Renato Sanches | Loaned to Swansea

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We obviously need a holding midfielder, but also another box to box. Pogba and Herrera cant play all the time
 
A loan deal would be great buisness. We'd get ourselves a Pogba/Herrera backup at virtually no cost.
 
All this commotion over Sanches rejecting us makes no sense. If ya'll were in his spot and had to pick, which club would ya'll pick?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
All this commotion over Sanches rejecting us makes no sense. If ya'll were in his spot and had to pick, which club would ya'll pick?
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I'd have signed for the one where the 3rd best CM on the team is uh, Fellaini or a 54 year old Michael Carrick and not the team with Vidal, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Kimmich, Muller (since you know Lewandowski and 2 wingers were likely to start, he's largely a 10 now) and even Javi Martinez (if Boateng and Hummels are healthy have to assume they'll start.
 
NoPace said:
I'd have signed for the one where the 3rd best CM on the team is uh, Fellaini or a 54 year old Michael Carrick and not the team with Vidal, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Kimmich, Muller (since you know Lewandowski and 2 wingers were likely to start, he's largely a 10 now) and even Javi Martinez (if Boateng and Hummels are healthy have to assume they'll start.
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1) Context: Before hand, we had Basti and Morgan Schneiderlin. So he wouldn't have been as void from competition as you think.
2) Choosing a club dosen't soley revolve around playing time. Getting to develop under a superb crop of talent can play a factor into it as well.
 
NoPace said:
I'd have signed for the one where the 3rd best CM on the team is uh, Fellaini or a 54 year old Michael Carrick and not the team with Vidal, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Kimmich, Muller (since you know Lewandowski and 2 wingers were likely to start, he's largely a 10 now) and even Javi Martinez (if Boateng and Hummels are healthy have to assume they'll start.
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Yes that team that failed to qualify for CL, fired their coach and were yet to appoint a new one. BTW where was the management when Bayern were moving in to snatch the deal?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
1) Context: Before hand, we had Basti and Morgan Schneiderlin. So he wouldn't have been as void from competition as you think.
2) Choosing a club dosen't soley revolve around playing time. Getting to develop under a superb crop of talent can play a factor into it as well.
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That's a good point. Our midfield didn't look so bad. But I still think way too many young players (not only in football, you see it in U.S college/high school recruiting for American football and basketball) and their representatives don't take into account things like depth charts and the tactics of the club or their manager.

For example, if you're a decent young left-back, you should be desperately trying to get to Liverpool, who are playing a 31 year old James Milner there. But if you're a winger, and you're going to be competing with Mane and Coutinho for the next 5 years, probably best off to stay away. Instead players will go wherever the money is slightly better or they think seems exciting and they lose out in the end.

Sanches should probably have actually gone to a club like Arsenal or Sevilla or Dortmund who have given a lot of minutes to players like Coquelin, Iborra and Castro over the last couple of seasons and while the latter 2 aren't bad, you would expect a confident young talent like Sanches to fancy his odds at taking their spot. But is it a surprise that he's lost a year of playing time after signing for Bayern? It shouldn't be.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
1) Context: Before hand, we had Basti and Morgan Schneiderlin. So he wouldn't have been as void from competition as you think.
2) Choosing a club dosen't soley revolve around playing time. Getting to develop under a superb crop of talent can play a factor into it as well.
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Historical evidence shows that regular playing time at the highest level achievable is what is most important. No matter who you are training with, without the accompanying game time, the player's development will be stunted.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
Historical evidence shows that regular playing time at the highest level achievable is what is most important. No matter who you are training with, without the accompanying game time, the player's development will be stunted.
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Yes, but there is no hiding the fact that where and under whom a player develops is critical to players development. Bayern and United(before our collapse) had many young players coming through ranks who came up under world class players. You need a proper balance of both with the scale leaning towards the side where players get game time to accompany it as you said. With Xabi Alonso and Arturo Vidal not getting any younger and Bayern competing on all 3 fronts, I wouldn't consider it a bad decision to move to an established club like Bayern.
 
