than anyone was willing to pay at the time) to secure him.
We did the same for Ando and Nani. And therein you have the upside and downside of the strategy. But we have the money to play that game: We can afford an Ando here and there.
Signing Sanchez would not be using our money wisely.
When we signed Ronaldo everyone knew we had signed a future superstar. Everyone who watched his debut for us knew he was going to become a great player. He had all the attributes in place visible to see even on that debut day. Watch the footage of the friendly when we played Sporting and you can see very clearly how special he was and what he was going to become.
Sanchez hasnt shown anything even remotely close to that.
He might go on to be a very good player but he might also turn out to be a flop at our level.
Signing Sanchez is not using our money wisely.
Umm we were in the CL at that time and I am assuming you are using that bs Sky article for your claim, which turned out to be misleading. Vidal said he never got an offer from us.
""Yes, there was a chance to come to England," Vidal told The Times. "It was last summer, and at one point, we thought that is what would happen.
I liked the opportunity that they had offered me, but eventually it did not happen and I chose to come to Bayern. "
Someone hacked your account again.
H
Ha!
That's exactly the same argument which could have been made against...let's see:
Ando: Who turned out shite.
Nani: Who turned out alright.
Ronaldo: Who turned out a world beater.
Martial: Who has so far looked very promising.
The flop risk is - obviously - part and parcel of the strategy (what else could it be?).
The problem for me is that I dont see Sanchez as being as promising as Ando, Nani, Ronaldo or Martial. I have said earlier in this thread that the Utd scouts will know more than me and I could be completely wrong. I watch Sanchez and i just think the hype far exceeds what I am seeing.
Good post. It's very easy to use hindsight when looking back and judging transfers like this but the reality is that it's always a gamble when buying young players, some develop into good players, some will fail and a very small percentage turn into world beaters.
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