No my arse is fine and it also isnt a scout.
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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No my arse is fine and it also isnt a scout.
Despite my reservations before... He can't be worse or have a smaller impact then Schneiderlin/Fellaini/Carrick/Schweinsteiger these days so we may as well bring him in.
Erm... OK
It shows what I was saying, that his first touch is awful many times and you have examples every match. So it's wrong to suggest that he just has a little problem, sometimes. He has a lot of problems which go from undefinition and lack of knowledge about basic things of the game, to permanent bad decisions and some serious technical flaws.
Of course he can improve, I never said he won't be good enough to play for us. All I'm saying is that he's not ready to play here at the moment, and what he's doing by now doesn't justify a big transfer at all. I don't deny he's one player to follow and personally I like his strength and character, he looks a very brave guy, but the rest is so unclear to make a big gamble now.
While there's no doubt that Martial has talent, I disagree about this. The highest paid player at the club and Holland's most promising talent should have kept Martial on the bench for the time being, or at least give him a run for his money. Neither Rooney nor Depay were able to do that
No it showed that his first touch was awful ONE time.
Have only seen him once, in the game in Munich. He did not do anything particularly good or bad and did not look out of place. Which is encouraging for an 18 year old against Bayern. However, he did not stand out either and sometimes the game seemed to pass him by. It's far too soon to tell whether he has the class we need in the engine room.
If I had to compile all his mistakes I'd be busy the whole day. Some examples more but just because it's you. Enjoy:
Perfect control valued at 35 M. The following jump 5 M. Total = 40 M.
http://imgur.com/2IKbDhs
Another one. They forgot that moment on his Youtube compilations.
http://imgur.com/123Mjw5
Not bad here I must admit, he was close to touch the ball:
http://imgur.com/HuLHlxr
Amazing dribbling on his own half, with his teammates waiting for the ball in the 89, with 2-2 on the score.
http://imgur.com/NoANcec
Fantastic touch dribbling through the center, leaving his team exposed yeah but who cares about that. He runs a lot and his hair is amazing.
http://imgur.com/MyrlOyX
Once again, I insist that it would be pointless to write him off, and it's logical that a young kid has a lot of work to do. He seems an interesting prospect and as a club we are doing it well by following his evolution. But we can't pretend here that he's awesome now and he 'just has some little problems, sometimes'. That's simply wrong.
Ah, the old "he's not worth X amount of money" debate. I still don't get why people are so concerned with the transfer fees. It's the current reality in the market and won't be changing soon, so just get over it and accept the fact that sometimes potential could cost huge money as well. The sugar daddy clubs have inflated the market and now clubs want 30 million for every decent player and top quality costs much more. I think Sanchez has shown enough to convince us to buy him and for an 18-year-old player to do what he's been doing this season, I reckon he could be worth it. "Could" because you never know, there's always a risk, but there's also a risk with the so called established players. Just look at Di Maria and many others.
Our club has always been looking to buy the top youngsters, it's just we have to pay more money nowadaways that's changed and people need to get used to it not because it's good, but because that's the present reality. It's pointless to be unhappy with it just because some other player that you rate just as high could cost less.
I say sign him to add some energy and pace into our slow as feck midfield. Watched the Liverpool - Dortmund game and after our game today, I feel like the game kept freezing, but nope - we're just that fecking slow.
Our club has always been looking to buy the top youngsters, it's just we have to pay more money nowadaways that's changed and people need to get used to it not because it's good, but because that's the present reality. It's pointless to be unhappy with it just because some other player that you rate just as high could cost less.
I say sign him to add some energy and pace into our slow as feck midfield. Watched the Liverpool - Dortmund game and after our game today, I feel like the game kept freezing, but nope - we're just that fecking slow.
You do realise that it would be easy to make a list like that showing individual mistakes for every single player in the world, every player gets dispossessed and have bad touches from time to time, showing a list with some of them proves absolutely nothing about a player.
Whoscored don't have statistics from the Portuguese league but from his 6 CL games they do have. According to them he gets dispossessed 1.2 times per game and has 0.8 bad touches per game, if you think that's an awful lot of mistakes per game I wonder what players you suggest we look for.
Here are the same statistics for some other midfielders for comparison, I only used statistics from CL games for a more fair judgement.
Dispossessed Bad touches
Verratti.................0.6.........0.4
Matuidi..................1.4........2.1
Rabiot...................1.7.........0.9
Vidal.....................0.6.........1.0
Thiago...................0.8.........0.8
Saul......................1.9.........1.4
Koke.....................2.3..........0.4
Modric...................0.6.........0.4
Casemiro ...............0.6.........0.1
Rakitic...................0.8..........0.4
Iniesta...................1.3..........0.6
Busquets................1.0..........0.7
Pogba....................1.4..........2.1
Because people think that the club isn't a endless well of money and that since we need several players, we shouldn't spend without thinking. The problem isn't with the amount in itself but the proportion that the amount represent in our hypothetical budget.
