Renato Sanches

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MyOnlySolskjaer said:
How was he for Portugal yesterday?
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Quite underwhelming. His touch was very heavy and he looked quite clumsy with the ball. Moves like a headless chicken, as well. He didn't do anything positive, really.

He was definitely nervous and under pressure. The crowd, which was quiet all evening, erupted when he came on and cheered each time he had the ball. Eventually they calmed down, as he kept losing it.
 
FFS does anyone remember how average players like Schweinsteiger or Fletcher looked at the same age? Kid is fantastic.
 
I can't believe people are considering him to be average, he is one of the biggest talents in football if you ask me.
The guy is 18 and is one of the best players in a team about to play in the CL quarterfinals.

To compare him to some other talents and what they had achieved at the same age:

Verratti: had played a hand full of Serie B games.
Pogba: had started 0 senior matches.
Alli: had a fair bit of League 1 apps but hadn't played any matches at the same level that Sanches has been playing.
Barkley: had 2 PL starts
Weigl: had only played senior matches in the German Regionalliga, it's the 4th tier.
Koke: 9 starts in La Liga.
Oliver Torres: 0 starts for Atletico.
Saul: 0 starts for Atletico.
 
TwoSheds said:
FFS does anyone remember how average players like Schweinsteiger or Fletcher looked at the same age? Kid is fantastic.
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If this was directed at my comment - no, I don't remember. And he wasn't at all fantastic yesterday. Perhaps he has been, in other games. It was the first time I ever watched him.
 
I hope if this is true we also have a more proven CM lined up as well, right now Sanches wouldn't offer us much and the price is stupid for how raw he is, it's nothing like Martial whose game already had a refinement to it.
 
Why is every player we're linked with deemed not good enough on here?
 
Devil may care said:
I hope if this is true we also have a more proven CM lined up as well, right now Sanches wouldn't offer us much and the price is stupid for how raw he is, it's nothing like Martial whose game already had a refinement to it.
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Most of us hadn't heard of Martial like most of us haven't heard of Sanches. Look how martial turned out. I heard Martial was not as good for Monaco as he has been for us too.

I would like to see us sign this guy, only for his hair and that tackle because thats all I can go off of at the moment :lol:
 
Sigma said:
Most of us hadn't heard of Martial like most of us haven't heard of Sanches. Look how martial turned out. I heard Martial was not as good for Monaco as he has been for us too.
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Check his thread though, there were plenty of posters like me who watch more than just the PL that said he had tremendous potential, he had a class and quality to his game even in that Monaco side, here we are looking at a player who is essentially a raw version of Kante and not as good on the ball.
 
Devil may care said:
I hope if this is true we also have a more proven CM lined up as well, right now Sanches wouldn't offer us much and the price is stupid for how raw he is, it's nothing like Martial whose game already had a refinement to it.
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Yes we need someone else to replace Carrick this summer. As I see it Sanches is the perfect Shweinsteiger replacement, Bastian still has maybe 2 seasons left in him during this time Sanches can be progressively phased into the team and after 2 years time he will be ready to take over full time from him.
 
cyberman said:
Why is every player we're linked with deemed not good enough on here?
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Mostly it's down to the general feeling being that we need someone who improves us massively right here and now.
I doubt anyone would write him off as a potential-less signing that can't become fantastic for us, or that he can't do a job even at this age - but he likely can't do the job we would need of a new player right now to up our level considerably. (after Van Gaal gets moved on, as assassination doesn't seem to be his profession)
 
the hea said:
Yes we need someone else to replace Carrick this summer. As I see it Sanches is the perfect Shweinsteiger replacement, Bastian still has maybe 2 seasons left in him during this time Sanches can be progressively phased into the team and after 2 years time he will be ready to take over full time from him.
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Given Schweinsteiger's injuries and lack of general conditioning I'd be surprised to see him as much more than a bench option next season, but we definitely need to replace Carrick with a proper ball playing CM. Not sure I see much in Sanches in either role in truth.
 
the hea said:
I can't believe people are considering him to be average, he is one of the biggest talents in football if you ask me.
The guy is 18 and is one of the best players in a team about to play in the CL quarterfinals.

