Renato Sanches

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It's funny how tinted glasses start far before a club signs a player. I believe Sanches might have everything to be special, but haven't seen that yesterday. I saw a relatively competent game. A few nice touches, and quite a bit of wastefulness play as well. If I'd never heard of him before, I'd call it a very inconclusive performance.

What's certain is that Benfica fans adore him and naturally hype him up, yet barely anyone on their forum considered him the best Benfica player yesterday, even though they weren't unhappy with his performance. Here, there are quite a few saying he was their best man. Figures...

I was more impressed with Lindeloff, and even considering just the midfield, Fejsa looked better - another thing which most Benfiquistas agree with.
 
Stack said:
Seriously?. I dont see that at all. I see an awful lot of losing the ball and missing tackles, the success rate in that is low. A couple of nice passes but the majority of the video is showing failures.
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He's playing against 1 of the best midfield's in the world, do you really expect him to win every tackle and not lose the ball once :lol: you're hilarious. OK we get you don't like him that's fine, but it was a pretty good performance for an 18 year old kid in the biggest game of his career so far.
 
Arruda said:
It's funny how tinted glasses start far before a club signs a player. I believe Sanches might have everything to be special, but haven't seen that yesterday. I saw a relatively competent game. A few nice touches, and quite a bit of wastefulness play as well. If I'd never heard of him before, I'd call it a very inconclusive performance.

What's certain is that Benfica fans adore him and naturally hype him up, yet barely anyone on their forum considered him the best Benfica player yesterday, even though they weren't unhappy with his performance. Here, there are quite a few saying he was their best man. Figures...

I was more impressed with Lindeloff, and even considering just the midfield, Fejsa looked better - another thing which most Benfiquistas agree with.
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It's usually the other way round with him. Despite all the hype everyone here thinks he's average.
 
Need to take into account that Benfica are far inferior to Bayern and were under a lot of pressure. I thought it was a mature performance and at 18 once again showed he can already more then hold his own in midfield at this level, just like previously against Zenit.

Telegraph: His pass completion rate of 91 per cent was the highest of any of Benfica’s front six players, and only 1 per cent lower than his main rival on the night, the established international Arturo Vidal.
 
KikiDaKats said:
There is skepticism and there is also a blatant disregard of what he also brings to the table.
For his age, the responsibility he shoulders in this team warrants the hype. I personally don't like hype around young players but we shouldn't tempering it by pointing out flaws that are non existent.
Btw he seem to be getting better with the hype and experience. Even in games he is not putting in beastly displays, he does a solid enough job. CMs at this age don't tend to have this same level of consistency. He might never be the superstar but he has a good football head on him.
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There is no blatant disregard. People might take him more seriously after that display in a much more competitive game (comparing to portuguese league) but it's perfectly normal to have some skepticism with half a season of professional football. Mind you, that was probably his best performance in a big game. Against Porto and Sporting he was very average (specially against us where the Benfica midfield was completely run over by our midfield and we just lost because of extremely bad finishing). But i never said that he doesn't have big potencial. I just thinking the overhyping is a bit ridiculous and it happens all the time with Benfica players (i.e Gonçalo Guedes). He might be worth the fee mentioned in the rumours in the future but for now i'd wait to see how he evolves before paying ridiculous ammounts of money. Of course it's risky because other clubs might choose to take a gamble but that's my opinion.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's usually the other way round with him. Despite all the hype everyone here thinks he's average.
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I'll pass judgement on him, barely saw football this year. Must have seen him three or four times only and was positively impressed.
 
He's also not arguably Benfica's best player that season, as someone said on the previous page. There is no debate that that distinction goes to Jonas by the clearest of margins.
 
Stack said:
Seriously?. I dont see that at all. I see an awful lot of losing the ball and missing tackles, the success rate in that is low. A couple of nice passes but the majority of the video is showing failures.
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Harsh. He's outnumbered against a Guardiola midfield, playing for a team that were prepared to soak and counter. He's a bit overconfident in his dribbling ability and his touch wasn't always helpful but most of the time he protected and distributed the ball well enough. The tackling part I agree with, and expected a little more since he was probably the fastest central midfielder on the field.
 
Adam-Utd said:
He's playing against 1 of the best midfield's in the world, do you really expect him to win every tackle and not lose the ball once :lol: you're hilarious. OK we get you don't like him that's fine, but it was a pretty good performance for an 18 year old kid in the biggest game of his career so far.
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Let me break down each involvement in that video for you. BTW the trouble with these videos is that we may not see every touch and we also dont see the off ball work. However with respect to whats in the video overall it was poor. I dont know why you cant see it but rose tinted glasses maybe? Feel free to go through the video at the points I bring up and disagree. Its quite simple, an involvement is either a success or a fail.

