He's a unit but for a work horse CDM for half the price couldn't we get someone who's league proven in Kante?
Renato Sanches
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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He's not a CDM and definitely not just a workhorse.
Ever seen Kante hit 1 in the top corner from 35 yards?
Hasn't Sanches done that exactly once? Welbeck's first goal for United was a 35 yard screamer against Stoke, can't say I remember him coming close to replicating that. Even Tiote scored one like that against Arsenal in the 4-4 comeback a few years ago. 35 yard shots are an incredible waste of possession and hugely -EV anyway and the number of players scoring regularly (regularly enough for it to be the correct play that is) from that distance is miniscule if they exist at all.
Found the poker player
Maybe because he is focused on tackling and ball interceptions. But that doesn't mean he won't dribble or shot from distance. However, I think we will have our 4 attacking players (wingers, #10 and striker) to do that.
Such as Schneiderlin? A player being "league proven" means feck all IMO.
Wasn't top corner and didn't go in.
I've seen Sanches shoot quite a few times from distance and he's got great power in his shots, it wasn't a fluke.
All jokes aside I like Kante, but Leicester aren't going to let him go cheaply. Mourinho is going to prefer a Portuguese speaker and so will Mendes. I just think this is written in the stars. I'm happy with that because the kid is absolute class.
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When I call him a defensive/supportive player I don't mean he's necessarily a holding midfielder. I consider Matuidi and Khedira defensive players, even if they move all around the field and get into the box sometimes. But their offensive contribution is just supportive, normally they play it simple and remain on a second plane. Their task is mainly physical and protective, more about covering space, to be prepared after a ball loss to put immediate pressure and some other things.
Renato is young and can develop in every sense but by the moment I can't see him as a complete player. Benfica is giving him room to express and see how he responds in every way, and the kid is trying a lot of different things. But I'm not sold with his overall skills, and I think his guarantee now is just his physical attributes and great mentality and work rate. He's not consistent and reliable in any other aspect.
I'd try to sign him anyway if Benfica was reasonable at setting the price, I don't deny he's an interesting prospect. But I wouldn't make a big bet here, when all we need is some energy and muscle to dynamize our apathetic midfield.
We can try to find a future star for midfield, but in that case we should pay attention to more technical players, the ones who control games like Modric or Xavi. Every player can make good isolated actions and get a clip on youtube, but not too many can dictate the tempo and lead their teams as a constant, with intelligence and precision. If we found a young player with that profile I'd even pay money from my pocket. Unfortunately the people at our club go to the beach and don't find the water.
Renato is young and can develop in every sense but by the moment I can't see him as a complete player. Benfica is giving him room to express and see how he responds in every way, and the kid is trying a lot of different things. But I'm not sold with his overall skills, and I think his guarantee now is just his physical attributes and great mentality and work rate. He's not consistent and reliable in any other aspect.
I'd try to sign him anyway if Benfica was reasonable at setting the price, I don't deny he's an interesting prospect. But I wouldn't make a big bet here, when all we need is some energy and muscle to dynamize our apathetic midfield.
We can try to find a future star for midfield, but in that case we should pay attention to more technical players, the ones who control games like Modric or Xavi. Every player can make good isolated actions and get a clip on youtube, but not too many can dictate the tempo and lead their teams as a constant, with intelligence and precision. If we found a young player with that profile I'd even pay money from my pocket. Unfortunately the people at our club go to the beach and don't find the water.
He looks very talented from the clips I've seen. Nothing like the supposed workhorse with average technical skills mentioned in this thread. In fact, he appears to be a rather skillful CM who likes driving forward with the ball and taking on defenders. Maybe others have seen full games of his, but I can only hope that he turns out a quality player if we do sign him.
Not necessarily. If we can sign the next Essien now, we have to go for it. He wasn't a Xavi or Modric, but he was absolutely immense for awhile (and should have been better really). Many types of midfielders can be great midfielders, not just the tiny metronomic ones. I don't disagree that we should after those as well.
This is exactly what he is. Except that the defensive side of his game is probably actually more notable for now. Which is a good thing!
People think we should pass up on a talented midfielder just because he can defend so he ought to be cheap. Wait, what?
The thing with Sanches is that he doesn't really excel at any particular part of the game but instead he is good at almost everything so it's really hard to put him in a bracket for what type of player he is and compare him with other players. From the games I have seen him in I'd say the only real weakness to his game is his aerial play which is very limited due to him being a fairly short guy.
What Mendes wants should be irrelevant and why would Jose care what language a player speaks? He speaks English and so does Kante.
A lot of players can be great midfielders, but for me a superstar is something different. If we want to make a bet to find 'the next big thing' of midfield (which was one of the arguments in the last pages to support, or understand this potential signing) I'd go for an orchestra director, not for a complementary player. We don't need to spend too much to find established players who can perform that role excellently, and you know exactly what you sign.
With Renato we have a player who's capable of playing an excellent pass, and the next action he's dispossessed in a critical zone after an awful first touch, or he loses the ball trying to drive through the middle like he was Messi, and leaves the team exposed. The kid needs to polish his touch, learn the game and define himself. We are seeing raw materials and some good glimpses here and there, but nothing solid in deep. I always say he's an interesting prospect even with his flaws and questions marks, but the numbers related to his possible transfer are not acceptable in any case.
Superstar is such a vague term. We'll be signing lots of young talented players over the next few years. There's no need to be fixated on one kind IMO. I'd love a Roy Keane/Essien in our squad at some point in the future. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want us to sign a young Verratti either.
Btw, looking at our squad 2-3 years from now, I'd argue that we need both a playmaking midfielder and a box to box midfielder. No immediately but there's no harm in grabbing them early. Schweinteiger and Carrick would probably both be gone, leaving Herrera and Schneiderlin as our two main midfielders. One is a pass and move sort of player, and the other appears to be a defense minded CM.