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I say let that cnut Woody worry about money as he's been signing sponsor after sponsor instead of sacking Vangle 6 months ago. We're not an endless pit of money, but we're still fecking rich and I'm sure the budget will be planned accordingly in order to be able to afford to sign the necessary players this summer. We need a new manager, a CB, midfielder, right winger and maybe another offensive player and we should be set. I'm pretty sure we'll be getting all of these, regardless of our interest in Sanches.
Even if we end up paying over the odds for Sanches, I'm sure it'd be a structured payment and it wouldn't affect this summer's transfer budget much.
Not to mention, it inflates the market further, and the next time we negotiate for a player, the selling club will definitely argue that we paid X amount of money for ABC, and must pay X+Y for QWE. It's like paying £5 for a bag of carrots that are actually worth £1 - only because you're loaded, and ah - but why are you concerned with money? And then folk wonder why we have several underperformers bought for wages higher than their market value - who're being paid loads of money, and who can't be sold because no other club is willing to pay what we pay them in weekly wages. There's a need to be prudent, and sniff out shrewd acquisitions like Weigl or Coman, than pay over the odds just because you can, and are desperate enough.
I haven't said that we should splash the cash without any thought just because we're loaded, but finding gems like Coman and Weigl is not something that you can do on a regular basis. It's down to great scouting and is very circumstantial as well. As I already said, that's the current market situation and it affects all big clubs just like it'll affect all Premier League teams because of the new TV deal. Sometimes you have to pay more money for potential or risk losing out to some other club. There's risk involved, but there's risk in splashing the cash on established players as well. There needs to be a balance between searching for gems like Evra and Vidic and going for the top talent in world football that's bound to be overpriced.
The market is already inflated and teams have been adding the "United tax" long before the Martial transfer. Madrid are splashing up the cash almost every summer, they hold the transfer records for a reason, yet they continue doing it because that's how you stay on the top. We just have to continue doing what we've been doing for years - mix youngsters with potential with experienced players and accept the fact that sometimes it'll work out and sometimes it won't.
Dembele is a winger. I know Traore was rated the best player at the U20 tournament but he's only played 300 odd minutes this season? There's no central midfielder 'in his bracket' playing to the same standard. Rubén Neves seems to have petered out and Tielemans has had a very underwhelming season. I really like the look of Sergej-Milinkovic Savic of Lazio, so maybe he is one.
I know that he is a winger, I'm saying that I would spend the 50m€ on those two players instead of spending it on Sanches, that way the rest of the money can be splashed on someone like Kroos and CB.
Not to mention the level of player £40m should buy when you decide to spend sensibly. Buying a player you'd still need to develop a lot over the next years for that money doesn't make sense when others will buying better/more accomplished players for less.
€50m would barely be enough for Kroos let alone a CB. Why would you splash it on Adama Traore who barely plays for Monaco in Ligue 1, let alone matches in the UCL?
We need a world class CM. ok bringing him in but only if secondary to to an accomplished player who has been there and done it in the centre of the park.
PS I dont mean the Tiger....his best days were behind him! Kroos would be an option....
PS I dont mean the Tiger....his best days were behind him! Kroos would be an option....
Adama Traoré was their best player before his injury and he was Lille best player last season, so he would be a player I would take a punt at for around 20m€. And obviously Kroos will cost a little bit more probably around 65m€.
I think it makes bettet sense to revamp our scouting network to ensure we have more of those finds as compared to simply accept our fate and pay the "United tax". We have already spent a quarter of a billion on mostly rubbish like Rojo, Darmian and Memphis, I don't think we should add to it by spending that much on a player that won't give us the immediate results we need right now.
I agree, but talent rarely stays under the radar like in the cases of Weigl, Coman etc. Besides, Sanches might surprise us all and contribute immediately just like he's doing for Benfica right now. After all, I don't think many people expected Martial to become such an important player for us in such short space of time.
We just need to find the right mix between youth talent and and experience like we've been doing for years under Fergie. Of course, improving the scouring network to have a better chance of finding these gems is the much better option, but it's also nice to have the ability to flex our financial muscles when we feel that we cannot lose out on a special talent. Some people probably won't agree, but maybe the club views Sanches as one of those special talents that have to be signed no matter what.
Even if we pay over 40 million for him, I'm pretty sure it'd be a structured payment and our summer budget would be just fine. These types of fees are rarely being paid up front, most of the time it's the maximum fee depending on various clauses for future performances and the overall success of the team. Besides, if we sign him, we probably won't have to pay him a huge salary, at least not in the first couple of years, which would even things out a bit.
It's so they can engage in pointless internet debates about net spend and crow on about the bargains the club have unearthed while the likes of Real and Barca splash out record sums of money and generally not giving a single feck.
Our scouts and money men are generally excellent and know what they're doing. We'll keep on unearthing good players either through our academy or by buying prudently. In the meantime, we need to go out and spend the feck tonees of money we generate. In footballing terms, we pretty much do have an endless well of money and it's about time we flexed our muscles.
