There's truth to this but I think it also reveals how simple we can be in the transfer market. Spurs got Deli Ali for a small fee. Mk Dons should have milked them going by our track record of overpaying, but they got a decent deal and he's turned out to be an excellent player. Now, Benfica are obviously not Mk Dons, but we far too often go for very obvious signings which is why we get milked. If we actually managed to unearth gems, we'd be paying low fees.
Renato Sanches
- Thread starter Sassy Colin
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
- Status
The second he is bought I won't care about his price, but until then I will fight anyone who claims that it's a reasonable fee.
I get your point, but if we were buying a player from the lower leagues we would be paying a small fee too (Nick Powell)
Signing players from Benfica especially young highly rated players, playing UCL football usually will cost you some money. Although 40m is crazy though
I think being an 18 year old that had started in the quarter-final games of CL means his asking price will be pretty high, because there simply isn't many other players like that out there.
From what I've seen of Sanches so far, he is definitely more than just a player in top physical shape. His composure and decision making is very good, and is incredibly impressive for someone who had only played top-flight football for 6 months.
From what I've seen of Sanches so far, he is definitely more than just a player in top physical shape. His composure and decision making is very good, and is incredibly impressive for someone who had only played top-flight football for 6 months.
Made 20 appearances for 640 minutes.
Even if he becomes an excellent player, a defensive midfielder is not a star. The highest amounts of money are normally paid for match winners, so I can understand a big bet with Martial, but not for a physical defensive midfielder. It would be like spending 30-40 M. on a defensive right back because he looks strong and composed at 18. If he was a complete player in the making I'd see it right, but it's not the case.
To perform a defensive/supporting role all you need is a sober-headed player, with good physical conditions and acceptable technique, there's no need to make flashy business and search any kind of superstar. I don't mean there's hundreds of players who would be good enough for us, but a lot of teams have signed good defensive midfielders in the last years, and they didn't need to get crazy spending.
Wolfsburg paid around 15 M. € to sign Gustavo, and Leicester got Kante on 8 M pounds. Real spent 5 M. on Casemiro and he's found a place there, and PSG paid 6 M for Matuidi some years ago, as they did with Stambouli last summer. I'm sure 10-15 M it's more than enough to sign a good defensive midfielder if you are clever as a club, there's no need to sell our house to add some strenght to the team.
I know I won't pay it directly from my bank account, but I don't think it's healthy for a club to spend 30-40 M on every player like we've been doing recently. Our quality/cost balance is amateurish, and at this rhythm we're going to have the most expensive squad in football history while we play the Europa League.
To perform a defensive/supporting role all you need is a sober-headed player, with good physical conditions and acceptable technique, there's no need to make flashy business and search any kind of superstar. I don't mean there's hundreds of players who would be good enough for us, but a lot of teams have signed good defensive midfielders in the last years, and they didn't need to get crazy spending.
Wolfsburg paid around 15 M. € to sign Gustavo, and Leicester got Kante on 8 M pounds. Real spent 5 M. on Casemiro and he's found a place there, and PSG paid 6 M for Matuidi some years ago, as they did with Stambouli last summer. I'm sure 10-15 M it's more than enough to sign a good defensive midfielder if you are clever as a club, there's no need to sell our house to add some strenght to the team.
I know I won't pay it directly from my bank account, but I don't think it's healthy for a club to spend 30-40 M on every player like we've been doing recently. Our quality/cost balance is amateurish, and at this rhythm we're going to have the most expensive squad in football history while we play the Europa League.
The new TV money has already had an affect on club's outside of England, Ramos was pushing for a move because United could offer him wages Madrid didn't want to match, Di Maria did move because Madrid wouldn't put him on the same wage tier as Bale/Casillas and even recently Muller has said the wages in England are "interesting". Neymar and his agent have been touting moves to England due to all the complications with what tax rate and wages he'll get paid staying at Barca. Players and agents are very well aware of interest from English clubs and teams like Benfica will hold onto elite level talent knowing they can get a huge fee down the line, they aren't "holding onto someone hoping an english team might come one day" they can simply keep players capable of maintaining their champions league status and sell on any gems when a big offer comes along. Porto and Benfica have done it for years.
Alli was playing in a lower division for a much worse team, if he was playing in the champions league vs Bayern for an English team then we'd see similar figures being thrown around.
Hes not just a defensive midfielder though.... and also times are changing. We paid 27m for a young fullback only 2 seasons ago too
Shaw is a complete fullback, not just a defensive one. We paid the english tax too, as he counts as a home-grown player. We can make some luxuries sometimes, I don't deny it, but it's ridiculous to build a whole squad spending 30-40 M. on every player. Even the kids are more professional playing Fifa.
About Renato I don't agree. He hasn't show anything by the moment to be considered a total player in the making, in my opinion.
That's exactly what smart business is all about i.e not going for obvious names always, which was my point.
That was actually my point. That, while we do have to pay extra because we're Manchester United and loaded, we did manage to sign players like Vidic and Evra in the past, which goes to prove that there is always value in the market if you know how to find it. We don't seem to these days. It's all very obvious transfer activity that doesn't involve any unearthing of hidden gems.
There's obviously more risk in lesser known or unproven players, yes it's great when it works out but you'll get far more duds than Alli for that type of money.
I'm not saying we should chuck money only on lesser known names, however, getting bang for your buck is a sign of a club that is doing great business. And we evidently have not done great business in recent times. Everyone wants their clubs signing top players, but there has to be a balance of being able to attain the best players, and being able to discover what others haven't, or finding the player who is the surprising fit.,
Not a bad performance for a player apparently less talented than Charni Ekangamene
If you can name 5 centre mids currently playing who demonstrated more potential as an 18 year old than Sanches I'll be pleasantly surprised.