30 sec, lovely touch, plays simple and effective ball forward to team mate. video then repeats it.
35 sec, lovely feint, drives past a defender then plays a perfectly weighted through ball to an attacker who then knocks it on to a team mate who comes in offside. If the team mate hadnt been offside it might have been a great goal from a wonderful pass.
42 sec sticks a foot out at the ball and misses. Not sure why its even in the video.
44 sec chests the ball, loses control and loses possession
49 sec overhit cross pitch pass which goes out of play
58 sec receives ball, spins round, protects ball and plays a pass backwards.
1 min 2 sec plays simple ball forward to team mate
1 min 10 sec competes for spilt ball and loses out to bayern player.
1 min 18sec receives ball on turn, drives forward, the ball gets too far ahead of him and he loses possession
1 min 23 sec receives ball, sheilds it and then plays sideways pass.
1 min 36 receives ball and plays it straight back to team mate
1 min 41 competes for ball but cant win it and Bayern player completes his pass.
1 min 48 recieves ball heads forward, spins out of pressure and plays sideways pass
2 min 7 wins ball and then plays forward to team mate
2 min 16 gets fouled lands on ball on his stomach, for some reason the video replays this for 30 seconds.
2 min 58 sec recieves ball, cant control it and Bayern player nicks the ball off him
3 min turns with ball and Bayern player nicks the ball off him.
3 min 05 sec lovely chip into the box
3 min 12 sec challenges Bayern player for ball but Bayern player able to hold off challenge and get pass away.
3 min 16 forward pass to team mate
3 min 28 receives ball but under pressure loses possession
3 min 39 wins ball and is then fouled trying to break free, tries to take a quick free kick.

And thats it.

I was simply arguing that he didnt look that great to me in that particular video. I cant understand why anyone would think he looked that great in it.
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
Harsh. He's outnumbered against a Guardiola midfield, playing for a team that were prepared to soak and counter. He's a bit overconfident in his dribbling ability and his touch wasn't always helpful but most of the time he protected and distributed the ball well enough. The tackling part I agree with, and expected a little more since he was probably the fastest central midfielder on the field.
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Is it harsh considering some in here think he is exactly what we need?
We need players who wont make that many mistakes in games like that, half of those errors were his own making
 
He did a good collective job like the rest of the players, but individually he was nothing special. He lost some balls after a bad control, or by throwing the ball too long when he was driving it, and this is really dangerous when it happens in a critical zone like midfield. He needs to polish his touch because he provokes dangerous situations, and it didn't happen only against Bayern but against humble teams as well.

If I have to take something from the match it's the raw materials. The kid is tough, aggressive and he looks like a bull. He never gets tired of pressing, and it must be really uncomfortable to play against him, especially if you compare him with our current soft guys. He needs to learn the game and improve his first touch, and I'm sure he's not going to be the main man in midfield in the future, in any case, but mainly a defensive/supporting force. But under the right guidance he's going to become an intimidating player and very useful to complement the ones who canalize the game.

That said, I doubt he's the only one with these powers around the world, and normally you don't go crazy spending on a physical player to perform a defensive role. You can find good physical players at moderate prices if you search well, so I hope the club has some other alternatives if Benfica asks for too much. It will depend also on who's the next manager and what he wants to build, of course. But regardless of the manager it would be interesting to add someone who can inject some energy and muscle to our apathetic midfield, to have that resource in the squad at least.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
That is, not a top prospect.
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Sorry I don't understand.

Among the top prospects (and he looks to be one) he is average, for that reason I don't understand the hype or the price tag. Well I understand the hype and the price tag, since it's Benfica's modus operandi, they do that for pretty much all their in form players.
 
JPRouve said:
Sorry I don't understand.

Among the top prospects (and he looks to be one) he is average, for that reason I don't understand the hype or the price tag. Well I understand the hype and the price tag, since it's Benfica's modus operandi, they do that for pretty much all their in form players.
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If he looks to be a top prospects, then he can't be average.
 
JPRouve said:
Sorry I don't understand.

Among the top prospects (and he looks to be one) he is average, for that reason I don't understand the hype or the price tag. Well I understand the hype and the price tag, since it's Benfica's modus operandi, they do that for pretty much all their in form players.
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Either he's a top prospect or he's not. How can he be an average top prospect? A top prospect is inherently super-talented. I didn't know there were average, great and poor tiers among great players/prospects.

Is it like Lampard being an "average" (i.e little limited on the ball) top player? I don't quite get it.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Either he's a top prospect or he's not. How can he be an average top prospect? Is it like Lampard being an "average" (i.e little limited on the ball) top player? I don't quite get it.
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Well it's quite simple, you create a group of top prospect and you compare them.
 