@Phil Osophy 's gifs have made me think of a Portuguese Ross Barkley.
Agreed.
Erm have you seen our recent signings?
When it comes to younger players they are generally quite good. We've picked up quite a lot of good players over the years on the cheap. Financially we're very sound. We're virtually shitting money these days.
The likes of Rojo, Darmian, Schneiderlin etc.. have been wank but that's probably more to do with LVG being a clown.
Very good post. Verratti is a crown jewel.
Xavi Hernandez about the Italy midfielder
Matuidi and Rabiot are box-to-box players. As you can see, the technical level of Matuidi (28y) is limited but has a high work-rate.
Rabiot is more brilliant and much more younger (20y): huge potential for improvement
Other than martial, I cant remember a young player that, we signed in the past five years, that has a long term future in the team so I wouldnt credit our scouting team too much.
Shaw, Martial, Fosu-Mensah and possibly even Januzaj, Memphis and Pereira. It's difficult to say whether that's big credit to the scouting team anyway, because the surest bets are the ones we priced out other clubs for (Shaw/Martial).
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Phil Jones if he didn't keep breaking down. Memphis, Luke Shaw, De Gea might have made that 5 year mark? But in general he is right.
Out of those, its only shaw really. And it remains to be seen whether he will return to his former level or not after his injury. Martial I have already mentioned, januzaj, pereira and even memphis(unless he steps his game up in a big way next season) wont make it here.
Januzaj, Pereira and even Pogba not making it is not the fault of the scouts.
You're judging the scouts wrong then. Januzaj and Andreas has enough natural ability to make it here, whether they make it count is upto them. Similarly our scouts found a world class player in Pogba very early.
Edit: Not that I think our scouts are excellent, they clearly aren't. But our youth scouting is very good.
Hmm yeah you are right there, I was more looking at it from the pov that the player should be someone who can contribute to the first team i.e. has those qualities but thats a flawed way of looking at youth scouting.
Sorry but the crown jewel is Casemiro according to these stats. It tells you everything about it.
All these numbers are pointless out of context, and we need to see also what they consider a bad touch, because I'm seeing more than "0'8" every match in the case of Renato. Maybe they don't count it when he doesn't manage to control the ball, because he actually doesn't even touch it, I don't know.
Then it's not the same thing being dispossessed while facing the opposition pressure or trying to dribble a full-back, that being dispossessed because you decide to run against three players through the middle, or you keep the ball when you are surrounded instead of making a quick pass. It happened several times against Bayern and some people say "it was Bayern" as a excuse, but that's an aggravating in my opinion. If it's Bayern then use your fecking head and be more responsible.
The problem with Renato is not he loses the ball sometimes, more or less than anyone. His problem in my opinion is that his lack of knowledge, impulsive decisions and his unreliable touch are going to lead him and his team permanently to bad situations. And these are not his only flaws precisely. He's not ready for a big move, and unless he starts showing capacity to improve these aspects I wouldn't move a finger to sign him, let alone paying a fortune which is not deserved at all even in the current market. He needs to stay there for one more year at least and keep playing every week, and it will give the club a better perspective to analyze his progress, if there's any.
The stats show one thing and that is that he doesn't make anymore mistakes in possession than other highly rated midfielders, exactly the opposite of your claims that he looses the ball to much due to bad touches and to many dribbles nothing else nothing more.Sorry but the crown jewel is Casemiro according to these stats. It tells you everything about it.
All these numbers are pointless out of context, and we need to see also what they consider a bad touch, because I'm seeing more than "0'8" every match in the case of Renato. Maybe they don't count it when he doesn't manage to control the ball, because he actually doesn't even touch it, I don't know.
Then it's not the same thing being dispossessed while facing the opposition pressure or trying to dribble a full-back, that being dispossessed because you decide to run against three players through the middle, or you keep the ball when you are surrounded instead of making a quick pass. It happened several times against Bayern and some people say "it was Bayern" as a excuse, but that's an aggravating in my opinion. If it's Bayern then use your fecking head and be more responsible.
The problem with Renato is not he loses the ball sometimes, more or less than anyone. His problem in my opinion is that his lack of knowledge, impulsive decisions and his unreliable touch are going to lead him and his team permanently to bad situations. And these are not his only flaws precisely. He's not ready for a big move, and unless he starts showing capacity to improve these aspects I wouldn't move a finger to sign him, let alone paying a fortune which is not deserved at all even in the current market. He needs to stay there for one more year at least and keep playing every week, and it will give the club a better perspective to analyze his progress, if there's any.
Benfica - Setubal starts in 15 minutes if someone is interested in seeing him play.
Recording Benfica's game while I watch the 2nd half of Stoke/Spurs.
I'm watching it now because I've got a bet on. Neat and tidy start from him so far. Benfica 1 down after about 15 seconds mind
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