Renato Sanches

[DarkXaero]

Because he's been incredible for the most supported team in Portugal this year.

Then why are there so many posters here who are are against the idea of signing him?

 

[bucky]

Make a new thread about him. He seems to be an interesting player.

Then why are there so many posters here who are are against the idea of signing him?

Can only speak for myself, but there are plenty of good or talented midfielders out there and I am simply convinced by some of them. I don't think there's anything wrong with having preferences and really wanting your favourites to join the club over players you've seen less of or don't see as talented.

 

[khoazany]

But he's standing put at senior level as well.

I don't know where I stand on the guy, I've seen matches where he has shown lots of promise and games where I wasn't sure if he was playing. Pretty much like any 18 year old.

Comparisons with Martial are interesting to me. Let's say we had a competitive attack and weren't reliant on Martial, he'd get less minutes and still impress but maybe not shine as brightly as he has due to less minutes.

I do not want to be in a position where we are as reliant on Sanches as we are on Martial so that means I want Sanches playing less minutes. However he's going to cost upwards of £30m. He'd get slated for not playing as often as a £30m player should. How does he deal with that criticism?

Put it this way, I failed to see in him attributes that can make him stand out at top flight football (and by top flight football I mean PL/La Liga/CL).There are many young CMs around that I saw more on them than him.

 

[Stack]

Then why are there so many posters here who are are against the idea of signing him?

He doesnt appear to be technically gifted. His first touch etc can be rough under pressure and at pace. Physically he is superb, fast strong and has a big engine. The problem is that as you move up the scale in terms of quality leagues the physical abilities are not enough to be a success for the big teams. Sort of like a fast strong 12 year old dominating his age group but later on not having the ball control to stay ahead when his lesser physically capable team mates have caught him up in the maturity stakes.
I dont think he is good enough for us but then at 18 it can be too early to pass those sorts of judgements. If our scouts deem him good enough then there will be something Im not seeing and they know more about this sort of thing than me.

 

[DarkXaero]

He doesnt appear to be technically gifted. His first touch etc can be rough under pressure and at pace. Physically he is superb, fast strong and has a big engine. The problem is that as you move up the scale in terms of quality leagues the physical abilities are not enough to be a success for the big teams. Sort of like a fast strong 12 year old dominating his age group but later on not having the ball control to stay ahead when his lesser physically capable team mates have caught him up in the maturity stakes.
I dont think he is good enough for us but then at 18 it can be too early to pass those sorts of judgements. If our scouts deem him good enough then there will be something Im not seeing and they know more about this sort of thing than me.

But he is still playing as a regular for the senior team at the age 18, and that's impressive. He's doing so for a top Portuguese league team, and that makes it even more impressive. So it isn't the case of him dominating youth teams because he's more physically developed, he's actually playing at senior level. And while I haven't seen much of him at all, the little I've seen shows that he's physically gifted even if he was 26 years old. That combination of physical frame, speed, and strength is rare in a central midfielder, let alone an 18 year old.

I agree that his technical ability doesn't seem up to par but like you said, it's too early to pass judgment on an 18 year old kid who just started playing at senior level. He'll get better technically as long as he has the work ethic and talent. If we're getting him, I have faith in our scouts that there is talent in him. I guess a lot of people are getting flashbacks of Anderson with this kid (same league, similar position, similar physical abilities, and dreadlocks)

 

[Adam-Utd]

Think people underestimate how much his hard work and ability to get around the field has improved benfica.

No he's maybe not got the playmaking ability yet to spot a 30 yard through ball, but he's the water carrier of that team and something which is vitally important.

The stats speak for themselves, before he got into the team benfica weren't doing great, but he's helped propel them to the top of the table.

Yes he's a bit rough in places but that'll be improved. He will suit the English game really well, and you've seen the improvement Kante made to Leicester, hopefully he'll have a similar impact with us. We've missed a driving force from midfield for ages - something only really Herrera has given us at present.

 

[the hea]

Think people underestimate how much his hard work and ability to get around the field has improved benfica.

No he's maybe not got the playmaking ability yet to spot a 30 yard through ball, but he's the water carrier of that team and something which is vitally important.

The stats speak for themselves, before he got into the team benfica weren't doing great, but he's helped propel them to the top of the table.

Yes he's a bit rough in places but that'll be improved. He will suit the English game really well, and you've seen the improvement Kante made to Leicester, hopefully he'll have a similar impact with us. We've missed a driving force from midfield for ages - something only really Herrera has given us at present.

Couldn't agree more.

Sanches made his first team debut on October 30th against Tondela, before that game they had played 12 games resulting in 7 wins and 5 defeats.
Since he made his debut they have played 29 games resulting in 24 wins, 2 draws and 3 defeats.

 

[Speak]

Think people underestimate how much his hard work and ability to get around the field has improved benfica.