Like it not mendes has a lot of friends and persuasion at our club. Add mourinho the fold, he will get the players he wants. Obviously he doesn't HAVE to speak Portuguese, but mourinho has always been fond of them. Plenty of Brazilians too. Whether he will continue that theme when here who knows.
We'll be in another mess then, the players should be bought based on being the best for the position we want, not because an agent wants to dump all his clients onto our wage bill. He should work for us, not the other way around.
I've always got the impression Mourinho liked his teams to speak English as the most common language for team communication.
I was impressed with Draxler against Madrid and if i am not wrong he playes the number 10 position. Would not mind having him here in the future.
People love Veratti but he was playing in the Italian 2nd division at the age Sanches is now. Could only imagine the reaction had we signed him from Pescara.
iirc Verratti was very highly rated at Pescara anyway, along with Insigne, Immobile and Capuano? when they won Serie B together.
Renato is very highly rated too.
And Sanches isn't highly rated for a side in the champions league 1/4 finals and top of their league?
Renato is also being touted at 5 times the price of Veratti.
And how much do you think verratti would be available for? 80m would probably get you his left foot.
Because he was playing at a far inferior level to what Sanches is at the same age.
Of course, I don't think we should search just one type of midfielder, I always say we need a player to add some strength and energy to our midfield. But there's lower and higher profiles. And the midfield director is the golden piece there, the most influential and difficult to find. There's a lot of excellent players out there who can perform a secondary / supportive role. You don't need a football legend to do that.
It's not the best example maybe, but it would be like we were ready to offer 40 M. for a young striker because he's good at the box at 18, but he can't control a ball. You can sign good stablished players with that profile for half of that money. If you spend big on a young player based on his potential, he has to be an exclusive profile which is not available for you in any other way.
From that point, if someone thinks Renato is a unique profile I respect his opinion, but I don't think he is. That's why I said I could accept a crazy offer for a young player who looks like Xavi or Modric, because we can't sign this kind of player normally, and making a bet with a young player could be the only way. We did with Martial and I supported it, I never said anything about the price. But everybody can sign players to add energy, strength, cover field and support the attacks. Unless Renato starts showing something more, I won't accept the numbers around his potential signing.
As well as being signed 4 years ago.
I meant that I don't think people would have been so averse to signing Verratti.
Well, signing a "football legend" is something that's pretty darn hard. I think it's rather unrealistic to be expecting such signings as a fan with any sort of regularity. And you can't pause the transfer business until you find that player given it could be years till you do.
If he ends up as a top class midfielder like Essien/Keane, then he'll do much more than the paltry set of contributions you mention, which sound more like what Scott Parker did. Everybody can sign average midfielders like that, but not all midfielders who rely on well-roundedness rather than elite technique, are players "everybody can sign".
Also, there's no reason to take the fees reported as gospel. The press has a tenancy, as we all know, to exaggerate/speculate/make stuff up.
And if he doesn't progress he'll become an expensive flop. I don't think it will be the case, but everything can happen with him in the future. The point and where opinions differ, is if we would make a big bet now if Benfica demanded a huge offer this summer, based on what he's doing by the moment. If someone thinks it's worth the risk then it's perfect, but I'm not convinced to sign him now at any cost.
He's bought 3 Portuguese players at three clubs over the last 8 seasons - that's not a particularly strong trend. He did bring a load of Portuguese players over when he first joined Chelsea but I think that was due to his familiarity with the market at an early point his career as opposed to any preference for Portuguese players.
He reminds me of Anderson but much better physically at least by look of him.I like the way he hustles and some his passes to front three are really good.
As is the case with any big signing.
I'm not convinced either, naturally, given I've barely seen the kid, but I'm a lot more interested, as of now, in the player he can become rather than the fee, which I'd like to see something more concrete on.
Costa (Yes he's Brazilian) Willian, Kenedy, Ramires, David Luiz, Deco, Quaresma, Bosingwa, Ricardo Carvalho, Tiago, Paulo Fereira, he has had his fair share, but It's true lately he's been a bit more open. Maybe that's due to the lack of quality from Brazil/Portugal lately, or maybe as his reputation has risen more foreign players have wanted to join him.
Anyway I am not saying if it's a choice between a Portuguese speaker or a better player he will choose the former. What I meant was the links are all there for him to sign Sanches. Mendes client, Portuguese, fits his mould of a player. He's almost a little Micheal Essien in my eyes. I think Mourinho could get him to be a brilliant player.
Benfica play Academica today if anyone is interested in watching him play. Game starts in about 40 minutes.
We can't become a Liverpool-like club who just sign anybody who has had one good season - so for me a signing like Kante is out
I would much rather we spent money on the best up and coming talent from around Europe. It also actually works out better financially. We label somebody like Anderson a flop - OK he never hit the heights but how many appearances did he make for a side that (at the time) were dominating the Premiership and reached 3 Champions League finals? £16m looks nothing in that context
If this Sanches lad costs £40m and we get 5 decent seasons out of him it will have been worth it, with the added bonus that you might be buying an absolute superstar
I would much rather we spent money on the best up and coming talent from around Europe. It also actually works out better financially. We label somebody like Anderson a flop - OK he never hit the heights but how many appearances did he make for a side that (at the time) were dominating the Premiership and reached 3 Champions League finals? £16m looks nothing in that context
If this Sanches lad costs £40m and we get 5 decent seasons out of him it will have been worth it, with the added bonus that you might be buying an absolute superstar
You are against signing kante who has had one good season but want to sign a kid who has had half a season in total?
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