I think that credit should go to SAF staff (and I am one of their toughest critics). Neither Moyes nor LVG's staff had been around long enough to develop the kids..
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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I think that credit should go to SAF staff (and I am one of their toughest critics). Neither Moyes nor LVG's staff had been around long enough to develop the kids..
Do you really think that Martial would be first teamer if Rooney and Depay were delivering the goods and playing as well as they used to or are paid to do? I much doubt it. I am not 100% happy of having 18-19 years being regular first teamers. They may have the skill but their body has yet to fully develop and one injury at this stage can hinder them badly. The likes of Owen and fat Ronaldo suffered because of it.
Dont take me wrong I am not criticizing Martial/Rashford. Actually thank god we have them. However older players should step up and be counted rather then these kids.
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What you are saying is two separate things though. Owen and Ronaldo had shorter careers but guys like shearer and Giggs were surely playing at least 30 games when they were 19-20 too and they went on to have long careers too so it's not like all players are affected by it. Obviously we want all players in form but him being 19 doesn't mean that he shouldn't start. As delle alli has shown, it all depends on how you perform. If you are good enough, you are old enough.
I agree with @devilish in that Martial wasn't expected to be first choice over Depay when he was bought. Depay was 22 and dutch player of the year with over 20 league goals in Holland...pretty much everyone thought he would be starting on the left for us but instead he has completely flopped and been useless. I don't think many expected him to outperform Depay in his first year as he is 2 years younger and a lot less experienced. If I remember correctly Martial was only signed when Monaco got knocked out of the CL qualifiers as a deal wasn't possible before then so Depay must have been the initial plan and Martial the back up to Rooney. Plus it doesn't sound like LVG expected him to perform so well
LVG is a dumbass, Martial was consistent and mature that's why when we signed him I said that people should forget about his age. Martial was always going to play a lot.
I don't think he was doing anything other than play down expectations to protect Martial, which is what any manager does with a youngster. He wouldn't have paid close to 60M if he did not think he was a special player.
He says he knew how good he was but didn't expect him to show consistency at this stage. Not that he didn't expect him to be this good. Memphis himself is young and frankly I expected him to score maybe 11 goals and maybe 8 assists in all competitions. Consider its his first season, a huge step up, I didn't expect a lot.
You are right but he is still a dumbass and I'm upset because people seem to think that their initial underrating of Martial was somehow close to the truth, Martial was the real deal when we bought him, he is/was better than Memphis and Memphis will never take his place, Martial was always going to play ahead of him.
Now on topic, I don't think that we should spend top money on Sanches not because of a lack of talent but because top money should be reserved for experienced top players.The all point of targeting future stars is to not have to pay top money (on wage and transfer fees).
But if we do buy Sanches he shouldn't be discriminated for his age, if we don't intend to respect that then we should leave him alone and he should stay at Benfica and exploit his talent in a club where he is valued.
Giggs and Shearer were lucky not to pick injuries at that young age. And where have I said that he shouldn't start? All I am saying is that if Rooney/Depay lived to their hype then Martial wouldn't be a first teamer. Also having to rely on a 19-20 year old isn't ideal especially when you are supposed to have Dutch player of the year and the most paid British player in the EPL in his position
I just watched the game and I'm still not impressed with him. For every good action there's always 4 poor first touches or misplaced passes, some of them ridiculous. He's permanently ruining attacks and transitions by thinking too much and choosing the wrong option, or trying to dribble 2-3 players. His defensive positioning is really poor, he runs like a crazy horse sometimes leaving the team exposed. Before the Vidal goal all the team tracks back to protect the box and he's not even in the picture.
It's fair to say that he always shows strength, hunger and a brave personality. The kid has a pair of balls, there's no doubt about it. But I don't see at the moment any tactical or technical aspect where he's showing some reliability. Maybe in Portugal against regional teams he does everything better, but against decent sides I always come to the same conclusions. Before making a big gamble it would be better to leave him there for one more year and analyze his evolution. By the moment a big transfer is not justified.
It's fair to say that he always shows strength, hunger and a brave personality. The kid has a pair of balls, there's no doubt about it. But I don't see at the moment any tactical or technical aspect where he's showing some reliability. Maybe in Portugal against regional teams he does everything better, but against decent sides I always come to the same conclusions. Before making a big gamble it would be better to leave him there for one more year and analyze his evolution. By the moment a big transfer is not justified.
Martial is in the Rooney and Ronaldo bracket of talents. We didn't realize his ability but he was always going to start. Maybe not absolutely every game to the point of appearing fatigued but regular starter nonetheless. Rashford I agree about, but Martial is different.
I just don't see it, he just seems like a worse version of Schneiderlin.