Can't shake the feeling that if the links are real that we're going after the wrong young Portuguese midfielder. Sanches has potential but as has been mentioned numerous times on here already, is no where near worth the fee.

If we're going after a young midfielder I'd really much rather go for Neves. I'm aware the past few weeks haven't been great for him but I rate him highly nonetheless. That being said it's well known that we have scouts at every Sporting, Porto and Benfica match so if we pursue Sanches then I'd like to think our scouts have got the credentials to rightfully push for him over Neves.
 
JPRouve said:
Well it's quite simple, you create a group of top prospect and you compare them.
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So Sanches is a top prospect, but not a potential Balon Dor winner? I'll take that. Deli Ali isn't going to reach elite levels either and we'd all love him in our team.
 
Wouldn't mind him joining United. He's making it in a top European competition and receiving positive reviews from early age level and no matter who's gonna be our manager, he would probably fit in more than one aspect to this league. Could even risk and say he may be more compatible with Mou's view on game and obviously culture aspect than Mr "All about younsters Van Gaal".

Rashford, Januzaj, Mensah, Pereira, possibly even Varela with Jackson are decent future core but still under construction phase and Sanches would easily walk into that group and provide needed physical impact not worse than Mensah provided not long ago.

If we're after Pogba or other talented & dynamic midfielder then I rest my case but so far I like what I see. 2nd CL leg should reveal more about his resistance to big match pressure.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
So Sanches is a top prospect, but not a potential Balon Dor winner? I'll take that. Deli Ali isn't going to reach elite levels either and we'd all love him in our team.
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Well, today he is a top prospect but with onyl 6 months of football it's hard to estimate how good he can be. One thing is sure though, in world where Vidal, thiago, Kroos, or Strootman go for less than 35m, Sanches isn't near that price tag.
 
Van Piorsing said:
Wouldn't mind him joining United. He's making it in a top European competition and receiving positive reviews from early age level and no matter who's gonna be our manager, he would probably fit in more than one aspect to this league. Could even risk and say he may be more compatible with Mou's view on game and obviously culture aspect than Mr "All about younsters Van Gaal".

Rashford, Januzaj, Mensah, Pereira, possibly even Varela with Jackson are decent future core but still under construction phase and Sanches would easily walk into that group and provide needed physical impact not worse than Mensah provided not long ago.

If we're after Pogba or other talented & dynamic midfielder then I rest my case but so far I like what I see. 2nd CL leg should reveal more about his resistance to big match pressure.
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If there is an actual plan to build a team for the future with those players and add the likes of Sanchez and a couple of others then I am in. Trouble is thats a long term approach and I dont know how many of our fan base would be patient enough for that
 
JPRouve said:
Well, today he is a top prospect but with onyl 6 months of football it's hard to estimate how good he can be. One thing is sure though, in world where Vidal, thiago, Kroos, or Strootman go for less than 35m, Sanches isn't near that price tag.
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Hopefully our scouts scout him enough to be able to decide.

The fee does sound absurd but that seems to be how we roll these days. I do wish we were a bit more clever in the market but I'm not holding my breath. At the same time, the future superstars are the ones I genuinely am less bothered with us over-spending on. Of course, the pressure is on to get it right so if we do spend the money on this kid, hopefully he really is a huge talent.
 
Stack said:
If there is an actual plan to build a team for the future with those players and add the likes of Sanchez and a couple of others then I am in. Trouble is thats a long term approach and I dont know how many of our fan base would be patient enough for that
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Indeed but even playing such young lad like Sanches instead of Fellaini in midfield could already count as a short term plan of instant upgrade with loads of room for further improvement.

Knowing Mou he'll be hunting even bigger and more established players through Berta and his connections in La Liga but he could definitely make first positive impressions by signing a young talent from time to time.
 
spenzo said:
Can't shake the feeling that if the links are real that we're going after the wrong young Portuguese midfielder. Sanches has potential but as has been mentioned numerous times on here already, is no where near worth the fee.

If we're going after a young midfielder I'd really much rather go for Neves. I'm aware the past few weeks haven't been great for him but I rate him highly nonetheless. That being said it's well known that we have scouts at every Sporting, Porto and Benfica match so if we pursue Sanches then I'd like to think our scouts have got the credentials to rightfully push for him over Neves.
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Sanches has out performed Neves this season. Neves doesn't even start regularly for Porto according to whoscored.com
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Hopefully our scouts scout him enough to be able to decide.