To compare him to some other talents and what they had achieved at the same age:

Verratti: had played a hand full of Serie B games.
Pogba: had started 0 senior matches.
Alli: had a fair bit of League 1 apps but hadn't played any matches at the same level that Sanches has been playing.
Barkley: had 2 PL starts
Weigl: had only played senior matches in the German Regionalliga, it's the 4th tier.
Koke: 9 starts in La Liga.
Oliver Torres: 0 starts for Atletico.
Saul: 0 starts for Atletico.
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That's a rather disingenuous argument to be honest. It's hard to compare Sanches with someone like Óliver because the latter was underdeveloped in terms of physique - which Sanches isn't - he's like a grown man already, playing against other grown men. But the thing is, a lot of times the physical advantage that propels players ahead of their peers in the U-20 bracket doesn't extend in the long term because someone who had better technique will eventually catch up in the early 20s. Which is kind of the underlying point - players progress at different rates, and the development isn't always linear - which should be considered because with young players, you pay the fee not only in terms of what they are, but what they could develop into.

And with Sanches, you get the sense of someone who's quick out of the gates (compared with others in his age group), but there not be a lot of room for development once he reaches his early 20s (a bit like Rooney, infact - who flat-lined once his physical advantage was compensated for, despite speculation that he would be the best of his generation, and was versatile enough to play in midfield and whatnot). Which is why players like a Scholes or Iniesta took longer to progress than some of their more physically developed peers (sure one could back that up with an appearance statistic), but it extended well into their mid to late 20s - making them better players over the long haul.

As to the Sanches replacing Carrick or being the 'perfect' heir to Fußballgott, I don't quite see it to be honest. Even when Schweinsteiger was playing wide in his younger days, you could kind of feel his innate ability to be a rhythmic passer - someone who could potentially control the tempo of a match. Sanches seems to be more of a hustle and bustle box-to-box player who is at his best carrying the ball forward (a bit like young Davids - a stylistic comparison of course, rather than qualitative one). An apples to oranges comparison to Carrick/ Schweinsteiger overall, and if I were to suggest a replacement out of Portugal - Rúben Neves would be a better fit given his expansive passing range, which is more aligned with our aged duo.
 
It's better not to follow the opinion of the Caf on young players. Most thought Memphis was the second coming of Christ and ridiculed our decision to sign Martial instead of Pedro. I've been fortunate to watch a decent amount of Benfica games since the turn of the year. The two games that stuck out were the Zenit matches. He utterly dominated the midfield in both games.
I find it difficult to beleive an 18 year old doing that is bang average.
 
Invictus said:
That's a rather disingenuous argument to be honest. It's hard to compare Sanches with someone like Óliver because the latter was underdeveloped in terms of physique - which Sanches isn't - he's like a grown man already, playing against other grown men. But the thing is, a lot of times the physical advantage that propels players ahead of their peers in the U-20 bracket doesn't extend in the long term because someone who had better technique will eventually catch up in the early 20s. Which is kind of the underlying point - players progress at different rates, and the development isn't always linear - which should be considered because with young players, you pay the fee not only in terms of what they are, but what they could develop into.

And with Sanches, you get the sense of someone who's quick out of the gates (compared with others in his age group), but there not be a lot of room for development once he reaches his early 20s (a bit like Rooney, infact - who flat-lined once his physical advantage was compensated for, despite speculation that he would be the best of his generation, and was versatile enough to play in midfield and whatnot). Which is why players like a Scholes or Iniesta took longer to progress than some of their more physically developed peers (sure one could back that up with an appearance statistic), but it extended well into their mid to late 20s - making them better players over the long haul.

As to the Sanches replacing Carrick or being the 'perfect' heir to Fußballgott, I don't quite see it to be honest. Even when Schweinsteiger was playing wide in his younger days, you could kind of feel his innate ability to be a rhythmic passer - someone who could potentially control the tempo of a match. Sanches seems to be more of a hustle and bustle box-to-box player who is at his best carrying the ball forward. An apples to oranges comparison, and if I were to suggest a Schweinsteiger/ Carrick replacement out of Portugal - Rúben Neves would be a better fit given his expansive passing range, which is more aligned with our aged duo.
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I know it's not completely fair to compare young players who are well developed physically to players who aren't but when I read this thread I get the feeling that people are writing him off only because of the fact that he's well built for his age.
If you watch some games with him you would notice that everything in his game is not about his physique. He usually sits pretty deep and dictates the play, I have seen people on here saying that he can only run forward with the ball which is pretty much the opposite of what he does, he usually drops deep to pick up the ball and plays it on with very few touches. This is what has been impressing me the most about him the fact that he knows when to release the ball quickly and knows when to hold on to it, despite his young age.
 
Adisa said:
It's better not to follow the opinion of the Caf on young players. Most thought Memphis was the second coming of Christ and ridiculed our decision to sign Martial instead of Pedro. I've been fortunate to watch a decent amount of Benfica games since the turn of the year. The two games that stuck out were the Zenit matches. He utterly dominated the midfield in both games.
I find it difficult to beleive an 18 year old doing that is bang average.
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These two games are what really convinced me that this guy could be something special, I can't remember seeing an 18 year old dominate a game that way and at that level before.
 
