I agree with all of that. Bold part is something some people really fail to take into account. It's the difference between real life and video games.
Renato Sanches
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Let me pretend to be an expert, if our scouts think that 5 months of pro football are enough to justify that price, they need firing. They have 5 months of pro football and several years of youth football on him, he is like CBJ and no one will come and offer 40m for him, he was good at youth level and he isn't out of place in the PL but he isn't a confirmed PL player, he could disappear tomorrow.
It seems easily ignored that a club outside England paid £5m for a 16 year old Martial and if I'm not mistaken, Chelsea and PSG were very keen on him too before we brought him in. Like you said, Martial was not an unknown, he was quite known in the youth circles.
Apologise, didn't actually watch the video. That's quite confusing having 2 young players with odd names haha
Nice play leading to the penalty for Benfica's second.
Benfica are 3-0 up at half time and Sanches was involved in the first two goals, first one he assisted the assister and then he won them the penalty for the second.
Generally he's been very good made one sloppy pass but besides that he's been one of the best players on the pitch.
Generally he's been very good made one sloppy pass but besides that he's been one of the best players on the pitch.
Good to hear, splash the cash 
Benfica won the game with 5-1 in the end and Sanches played the full 90 minutes. He wasn't as influential in the second half as in the first but still a solid half from him with no mistakes, he kept it simple for the most parts just like you would expect from a CM when seeing out a game.
Benfica play Bayern on Tuesday in the CL so it will be interesting to see how he copes with a team of Bayern's quality.
Benfica play Bayern on Tuesday in the CL so it will be interesting to see how he copes with a team of Bayern's quality.
Hmm, that will be a great game to scout him in.
Completely agree. What's most impressive about him is that he developed physically at a very young age, so he can stick out even at a high level, despite his age. It's part of the reason Lukaku was rated so highly at such a young age. Put him in the premier league, and he'll have to show his actual talent a lot more, and in that, I'm not sure if he's actually anything special. Touch, passing, awareness, passing range, shooting from range, defensive ability, etc... Nothing to do with his physical aspects. Hopefully he does become a top player as it looks like we are signing him, and he will definitely improve our physicality in midfield, so that's a bonus, but there is no way in hell that he's worth 60m currently like Martial was (who was very obviously incredibly talented on the ball). That stuff doesn't improve, but you can always bulk up, so that's why I personally rate youngsters more on their ability on the ball and intelligence, rather then any player who stands out because of physicality.
The game was over at half time but he had a good first half, involved in 2 of the goals and created another decent chance with a good cross from the right. His general play was solid as well, passed it and moved neatly.
This is my issue with him.I do think he has some raw technical attributes that can make him a good player as well but I'm not sure if it's enough to make him a 60 mil player worth at any point of his career let alone an 18 years old.
Yeah... Like I'm not saying he is a bad player, but he just doesn't seem anything more then average on a technical point. If anything, he seems like Ramires was for Chelsea, but bigger and more physically imposing. He's not a playmaker or someone who will dictate tempo of games like Verratti or Gundogan which is more along the lines of what we need.
Apparantly following Manutd on instagram? I dont have insta, can anyone confirm?
Ramires is actually 4 cm taller than Sanches and they are about the same weight.
Some people are going on like he's some sort of Fellaini type player who only depends on his physique when in fact the guy is 176 cm tall and his main weakness is probably his aerial play.
I don't know about this kid but there are so many things that can make a midfielder a quality one. Of course everyone wants a Modric, Verratti or Gundogan, but players with speed, strength, tenacity and well roundedness as their core strengths can also become top players. I'd also argue that we need a midfield capable of carrying the ball forward, which from the few clips I've seen, he likes to do.
Having said that, Gundogan is the one that is absolutely ideal for us. He's a playmaker, he can run with the ball, hes basically got the lot.
I think some people here have watched one or two bad games or videos and rushed to conclusions. One would think he's a 190cm 85kg brickhouse the way some people in this thread are going on. He's just 1.73m. the kid is very good at protecting the ball. The comparisons with Ramires are very silly imo. He's shown far more technique to his game than Ramires Ramires is a workhorse. If you've bothered to watch Renato you would notice he's been playing a very deep and reserved role for over two months now. He's been relying on his passing and playmaking form deep areas and even in that role he still looks on of Benficas' best players. This idea that he's just running about with the ball is false.
Apart from a couple of games I've seen , he's generally kept the ball well, showed good composure(been very impressed with this) and shown a coule of moments of magic.
In any case, we've been watching hi for a long time, and I would trust our people to make an informed decision whether he's worth it or not.
Apart from a couple of games I've seen , he's generally kept the ball well, showed good composure(been very impressed with this) and shown a coule of moments of magic.
In any case, we've been watching hi for a long time, and I would trust our people to make an informed decision whether he's worth it or not.