NoPace said:
Sanches should probably have actually gone to a club like Arsenal or Sevilla or Dortmund who have given a lot of minutes to players like Coquelin, Iborra and Castro over the last couple of seasons and while the latter 2 aren't bad, you would expect a confident young talent like Sanches to fancy his odds at taking their spot. But is it a surprise that he's lost a year of playing time after signing for Bayern? It shouldn't be.
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Fair point. It also didn't help his case that he didn't play well whenever he did get the chance either.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Yes, but there is no hiding the fact that where and under whom a player develops is critical to players development. Bayern and United(before our collapse) had many young players coming through ranks who came up under world class players. You need a proper balance of both with the scale leaning towards the side where players get game time to accompany it as you said. With Xabi Alonso and Arturo Vidal not getting any younger and Bayern competing on all 3 fronts, I wouldn't consider it a bad decision to move to an established club like Bayern.
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The ambitions of clubs like Bayern make it quite difficult for a teenager to get meaningful minutes beyond garbage minutes or against bottom feeding/lower division clubs. The lack of time also affects the rhythm and confidence of the player and some cope better than others.

Rooney and Ronaldo are probably the last teenagers can be said to have lived up to their potential without going out on loan and their talents can be said to be at least a level above Sanches. As the game has become more competitive, it has been harder to provide such opportunity for teenagers. Rashford is the latest one and is lucky to come at a time when the club is less competitive and rebuilding. Pogba too was lucky to coincide with the rebuilding phase at Juventus.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Mbappe, cos if he goes to a club like Madrid he risks stunting his career as well.
 
Stack said:
When I was saying we shouldnt buy him and he wasnt that good a year or so back the vast majority of posters were saying we should buy him and he was going to be a superstar. Now people dont want him?
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I have the opposite opinion to you, I think he is a fantastic young player, will be a superstar and we should very much be in for him now regardless of a poor season. Same time I totally agree with the main point you make of people changing opinions based purely on one season. He is a teenager that has moved to a huge club, not got a run of games and been unable to prove himself, doesnt really make him any different than the player he was 12 months earlier.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I thought he did well in the first game, but he was superb in the second.
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Yeah we rave about youngsters if they are English teenagers. Tielmans showed plenty of examples of his talent in both games, we seem to expect youngsters on the continent to be the finished article even when teenagers yet hopeful of promising yougnsters here liek Keane and Lingard when they are 24, absurd. Tielmans and Sanches I think will both be great players in the long run
 
cheeky_backheel said:
The ambitions of clubs like Bayern make it quite difficult for a teenager to get meaningful minutes beyond garbage minutes or against bottom feeding/lower division clubs. The lack of time also affects the rhythm and confidence of the player and some cope better than others.

Rooney and Ronaldo are probably the last teenagers can be said to have lived up to their potential without going out on loan and their talents can be said to be at least a level above Sanches. As the game has become more competitive, it has been harder to provide such opportunity for teenagers. Rashford is the latest one and is lucky to come at a time when the club is less competitive and rebuilding. Pogba too was lucky to coincide with the rebuilding phase at Juventus.

It will be interesting to see what happens to Mbappe, cos if he goes to a club like Madrid he risks stunting his career as well.
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Although there are other examples I totally agree with you. I think he hasnt had the oportunities and I think he would get them with us. If I had to sign four players this summer my midfield choice would be Verratti, but seems unlikely and Sanches seems the next best option for me of players I know. Some saying we need a holding midfielder or can he play next to Pogba. I say no and yes! Herrera behind Pogba and Sanches looks full of energy and Sanches seems really good positionally, think he would complement our midfield perfectly and instantly give us a totally different dimension to the style Fellaini brings
 
jesperjaap said:
I have the opposite opinion to you, I think he is a fantastic young player, will be a superstar and we should very much be in for him now regardless of a poor season. Same time I totally agree with the main point you make of people changing opinions based purely on one season. He is a teenager that has moved to a huge club, not got a run of games and been unable to prove himself, doesnt really make him any different than the player he was 12 months earlier.
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his technique and skill levels under pressure arent good enough to become a superstar. He will over time be found out.
 