How to get the CAF hyped and drooling 101
  1. Get a few clips of an 18 year old
  2. Make his debut for an European team
  3. Comes from the Latin American side of the world
  4. Be a Jorge Mendez client.
I'm guessing that are calling him fantastic are basing it on clips. I've said it here before and will say it again. Benfica and Jorge Mendez are the one driving the hype. This is 4/5th young player that has gathered this much hype this season. I have recorded and watched at least 10 matches and boy is he underwhelming, yes, even for an 18 year old. He is physically developed but that's it. Energy alone gets you into some clubs these days but that doesn't mean that they are all that. If this guy is £60m, Dele Alli is £120m.

Educate yourselves and stop drooling over hype!
 
Invictus said:
That's a rather disingenuous argument to be honest. It's hard to compare Sanches with someone like Óliver because the latter was underdeveloped in terms of physique - which Sanches isn't - he's like a grown man already, playing against other grown men. But the thing is, a lot of times the physical advantage that propels players ahead of their peers in the U-20 bracket doesn't extend in the long term because someone who had better technique will eventually catch up in the early 20s. Which is kind of the underlying point - players progress at different rates, and the development isn't always linear - which should be considered because with young players, you pay the fee not only in terms of what they are, but what they could develop into.

And with Sanches, you get the sense of someone who's quick out of the gates (compared with others in his age group), but there not be a lot of room for development once he reaches his early 20s (a bit like Rooney, infact - who flat-lined once his physical advantage was compensated for, despite speculation that he would be the best of his generation, and was versatile enough to play in midfield and whatnot). Which is why players like a Scholes or Iniesta took longer to progress than some of their more physically developed peers (sure one could back that up with an appearance statistic), but it extended well into their mid to late 20s - making them better players over the long haul.

As to the Sanches replacing Carrick or being the 'perfect' heir to Fußballgott, I don't quite see it to be honest. Even when Schweinsteiger was playing wide in his younger days, you could kind of feel his innate ability to be a rhythmic passer - someone who could potentially control the tempo of a match. Sanches seems to be more of a hustle and bustle box-to-box player who is at his best carrying the ball forward (a bit like young Davids - a stylistic comparison of course, rather than qualitative one). An apples to oranges comparison to Carrick/ Schweinsteiger overall, and if I were to suggest a replacement out of Portugal - Rúben Neves would be a better fit given his expansive passing range, which is more aligned with our aged duo.
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Couldn't have put it any better. Those that have watched him properly only comment on his physicality but nothing on technique, tactical nous etc. I've seen more ability in Joe Rothwell than this fella. I seriously hope we avoid.
 
dichinero said:
How to get the CAF hyped and drooling 101
  1. Get a few clips of an 18 year old
  2. Make his debut for an European team
  3. Comes from the Latin American side of the world
  4. Be a Jorge Mendez client.
I'm guessing that are calling him fantastic are basing it on clips. I've said it here before and will say it again. Benfica and Jorge Mendez are the one driving the hype. This is 4/5th young player that has gathered this much hype this season. I have recorded and watched at least 10 matches and boy is he underwhelming, yes, even for an 18 year old. He is physically developed but that's it. Energy alone gets you into some clubs these days but that doesn't mean that they are all that. If this guy is £60m, Dele Alli is £120m.

Educate yourselves and stop drooling over hype!
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Well said. Shocking how gullible some on here are.
 
dichinero said:
How to get the CAF hyped and drooling 101
  1. Get a few clips of an 18 year old
  2. Make his debut for an European team
  3. Comes from the Latin American side of the world
  4. Be a Jorge Mendez client.
I'm guessing that are calling him fantastic are basing it on clips. I've said it here before and will say it again. Benfica and Jorge Mendez are the one driving the hype. This is 4/5th young player that has gathered this much hype this season. I have recorded and watched at least 10 matches and boy is he underwhelming, yes, even for an 18 year old. He is physically developed but that's it. Energy alone gets you into some clubs these days but that doesn't mean that they are all that. If this guy is £60m, Dele Alli is £120m.

Educate yourselves and stop drooling over hype!
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I'll never understand how we were seemingly not even in the hunt for Alli.
 
dichinero said:
How to get the CAF hyped and drooling 101
  1. Get a few clips of an 18 year old
  2. Make his debut for an European team
  3. Comes from the Latin American side of the world
  4. Be a Jorge Mendez client.
I'm guessing that are calling him fantastic are basing it on clips. I've said it here before and will say it again. Benfica and Jorge Mendez are the one driving the hype. This is 4/5th young player that has gathered this much hype this season. I have recorded and watched at least 10 matches and boy is he underwhelming, yes, even for an 18 year old. He is physically developed but that's it. Energy alone gets you into some clubs these days but that doesn't mean that they are all that. If this guy is £60m, Dele Alli is £120m.