The fee does sound absurd but that seems to be how we roll these days. I do wish we were a bit more clever in the market but I'm not holding my breath. At the same time, the future superstars are the ones I genuinely am less bothered with us over-spending on. Of course, the pressure is on to get it right so if we do spend the money on this kid, hopefully he really is a huge talent.
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Unless our scouts are old gypsy ladies, they can't know if he is a future superstar, not after 6 months of football. And since we are talking about a CM 40m-50m is the type of money that you pay for a superstar, not a future superstar.
 
JPRouve said:
Unless our scouts are old gypsy ladies, they can't know if he is a future superstar, not after 6 months of football. And since we are talking about a CM 40m-50m is the type of money that you pay for a superstar, not a future superstar.
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Martial says hi.

I'm not actually disputing that the fee is silly. It obviously is. But if we get it right and he proves to be that talented, it wont matter.

And to be fair, I've seen Coman for 6 months and he looks a future superstar.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Martial says hi.

I'm not actually disputing that the fee is silly. It obviously is. But if we get it right and he proves to be that talented, it wont matter.

And to be fair, I've seen Coman for 6 months and he looks a future superstar.
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Since when Martial is a CM? We overpaid for Martial but he had 3 seasons at professional level and improved every year. The closest comparison would be Kondogbia who had 5 seasons behind him 1 with Lens, 2 with Sevilla and 2 with Monaco, he joined Inter for 35m€ which is a lot.
 
JPRouve said:
Well, today he is a top prospect but with onyl 6 months of football it's hard to estimate how good he can be. One thing is sure though, in world where Vidal, thiago, Kroos, or Strootman go for less than 35m, Sanches isn't near that price tag.
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Thiago had a clause in his deal which was activated when he didn't play enough games, Kroos had 1 year left on his contract and Strootman was well before the new TV money was in play which has changed the prices considerably.

He doesn't look to be a world beater in that video but there's very few players who would at age 18. Scholes didn't make his debut until he was 20, Kroos was out on loan and Vidal was still playing in Chile, a bit of perspective is needed.
 
goin4glory said:
Thiago had a clause in his deal which was activated when he didn't play enough games, Kroos had 1 year left on his contract and Strootman was well before the new TV money was in play which has changed the prices considerably.
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And Sanches has 6 months of football, the TV money in England has changed nothing outside of it.
 
KM said:
Sanches has out performed Neves this season. Neves doesn't even start regularly for Porto according to whoscored.com
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Neves is a great example of how tagging 18 year-olds with multi-million price tags after a few month of professional football is precipitous. Neves looked good last season at a time when Porto looked good, he averaged out as the team averaged out, and he's been dire this season as we've been dire. What he'll be worth when he completely matures as a player is pure guess-work. I won't be surprised if he becomes a superb midfielder, and I won't be surprised if he has a completely uneventful and average career in 2nd tier clubs.
 
JPRouve said:
And Sanches has 6 months of football, the TV money in England has changed nothing outside of it.
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How has is changed nothing? You think foreign clubs aren't aware of how much money the English teams have available to them? The new TV money English clubs have is changing plenty.
 
goin4glory said:
How has is changed nothing? You think foreign clubs aren't aware of how much money the English teams have available to them? The new TV money English clubs have is changing plenty.
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It changes nothing because, there is an economy outside of England, clubs can't hold on to players just because an english club might come one day. The only difference is that English clubs will have to pay a special fee.
 
JPRouve said:
It changes nothing because, there is an economy outside of England, clubs can't hold on to players just because an english club might come one day. The only difference is that English clubs will have to pay a special fee.
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Isn't that the point, given Sanches is linked to an English club.....
 
Sly said:
Didn't Coman play for Juventus last season?
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I've seen him only this season and he looks a top class talent.

JPRouve said:
Since when Martial is a CM? We overpaid for Martial but he had 3 seasons at professional level and improved every year. The closest comparison would be Kondogbia who had 5 seasons behind him 1 with Lens, 2 with Sevilla and 2 with Monaco, he joined Inter for 35m€ which is a lot.
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Sorry, I missed that bit. Also, who are these superstar CM's who are available? If Gunogan picks Pep/City, we're not left with many superstar CMs. Which is probably why we're looking at the "next superstar" CMs. And of course the fee of 40-50 would be bonkers but A) the press has a tendancy of overstate these fees and B) if he's the next Vertatti/Essien (minus injuries hopefully), noone will care. That was my point where I related it to Martial. We spent a lot on Martial but I actually wouldn't care if it was 10 million more. The guy is an absolute gem.
 
Cassidy said:
Isn't that the point, given Sanches is linked to an English club.....
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No with Sanches there is no point, the press know nothing and are pointing to his clause, if I'm honest I moan but he could well go for far less.
 
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