No he's maybe not got the playmaking ability yet to spot a 30 yard through ball, but he's the water carrier of that team and something which is vitally important.

The stats speak for themselves, before he got into the team benfica weren't doing great, but he's helped propel them to the top of the table.

Yes he's a bit rough in places but that'll be improved. He will suit the English game really well, and you've seen the improvement Kante made to Leicester, hopefully he'll have a similar impact with us. We've missed a driving force from midfield for ages - something only really Herrera has given us at present.

You can generally see where a player's game is going (technically) by the age of 18. If he's showing loose touches, over-hit passes, Bolasie-style dribbling... chances are he's not going to become very polished. Go through any top player (midfielder, especially) and the hints of technical quality that they honed and become known for were always there.

I guess he has got energy and athleticism. That's great, but it doesn't justify huge hype.

 

[Stack]

In the modern game if a player doesnt have the level of technique, control and skill required to build upon by the age of 16 then there is very very little chance of catching up no matter how much work is done later. There is so much put in place in terms of muscle memory, bio mechanics, thought process that has to have become intuitive and instinctive by 16. The days when a player could catch up have long gone.

 

[JPRouve]

Think people underestimate how much his hard work and ability to get around the field has improved benfica.

No he's maybe not got the playmaking ability yet to spot a 30 yard through ball, but he's the water carrier of that team and something which is vitally important.

The stats speak for themselves, before he got into the team benfica weren't doing great, but he's helped propel them to the top of the table.

Yes he's a bit rough in places but that'll be improved. He will suit the English game really well, and you've seen the improvement Kante made to Leicester, hopefully he'll have a similar impact with us. We've missed a driving force from midfield for ages - something only really Herrera has given us at present.

People are just saying that he isn't a 40m player and that he probably never will, he looks like Khedira. The hype is comparable to the one William Carvalho experienced.

 

[TwoSheds]

In the modern game if a player doesnt have the level of technique, control and skill required to build upon by the age of 16 then there is very very little chance of catching up no matter how much work is done later. There is so much put in place in terms of muscle memory, bio mechanics, thought process that has to have become intuitive and instinctive by 16. The days when a player could catch up have long gone.

Scholesy, is that you?

 

[Speak]

Scholesy, is that you?

He's not wrong, though.
Name a top player. Any top player (midfield or forward) and their technical skills were in evidence as a youngster.

Did Robben dribble as well/consistently as he does today? No, but he ran rings round people in the Premier League as a youngster using the same style.
Did van Persie score as many volleys or goals from tight angles? Probably not (actually debatable), but he showed that ability from day one.

Scholes showed the skills, passing range, control, turning, shooting... from day one.
Giggs - nothing needs to be said. Xavi always had that control of the ball, weight of pass, ability to turn on the ball. He just honed it.
Even a teenage Bale (who later changed into an attacker) showed the ability to carry the ball up the field, cross well, and shoot with venom.

We could go on.

Renato's technique doesn't look great at all. Loose touches all over the place(leading to him having to use his speed to not lose the ball). Rushed/over-hit passes, Bolasie-style knock and run.
What's the technical skill that he's going to form a top game around?

 

[charlenefan]

I haven't kept up to date with this thread... Is this definitely happening?

 

[dichinero]

He's not wrong, though.
Name a top player. Any top player (midfield or forward) and their technical skills were in evidence as a youngster.

Did Robben dribble as well/consistently as he does today? No, but he ran rings round people in the Premier League as a youngster using the same style.
Did van Persie score as many volleys or goals from tight angles? Probably not (actually debatable), but he showed that ability from day one.

Scholes showed the skills, passing range, control, turning, shooting... from day one.

We could go on.

Renato's technique doesn't look great at all. Loose touches all over the place(leading to him having to use his speed to not lose the ball). Rushed/over-hit passes, Bolasie-style knock and run.
What's the technical skill that he's going to form a top game around?

This

 

[Adzzz]

In the modern game if a player doesnt have the level of technique, control and skill required to build upon by the age of 16 then there is very very little chance of catching up no matter how much work is done later. There is so much put in place in terms of muscle memory, bio mechanics, thought process that has to have become intuitive and instinctive by 16. The days when a player could catch up have long gone.

You peddle this bollocks an awful lot.

 

[Brwned]

He's not wrong, though.
Name a top player. Any top player (midfield or forward) and their technical skills were in evidence as a youngster.

Did Robben dribble as well/consistently as he does today? No, but he ran rings round people in the Premier League as a youngster using the same style.
Did van Persie score as many volleys or goals from tight angles? Probably not (actually debatable), but he showed that ability from day one.

Scholes showed the skills, passing range, control, turning, shooting... from day one.
Giggs - nothing needs to be said. Xavi always had that control of the ball, weight of pass, ability to turn on the ball. He just honed it.
Even a teenage Bale (who later changed into an attacker) showed the ability to carry the ball up the field, cross well, and shoot with venom.