Educate yourselves and stop drooling over hype!
Click to expand...
Could you, being the well educated man you are and all please name a few midfielders in the same age bracket that are far superior to Sanches. I mean since he is such a underwhelming player even for an 18 year old that can't really be to hard considering how well educated you are.

And by the way he is Portuguese, Portugal is in Europe not Latin America but I'm sure you knew this being the well educated guy you are.
 
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Oh and btw, I remember the reactions to the Martial deal. So let's see how this turns out if he signs(which looks likely, If i'm honest).
 
the hea said:
Could you, being the well educated man you are and all please name a few midfielders in the same age bracket that are far superior to Sanches. I mean since he is such a underwhelming player even for an 18 year old that can't really be to hard considering how well educated you are.

And by the way he is Portuguese, Portugal is in Europe not Latin America but I'm sure you knew this being the well educated guy you are.
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I know nothing about Renato Sanches outside of the fact that he is great in FM but I'm surprised that someone like Koziello isn't on the muppets radars.
 
If we sign him, we can expect big things. Our scouts are experts and dont take big risks.
 
the hea said:
Could you, being the well educated man you are and all please name a few midfielders in the same age bracket that are far superior to Sanches. I mean since he is such a underwhelming player even for an 18 year old that can't really be to hard considering how well educated you are.
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First of all, there is no need for the drama. You are not the CAF and there is no need for you to get all personal about it. So just chill out there buddy, it's a forum of opinions!

Off the top of my head,
Ruben Neves
Youri Tielemans
Lewis Cook
Will Hughes
Julian Weigl
Oliver Torres
R. Bazoer
Sergi Samper
Dele Alli
Paul Pogba
Jorritt Hendrix
Adrien Rabiot

I beleieve you have made mention of some of these players as I have listed above, referencing where they were stats wise at the same age. I am glad @Invictus answered well. I am not disputing that he will not be a good player but there is little evidence to support his hype. As a young player, it's not the level of the competition that you play in that really matters but the level of performance that you put in that matters. For example, Dele Alli may have played in the lower leagues but he was putting in performances way above the average league level. Tielemans started off at 16, in the Belgium league, but he put in performances that were just too good for a 21 year old.

All the players that I have mentioned put in performances at a much higher level than Sanchez currently does, despite being physically more underdeveloped than Sanchez. If Sanchez is as highly rated as you think, surely he should be playing at a higher level than these guys, regardless of what leagues they play.

Btw, the £60m being sounded about is his release clause, and that doesn't mean anything!
 
dichinero said:
First of all, there is no need for the drama. You are not the CAF and there is no need for you to get all personal about it. So just chill out there buddy, it's a forum of opinions!

Off the top of my head,
Ruben Neves
Youri Tielemans
Lewis Cook
Will Hughes
Julian Weigl
Oliver Torres
R. Bazoer
Sergi Samper
Dele Alli
Paul Pogba
Jorritt Hendrix
Adrien Rabiot

I beleieve you have made mention of some of these players as I have listed above, referencing where they were stats wise at the same age. I am glad @Invictus answered well. I am not disputing that he will not be a good player but there is little evidence to support his hype. As a young player, it's not the level of the competition that you play in that really matters but the level of performance that you put in that matters. For example, Dele Alli may have played in the lower leagues but he was putting in performances way above the average league level. Tielemans started off at 16, in the Belgium league, but he put in performances that were just too good for a 21 year old.

All the players that I have mentioned put in performances at a much higher level than Sanchez currently does, despite being physically more underdeveloped than Sanchez. If Sanchez is as highly rated as you think, surely he should be playing at a higher level than these guys, regardless of what leagues they play.

Btw, the £60m being sounded about is his release clause, and that doesn't mean anything!
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loved that :lol: so many long toes on the caf.
 
dichinero said:
First of all, there is no need for the drama. You are not the CAF and there is no need for you to get all personal about it. So just chill out there buddy, it's a forum of opinions!
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You were the one calling people stupid, for all I care you can call me stupid all day long but I don't think it's good behavior going around calling other people that and that made me react.

dichinero said:
Off the top of my head,
Ruben Neves
Youri Tielemans
Lewis Cook
Will Hughes
Julian Weigl
Oliver Torres
R. Bazoer
Sergi Samper
Dele Alli
Paul Pogba
Jorritt Hendrix
Adrien Rabiot
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Neves is a good talent also but he spends most of the time on the bench in an inferior team so I wouldn't call him better at best he is on par with Renato.
Tielemans has put in some good performances in a league that is not comparable to the Portuguese when it comes to quality. He is also very inconsistent.
Lewis Cook is playing in the Championship and Sanches in the Champions League need I say more.
Bazoer is one I don't know much about he could very well be a much better prospect than Sanches.
Alli is hands down the best midfield prospect in this age bracket and if he is available I'd be all for getting him instead of Sanches.