England today are like Italy 15 years ago.
I don't find relevant to do that exercise, like potential at 18 determined the whole career. Some players look promising at 18 and they do nothing later, and some others are unknown until 25 and they become great players. I rate Renato as a prospect, even with his flaws and question marks. He's a force of nature and can be a good complement for a creative player, if he evolves in a good way. But he's not showing enough to suggest he'll be the midfield boss and someone who controls the games, so in any case it's justified to pay a big fortune. He's mainly a physical support, a good player at duels, and someone who covers ground.
You can sign good and experienced players to perform that role around 10-15 M., and even less if we were clever as a club. Even if the times have changed we need to be more professional. PSG has a lot of money too and their whole midfield (Verratti, Motta, Matuidi, Stambouli) cost them 30 M. pounds, which is close to what we paid just for Fellaini. Honestly I don't see the point on trying to search the next legendary defensive midfielder. I see it right with attacking players, and kids that look like golden ball material. But if we need to pay 30 M. to sign every player including full backs and defensive midfielders, then we are a joke of a club. Even an hormonal teenager can do that job for free.
Josh McEachran looked class at 17/18. Comparing players when they were 18 is a waste of time, the majority of players don't even get a chance to play at 18.
Point is, if Sanches fulfils his potential he'll go on to be miles better than the players you mentioned. He's not some simple disciplined water carrier, he could become a proper old school centre mid who can do everything. The type of player United have always had until recently when the 433 became fashionable and they became like rocking horse shit. Last player I can think of (until maybe Alli, jury's still out for me there) who showed a similar level of all round ability as a teenager is probably Gerrard. He never fulfilled his promise for me, but would you quibble at paying £50m for a 19 year old Gerrard these days?
Sanches miles better than Veratti? Are you taking the piss? Sanches is nothing like Gerrard of Alli in style of play either.
Wonder if Manuel Fernandes had this kind of hype.
This though I'm not too sure he can be classed as just a defensive midfielder. You are spot on and I'm certain we don't have to look further than home for a player who can bring that physicality. If we made a deluberate and concerted effort I think TFM can be moulded into that type of player instead of this newfound nonsense of spending world class fees on potential that you'd still need to develop and whose development could cost you wins and derail team progress which could result in them developing itchy feet to move on to clubs that match their ambition.
We could and should certainly be smarter on how we approch our transfer business.
People still pretending to be scouts on here then? That or clairvoyants.
McEachran was playing a key role for his team in the CL when he was 18?
I can't think of any midfielder in this age category in resent time that has made this big of a contribution to his team like Sanches has this season.
Now that was a good mention. Benfica fans called him "Manelélé". The overhyping ended when he fell out with the club though.
How so?
I watched the match but haven't watched the highlight vid, I am guessing it doesn't show how intelligently he pressed or how well he held Benfica's defensive shape against wave after wave of Bayern pressure.
The thing for me is we don't have an ideal partner for him, his game has more offense in it than was seen in the Bayern came @the hea will back me up on that as it was very present against Braga. To make a general comparison he need an Alonso to his Modric or Weigl to his Gundogan.
The thing for me is we don't have an ideal partner for him, his game has more offense in it than was seen in the Bayern came @the hea will back me up on that as it was very present against Braga. To make a general comparison he need an Alonso to his Modric or Weigl to his Gundogan.
Isn't he a bit similar to Tim? Do we need both?
Markets outside of the football realm, the special fees and wages were limited to the transactions linked to that market, the rest of the world live in it's own market. For example no one outside of England uses the McCormack transfer as a reference.
Still a top prospect and like I said his very recent form or lack thereof hasn't swayed my opinion on him as the ability is clearly there. Looks to have a much higher ceiling than Sanches and a more mature approach to the game although Sanches also has a mentality above his age.
I think Sanches is currently benefitting from being in and around a more confident team at the moment which shows in his performances but he's definitely not better. Neves being captain at such a young age in a few games also shouldn't be ignored, has all the attiirbutes to be a top player potentially. His form at present makes him a risk but no more than Sanches with the money we'd be expected to pay for him and I know who I'd rather take the risk with personally.
The transfers and wages being thrown around Italian football had a huge impact on other markets, just because club's couldn't match them doesn't mean we didn't see a huge increase in player valuations and wages in all major leagues.
Past injury rates, lack of depth and Fellaini indicate we could use them both with Pogba as a bit more offensive bonus.
Your opinion is actually quite balanced and complimentary on the lad.
Oh btw Sporting were very good that day and used the wide areas very well...specially the wide right.
We can argue all day long whether he might be good enough, you either like the look of him or you don't.
The fact is though I would rather gamble with a young potential world class talent, than buy somebody who's been there and done it like di Maria. He will come to the club and fit in perfectly, but remain very hungry too.
The fact is though I would rather gamble with a young potential world class talent, than buy somebody who's been there and done it like di Maria. He will come to the club and fit in perfectly, but remain very hungry too.
Awaiting the moans on here if we sign him. The Martial thread was a classic. This will top that easily.
Yep, especially those that screamed when you pointed out his cost wasnt all up front.
Who in their right mind said he's better than Verratti?
Verratti is my absolute number 1 midfield dream signing atm....that won't happen!
The post above mine says if he fulfills his potential he'll be miles better than the players Phil Osophy mentioned which include Veratti, Matuidi, Motta, Kante, Casemiro and Luis Gustavo.Who in their right mind said he's better than Verratti?
Verratti is my absolute number 1 midfield dream signing atm....that won't happen!
Aargh, shucks. Didn't read that audit trail properly
Miles better than Verratti, yeah man, that's hyperbole in the extreme.
- Status