We could go on.

Renato's technique doesn't look great at all. Loose touches all over the place(leading to him having to use his speed to not lose the ball). Rushed/over-hit passes, Bolasie-style knock and run.
What's the technical skill that he's going to form a top game around?

Renato's a defensive midfielder so it makes sense to compare him to others like that. I'm sure the likes of Rijkaard, Matthaus, Redondo and Souness had great technique from the beginning, but not everyone's like that. Were Makelele, Essien, Davids, Simeone, Gattuso, Bremner, Deschamps, Stiles, Ince, Benetti great technicians even in their prime? I woudn't say so. They would be all be worth £30m easily right now. If he turned into a Davids-lite I'd be delighted.

 

[the hea]

He's not wrong, though.
Name a top player. Any top player (midfield or forward) and their technical skills were in evidence as a youngster.

Did Robben dribble as well/consistently as he does today? No, but he ran rings round people in the Premier League as a youngster using the same style.
Did van Persie score as many volleys or goals from tight angles? Probably not (actually debatable), but he showed that ability from day one.

Scholes showed the skills, passing range, control, turning, shooting... from day one.
Giggs - nothing needs to be said. Xavi always had that control of the ball, weight of pass, ability to turn on the ball. He just honed it.
Even a teenage Bale (who later changed into an attacker) showed the ability to carry the ball up the field, cross well, and shoot with venom.

We could go on.

Renato's technique doesn't look great at all. Loose touches all over the place(leading to him having to use his speed to not lose the ball). Rushed/over-hit passes, Bolasie-style knock and run.
What's the technical skill that he's going to form a top game around?

Come on, you can't be serious if you are comparing a defensive midfielder with forwards and wingers.

 

[Nighteyes]

Technique is overrated. Don't give a shit.

What I want is players who are effective at what they are supposed to do not look nice on the ball.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Technique is overrated. Don't give a shit.

What I want is players who are effective at what they are supposed to do not look nice on the ball.

Come on now, everyone wants a Messi/Cristiano Ronaldo/Ibrahimovic performing magic for their team.

 

[Kostur]

Come on now, everyone wants a Messi/Cristiano Ronaldo/Ibrahimovic performing magic for their team.

Excellent technique doesn't guarantee that. Mata's techique is top notch, probably the best in our team and yet you don't really see much magic from him.

 

[Speak]

Excellent technique doesn't guarantee that. Mata's techique is top notch, probably the best in our team and yet you don't really see much magic from him.

It's not top notch. He can barely turn on the ball or side-step a couple of challenges. Which are requirement of his role.

 

[HabeasC]

People are just saying that he isn't a 40m player and that he probably never will, he looks like Khedira. The hype is comparable to the one William Carvalho experienced.

What happened to W. Carvalho in the end?

 

[Speak]

Renato's a defensive midfielder so it makes sense to compare him to others like that. I'm sure the likes of Rijkaard, Matthaus, Redondo and Souness had great technique from the beginning, but not everyone's like that. Were Makelele, Essien, Davids, Simeone, Gattuso, Bremner, Deschamps, Stiles, Ince, Benetti great technicians even in their prime? I woudn't say so. They would be all be worth £30m easily right now. If he turned into a Davids-lite I'd be delighted.

Come on, you can't be serious if you are comparing a defensive midfielder with forwards and wingers.

Fair enough. I genuinely didn't think he was defensive midfielder. Definitely not in the Makelele, Gattuso, or even Essien mould.
Thought he was more of a box-to-box type.

Edit: If he's a definitive midfielder, as you say... Why is it his dribbling and technique always being praised. I've yet to hear anyone praise his defensive ability.

In fact, a page or two back, someone claimed he wasn't like Schneiderlin, because he's a much better dribbler, passer, attacking force etc.

Yet he looks dodgy at those things, which was my point.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Excellent technique doesn't guarantee that. Mata's techique is top notch, probably the best in our team and yet you don't really see much magic from him.

You just don't reach those heights without excellent technique as a platform.

 

[Speak]

What happened to W. Carvalho in the end?

Overhyped. He'll probably end up going to Russia.

People really wanted to make Carvalho happen. Throwing around Vieira and Toure's names, when he looked closer to Chelsea's version of John Obi Mikel with a bit of added size.

 

[JPRouve]

Come on, you can't be serious if you are comparing a defensive midfielder with forwards and wingers.

If he is a defensive midfielder then he should be judged on his decision making, covering, marking, positioning, anticipation, tackling abilities, I haven't seen a lot of praises regarding these attributes, people have mainly talked about his speed, power and passing.
If the price that I've seen in the press is close to the truth then he will have to be close to Makelele.

How does he compare to Casemiro?