The rest are all 2 - 3 years older so not comparable.

I'm not saying he is certain to be a future world star but I do think that after Alli he is the biggest midfield talent i Europe in his age bracket. How he develops from here on is anyone's guess but I have rarely seen a midfielder this young dominate a game in the latter stages of the CL like he did against Zenit.
 
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Ruben Neves and Youri Tielemans can't even get into their sides atm.
If we sign Sanches or not then so be it but the rushing to judgment is ridiculous.
 
Adisa said:
Ruben Neves and Youri Tielemans can't even get into their sides atm.
If we sign Sanches or not then so be it but the rushing to judgment is ridiculous.
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I am aware that they are not playing much, especially Tielemans who IMO needs to move on to push himself. Neves was dropped for a loss of form but before that he was playing brilliantly, even as far as being handed the captaincy for a period in the side. My point was just the level of individual performances. Of course it's silly to write any young player off, I am just resonating with other posters that don't think his performances have warranted the hype.
 
the hea said:
You were the one calling people stupid, for all I care you can call me stupid all day long but I don't think it's good behavior going around calling other people that and that made me react.
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Bruh, you wanna quote me on that? You seem to just be looking for a cyber confrontation. I have not called anybody stupid, you just took my post out of context and made it personal. And I repeat just chill out!
 
I've never seen Sanches play, but reading this thread he sounds a lot like Wiliam Carvalho to me.

Does anyone know how is Carvalho doing this season, and how Sanches compares to him?
 

Watched a couple of these videos for him. Maybe they just happen to be the really average-poor games, but he looks dodgy.

He looks like one of those players who always makes the pitch look really bobbly and uneven. The ball always looks like it's escaping him. Which leads to him making most of his passes in a hurry and/or on the stretch.

Really loose touches, but can make up for it due to being athletic and quick. Which allows him to get to the ball first. He wouldn't be first to the ball nearly as often in a better league.

It appears that he he thinks he's a better passer than he actually is. His passing isn't very natural, so whilst better passers can do it accurately on autopilot, he just ends under/over-hitting half of his passes. He's not good enough to play as casually as he does.

Wouldn't expect much of this guy.
 
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dichinero said:
Bruh, you wanna quote me on that? You seem to just be looking for a cyber confrontation. I have not called anybody stupid, you just took my post out of context and made it personal. And I repeat just chill out!
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If you ask me this is the equal of calling the ones that don't agree with you stupid.
dichinero said:
Educate yourselves and stop drooling over hype!
Click to expand...
 
the hea said:
Neves is a good talent also but he spends most of the time on the bench in an inferior team so I wouldn't call him better at best he is on par with Renato.
Tielemans has put in some good performances in a league that is not comparable to the Portuguese when it comes to quality. He is also very inconsistent.
Lewis Cook is playing in the Championship and Sanches in the Champions League need I say more.
Bazoer is one I don't know much about he could very well be a much better prospect than Sanches.
Alli is hands down the best midfield prospect in this age bracket and if he is available I'd be all for getting him instead of Sanches.

The rest are all 2 - 3 years older so not comparable.

I'm not saying he is certain to be a future world star but I do think that after Alli he is the biggest midfield talent i Europe in his age bracket. How he develops from here on is anyone's guess but I have rarely seen a midfielder this young dominate a game in the latter stages of the CL like he did against Zenit.
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Before you put words in mouth.

I don't know how much of Neves you watched before his drop in form because before his drop in form, he was putting in some quality performances in Europe. And how you have concluded that Porto is all a sudden an inferior team to Benfica is beyond me.

Tielemans is playing in the Belgian league, so what? Did you take into account the level of performances he has been putting in over the last 3 years?

Lewis Cook is playing in the championship, is that the basis for your argument or have you actually watched him enough to make that judgement because Dele Alli like I have said was playing for MK Dons, need I say more?

You asked for players in the same age bracket but 2 years in not comparable? Have you taken into account the physical development of the player in question?

You have repeatedly based your argument on two games in the CL against Zenit (not sure whether stages make all the difference) I have based mine on over 10 games across the season to say that he is ok but not as special as you lay emphasis on.
 
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