I think the majority of people worrying in this threat have not ACTUALLY watched him, just seen highlight videos of him bombing around the pitch. He's actually very positionally intelligent and presses well. I really don't understand why people are expecting him to be pirlo at 18 years old either. How many of them are solid passers like that at 18?.
Anyway his style of play suits shorter passes and quicker pass and movement, rather than smashing it 30 yards.
Anyway his style of play suits shorter passes and quicker pass and movement, rather than smashing it 30 yards.
How many of them are sold +40m after 5 months? No one will complain if we buy im for 15m-20m it will be a lot of money but it's acceptable, if we spend 40m we are taking a very bad bet.
Come on now, you know the market is not the same as it was when we bought Ronaldo. If we want big talents from clubs who don't need to sell, we have to pay big money. And all these figures are guesses at this point anyway. I'd happily splash 40m on him as he's got that much ability IMO. Then again, it's not my money so same as with Martial, if we believe he can deal with the pressure of a big fee I don't much care what we pay.
Not saying it will go the same way but we took a similar bet with Martial and there were a lot of doubts about that. The word is we have been watching him for the past 2 years. You just have to hope the club know what they're doing.
I'm always amazed by that statement, it's a statement that ignores the continent altogether, players don't go for that price on the continent, 40m players are top players.
I already said leave Martial out of it, by the way concerning Martial, Monaco projected a lower price and they accepted United first offer, they only discussed about how they will be paid, United overpaid for Martial.
Yes they do. Look at what Barca or Madrid have to pay to sign half decent players like James, Turan. Look at Monaco and Zenit when they bought half of Portugal...
I don't really care about the money to be honest. If we went big for Neymar it would have worked out, but we were scared off by the transfer fee back then. What good did selling ronaldo for 80m get us? Sod all on the pitch.
We've got money to burn, yes ideally we would like him for 15m max but it won't happen. Aslong as we structure the deal well like we did with martial, that's fine with me.
If we want to sign the biggest talents we will need to pay accordingly, sure there is always a big gamble when signing young players for top dollars but if we wants to get back to the top that is what we need to do. Players like Neymar and Muller are not available to us at the moment so instead we have to try and get the Neymars and Mullers of tomorrow and those talents don't come cheap.
Martial is a reasonable comparison. A young player the club is willing to massively overpay for. If the club feels it will be worth it in the long run, we just have to hope they're right. That's all I'm saying. @JPRouve
From what I understand, United have recently stationed scouts in the Portuguese leagues and are "on the look out for talents" and not exactly keeping an eye on one specific player. Ronaldo, Nani and Anderson were brought without a "long watch" per say. The Benfica and Jorge Mendez in typical fashion hounds out his clients as soon as they break into the first team taking advantage of the news of United scouts in the area. There is a good reason why A LOT of Benfica players have been linked with United more than others from Oblak, Enzo, Gaitan, Talisca, Guedes and Sanches, all for ridiculous sums.
I have no doubt that United have watched him but I highly doubt Sanches is a key target. United have brought in Herrera, Schneiderlin, Schweinstiger and Blind in the last 2 years and I highly doubt United would be paying "world class attacker" money for a CM with little experience. £60m~ for a CM (of all positions) with only 5 months experience is not just risky but dumb.
Martial, who has been used as a comparison was not first, second or third choice but he has been on the list since breaking into the first team as a 16 year old. He was a panic buy thankfully a worthy one. Other clubs were interested in him, most with a serious desire to acquire him a year or two later. United had to act fast and did not mind over paying to keep the United brand name looking strong in the transfer market especially after we missed out on other targets. The Martial transfer was easier for LVG to sign off. He has a loving for players that have played under certain managers like Jardim, Bielsa, Poch - high pressing managers.
I am on the side that Sanches isn't worth the hype anyway but I would not even take the transfer rumours that seriously, especially for the ridiculous price tag. For that money we can easily snap up Dele Alli, Weigl and dare I say Pogba with a few add ons.
Obviously he can still become a quality player, but we have enough of the hard working midfielders who are average on the ball. Herrera, schneiderlin, even schweinsteiger.... none of them are really great or creative on the ball, they are more players who add energy to our midfield.
Also besides, yes players can develop and change to an extent, but a players' individual play style is basically what it is and that wont change too much. If a player is an energetic midfielder who will get stuck in and drive forward with the ball, he is never going to be the play maker type, which is definitely what we lack in midfield. Someone who can pass the ball around properly. Thats why when carrick has a good game, everyone goes on about how much we miss him. He is the only one capable of hitting good passes around the pitch basically. Sanches, from admittedly the very limited time i have seen of him, is not a play maker type who has excellent passing range or a tight touch where he can dictate tempo through the middle and spray passes around and open the game up. Thiago, gundogan, pjanic, verratti, modric, rakitic... those are the type of players we need. Not another hard working player who is average on the ball. Especially not 60mil for an 18 year old. The price isnt even what bothers me that much, but spending that much on a player who doesnt fit the style we need is certainly a factor.