Ronaldo was brought as direct replacement to Beckham. At the time his competitors were Ole (a striker) and Fletcher (a CM). Rooney was brought as no 10 behind RVN. His competitors at the time were Saha who was always injured and Smith who was nowhere near to Rooney's talent. The situation is somehow different here. Martial competitors are Depay whose been Holland player of the year and who was hailed by LVG as one of the top 4 most promising players around and Rooney the most highly paid player we've got and team captain.
I am not arguing that he was meant to play games. After all both Depay and Rooney would have needed rest and we're short of staff upfront. However he was never meant to be a first teamer in his first season with us. He became so because others failed
I was not that impressed with him either at first, but looking at those YT-videoes against Bayern (given that the videoes are complete) I struggle to understand why people dont rate his technique.
It depends on the definition of technique. But for me, his decision making is more the trouble. Dribbles too much against too many players, and some easy misplaced passes too. But that is nothing that cant be worked on. But as a CM with drive, determination and dribbling is exactly what we need. The Bayern games were important for him, a lot to be learned there.
From the limited clips I've seen on him, he looks to be the type of midfielder we need- Whether he is of the quality required to really be more than good for us (and worth the amounts being talked about) is another question
Yeah he has finished his development at 18 he should just pack it up and go home.
Nah you're right, let's spunk 40m on a player that won't improve our starting XI with a very real possibility of never improving behind his current level, thats what we need to start competing again.
Hey chief scout how are you doing? I didnt know we had bona fide scouts on the board.
Also is it your money? no!
That's a fairly regular occurrence, we can't really tell.
But it's safe to say he isn't the finish article? The hypocrisy
Well to be fair it's very safe to assume he's not the finished article at the age of 18But it's safe to say he isn't the finish article? The hypocrisy
Now now enough with this sensibility lark theres ranting to be done.
Exactly and we cant tell he is going to be a worse Schneiderlin
When does Schneiderlin ever run with the ball? He wouldn't even attempt half the things that Sanches did against Bayern.
Obviously not everything he tried came off, but he's clearly got a lot of talent and 10/10 for confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bayern themselves in for him. I hope we've got him tied down.
Does anyone have a clue if this lad is actually good?
Like take a tielmans who everyone has been talking about coming through for years. Is this guy a case of, wow he's 17 and can play CM in a shit league? Or a case of he's strong for a 17 year old and can hold his own? Is he john obi mikel
Like take a tielmans who everyone has been talking about coming through for years. Is this guy a case of, wow he's 17 and can play CM in a shit league? Or a case of he's strong for a 17 year old and can hold his own? Is he john obi mikel
That's why you are both ridiculous and that's why most people in this thread are ridiculous. There is no reason to fight over something as ridiculous as predicting the future, we are all shite at that, by "all" I mean the fans, the player, the scouts, the coaches and the boards.
That's why you don't pay 40m for a 18 years old who plays like a very good 18 years old, if he was playing like a very good veteran then you can spend 40m but it's not the case, he is an excellent prospect and we should pay excellent prospect money which is around 15m£-25m£, which by the way was the price that Monaco expected for Martial in 2017.
PS: We need to remember that Monaco sold Kondogbia for 35m€, he was their best player, they didn't need the money and his sale was scheduled for 2017.
An 18 year old that isn't the finished article?! I'm shocked! He should be ashamed of himself. Clearly a slow developer. Messi was winning Balon d'Ors at 18 after all. Oh wait...But it's safe to say he isn't the finish article? The hypocrisy
Oh if he went to Bayern he would be a superstar. If he is linked to us he is rubbish
I havent once predicted the guys future, so dont lump me in with the super scouts on here thank you very much.
This is so true.
If he was rumored to be on his way to Bayern people on here would be moaning about why we can't be signing players like him and talking about what a well run club Bayern is and that we should be more like them.
Sorry, it was a friendly fire.
That depends on how much money one got and what other players that money can buy. But maybe you think it's better to hold on to the money and pay it out as dividends to the owners than overspending on some of the best young players in the world.
This thread will rumble on and on.
We can't even give LVG credit for buying martial lol nobody thought he was worth the money. If anyone can show me a post from the day the newpaper article came out saying 'no, this lad is one of the best players in the world, he is well worth the money' ill eat my words
Nope LVG wont get credit for anything positive.
no worries.
Nor have I, just a view on what I've seen so far, but you seemed to get butthurt about it nonetheless.
United don't hold the money to pay dividends so we should stop with this type of bs. And I think that United for its own sake should spend intelligently, throwing money around isn't a way of managing a football club and we need a lot more than a CM. Also Sanches isn't the only midfielder around and there are better young midfielders and I will precise that I put him in a group of players who are between 18 and 22 years old, because if we were lucky to keep them for 10 years, the oldest players would be 32 which is a good age and in those 10 years dozens of young midfielders will appear.
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