 

[JPRouve]

What happened to W. Carvalho in the end?

@Sly said that he was a lot better this season, iirc.

 

[izec]

We havent even signed him and people are banging their heads in if he is worth an imaginary sum that some paper pulled out of their arse because of his buyout clause.

 

[JPRouve]

We havent even signed him and people are banging their heads in if he is worth an imaginary sum that some paper pulled out of their arse because of his buyout clause.

If you discuss about a player transfer, you have to talk about the price, it's part of the context. Sanches for cheap is a good gamble, Sanches for a lot money is a bad gamble.

 

[izec]

If you discuss about a player transfer, you have to talk about the price, it's part of the context. Sanches for cheap is a good gamble, Sanches for a lot money is a bad gamble.

Nobody knows the price. The last few pages, people talked as if the price was 50m or whatever, but he could go for much less for all we know.

 

[cyberman]

So many Benfica watchers on here...

 

[Kostur]

You just don't reach those heights without excellent technique as a platform.

Aye, of course, but you still need to have an instinct of some sort to do it. Just technique won't cut it obviously.

 

[JPRouve]

Nobody knows the price. The last few pages, people talked as if the price was 50m or whatever, but he could go for much less for all we know.

We are discussing and using different variables. The trend with Benfica, Porto or Sporting CP is that they create a hype and make you overpay.

 

[Speak]

So many Benfica watchers on here...

Personally haven't watched him. Have looked at his 'all touches' videos and he looks really average technically. Loose touches, heavy passes, Bolasie dribbles...

One of his fans on here claimed he wasn't like Schneiderlin because he's a much better dribbler, passer etc.
However, he looks dodgy at both.

But then now he's supposedly a defensive midfielder, so it's unfair to judge his technique.

 

[the hea]

Fair enough. I genuinely didn't think he was defensive midfielder. Definitely not in the Makelele, Gattuso, or even Essien mould.
Thought he was more of a box-to-box type.

Edit: If he's a definitive midfielder, as you say... Why is it his dribbling and technique always being praised. I've yet to hear anyone praise his defensive ability.

In fact, a page or two back, someone claimed he wasn't like Schneiderlin, because he's a much better dribbler, passer, attacking force etc.

Yet he looks dodgy at those things, which was my point.

If he is a defensive midfielder then he should be judged on his decision making, covering, marking, positioning, anticipation, tackling abilities, I haven't seen a lot of praises regarding these attributes, people have mainly talked about his speed, power and passing.
If the price that I've seen in the press is close to the truth then he will have to be close to Makelele.

How does he compare to Casemiro?

He has played both as a box to box and a defensive midfielder In the games I have watched, calling him a pure defensive midfielder might not be right as he is still very young and has a lot of developing to do. He could very well become more of a box to box in the future but in the games I have watched he is usually dropping deep to collect the ball and plays it on rapidly usually only taking a couple of touches.

I had watch on a Benfica board and most of them seemed to be thinking that this transfer is as good as done.

 

[Nighteyes]

Come on now, everyone wants a Messi/Cristiano Ronaldo/Ibrahimovic performing magic for their team.

All attacking players.

Besides, technique is an intangible concept. Give me good, effective players over supposedly technically gifted players anyday.

 

[christy87]

What happened to W. Carvalho in the end?

Being out done by his team mate Joao Mario.

 

[JPRouve]

He has played both as a box to box and a defensive midfielder In the games I have watched, calling him a pure defensive midfielder might not be right as he is still very young and has a lot of developing to do. He could very well become more of a box to box in the future but in the games I have watched he is usually dropping deep to collect the ball and plays it on rapidly usually only taking a couple of touches.

I had watch on a Benfica board and most of them seemed to be thinking that this transfer is as good as done.

I have to trust you, I only watched Benfica three times this season.

All attacking players.

Besides, technique is an intangible concept. Give me good, effective players over supposedly technically gifted players anyday.

The effectiveness of a player depends a lot on the system and the team he is playing in, I will always take an intelligent or technically gifted player over an efficient one.

 

[the hea]

I have to trust you, I only watched Benfica three times this season.

I'm no expert in Portuguese football or Benfica, I only started watching them because of our links to him and I have only watched 5 or 6 games so I could very well be wrong in my assessment about him.

 

[dichinero]

Renato's a defensive midfielder so it makes sense to compare him to others like that. I'm sure the likes of Rijkaard, Matthaus, Redondo and Souness had great technique from the beginning, but not everyone's like that. Were Makelele, Essien, Davids, Simeone, Gattuso, Bremner, Deschamps, Stiles, Ince, Benetti great technicians even in their prime? I woudn't say so. They would be all be worth £30m easily right now. If he turned into a Davids-lite I'd be delighted.

I don't think I'd call him a defensive midfielder at all, he has been a B2B every time I've seen him.