The type of midfielder is a lot less important than the quality. We never directly replaced Roy Keane but there weren't too many complaints once Carrick started proving himself as a quality midfielder. Arguably we'd be going a little back the other way with Sanches but then there's plenty of evidence he's got talent with the ball at his feet and, at 18, he should only improve.
The match videos that I have seen him in he looks nothing more than a more mobile version of Obi Mikel. Very underwhelming.
Schweinsteiger and Herrera are average on the ball? Just because they're not Luka Modric the best midfielder in the world, doesn't mean they're average. Typical hyperbole. They're both good players. When a team is struggling like we are especially facing systemic issues, everyone looks poorer.
Also if you're expecting midfielders like Gundogan you're most likely going to be disappointed. It would be brilliant and isn't impossible, but there are only a few of that level and most are taken.
Its definitely really important if you want to have a good balance in the squad. Schneiderlin, herrera and schweinsteiger are all good players, but they are all basically box to box players who are energetic and get stuck in. Herrera more attack munded, schneiderlin more defensive minded, but all of them do similar roles on the pitch. You dont just buy a lot of good players and put them together, you need to have them suit each other on the pitch, and playing Sanches next to herrera or schneiderlin would be relatively pointless because of their roles on the pitch.
Guess it depends what you want. If you're expecting the next iniesta then you will be disappointed, but he's a player who will help us control and dominate the game, and will create space better for our other attackers. He's also got a great shot so people won't be able to sit off him like they can fellaini or Carrick.
Im not saying they are average at all, of course they are very good players, but they arent very creative with their passing or the nimble types who will control games and play good quick passes advancing the game. Carrick is the only one who does that for us and plays in that fashion.
Also there are plenty of these types of players around. We just need to go for them. Gundogan, pjanic, Xhaka, verratti, Thiago, Kimmich who bayern bought last season, and plenty others. Some arent realistic, some are at the perfect level where we would be able to bring them in.
You mention keane, but we had scholes then as well. Now we have neither, but you would have to say all our midfielders are more Keane types then scholes. We always had a decent mix of types of midfielders under fergie, we just dont have that now and sanches is adding to that. It is similar to when we lacked pace in the attacking positions and already had Kagawa, and we went on to buy Mata. Just a big money signing for a player we already have very similar quality and type in the club.
I don't think any of our players are "Keane types". Maybe Schweinsteiger used to be but he was always more attack minded. Can you imagine Keane ever having played on the wing? The mentality and drive is something almost impossible to replace and Schweini has arguably been our best attempt.
Most players these days though are taught to admire the midfielders who spray the ball around. Keane was all about nipping in to win the ball and then moving it on (forward where possible) quickly and precisely. Sanches is already surprisingly good at that for such a young kid as I think jb mentioned previously. That's not to say he's a "Keane type", he's very different but for me he would definitely add things we lack and has the potential to get much better.
Isn't that what we bought Schneiderlin to do and kind of what Herrera does (just further up the pitch)? I'm not talking about their leadership qualities, just what they do with and without the ball, their movement and way they pick up space to get on the ball and what they do once they have it. Schneiderlin, herrera and schweinsteiger are all more players who nip in and are meant to win the ball back and then play it forward quickly (or should do if not for the play style we currently use). Having a midfield of schneiderlin next to Sanches would have woefully little creativity or passing qualities, be it llaying neat passes through the middle into the forwards or spraying longer passes to the wingers or picking out a run. They both basically play in the same way, with a few different qualities. So why spend another 5p-60m on an 18 year old who basically offers what Schneiderlin does? Unless we plan on getting rid of schweinsteiger and schneiderlin and want to do a big rebuild of the midfield, it just seems pointless. We would have 4 players who are more used for their energy and are box to box players in midfield, with a 35 year old carrick as the only one with good passing range and who passes it forward into the attackers first time or can pick out runs.
Its not about the level of player, he can be a prime Vidal or something for all I care right now, its just not the type of player we need in the middle currently as we have good players their who have similar play styles, just not playing to their potential.
Schneiderlin is decent but he's not exactly world class. I genuinely believe Sanches would be as good already and he's 18! Plus he offers plenty that Schneiderlin doesn't (and vice versa of course for some stuff!). What was it Fergie used to say about youth - give young people a chance and they often surprise you.
I think if some of the people actually watched a couple of games with the lad they'd be positively surprised.
There is that, and like I said, if we plan on writing off schneiderlin as a starting option or selling him (personally think he could do very well for Mourinho as the defensive mid), then sure. Sanches and him wouldn't be able to play alongside each other though, it would be way too defensive and energy/physicality based as opposed to having on the ball quality in midfield. So we would still need someone to partner Sanches. If we plan on buying 2 midfielders then I'm all for it really, but just Sanches wouldn't really improve us for the near future I would guess.
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