Stack said:
his technique and skill levels under pressure arent good enough to become a superstar. He will over time be found out.
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Maybe, I confess to being one of the Andreson lovers for far too long. I think he will be closer to an Edgar Davids than an Anderson over the next few years so disagree (not saying by any means to that level, he was one of the very very best) but its opinions isnt it, I hold the opposite one to you, I guess time will tell.
 
jesperjaap said:
Maybe, I confess to being one of the Andreson lovers for far too long. I think he will be closer to an Edgar Davids than an Anderson over the next few years so disagree (not saying by any means to that level, he was one of the very very best) but its opinions isnt it, I hold the opposite one to you, I guess time will tell.
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to be honest i really hope im wrong.
 
NoPace said:
I'd have signed for the one where the 3rd best CM on the team is uh, Fellaini or a 54 year old Michael Carrick and not the team with Vidal, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Kimmich, Muller (since you know Lewandowski and 2 wingers were likely to start, he's largely a 10 now) and even Javi Martinez (if Boateng and Hummels are healthy have to assume they'll start.
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He may also of been pissed off waiting. Thats if we were in for him like the press reckoned we were for ages (bit similar to Griezmann this year)
 
Someone was on ESPN I think the other day talking about how he hates living in Munich and cannot settle at all. Misses Portugal very much and basically has been a waste of time and money. If this is true I dont see how he would setttle in Manchester any easier.
 
Ramshock said:
Someone was on ESPN I think the other day talking about how he hates living in Munich and cannot settle at all. Misses Portugal very much and basically has been a waste of time and money. If this is true I dont see how he would setttle in Manchester any easier.
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language barrier maybe? most young people speak english to a degree or at least have a foundation for it, even if only because of entertainment, but yeah that could help you settle easier/faster? also, having a portuguese manager might be able to help with that
 
I see no reason for us to be interested in him. He chose Bayern over us and then flopped there. So now we are supposed to help Bayern recoup the money they spent on him? I don't think so. There are plenty of midfielders out there who are way better. We should be targeting them.
 
abhayselvan said:
I see no reason for us to be interested in him. He chose Bayern over us and then flopped there. So now we are supposed to help Bayern recoup the money they spent on him? I don't think so. There are plenty of midfielders out there who are way better. We should be targeting them.
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Completely agree.
 
izec said:
We obviously need a holding midfielder, but also another box to box. Pogba and Herrera cant play all the time
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Which should be Andreas Pereira.
 
abhayselvan said:
I see no reason for us to be interested in him. He chose Bayern over us and then flopped there. So now we are supposed to help Bayern recoup the money they spent on him? I don't think so. There are plenty of midfielders out there who are way better. We should be targeting them.
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He is 19 ...did that not come up in your thought process once?
 
Ramshock said:
He is 19 ...did that not come up in your thought process once?
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So you think we should sign him? We need a midfielder who will be an immediate starter for us and not some kid who will take his own sweet time to develop. We already have enough kids on our hands incase you forgot.
 
He's crap....I said it at Euro2016 that he's an average footballer with no technically ability at all on how to pass a ball and he's been found wanting at Bayern (Who I was stunned would take a chance on him). And yes he's only 19 but I really don't see the lad being any sort of special footballer that he was made to be out to be.

Keep him where he is....he did reject us (thank god) at the end of the day and he'll end up playing for one of the Milan teams or Stoke within a couple of years
 
It would be a pointless signing. As somebody else has already mentioned, we have Andreas Pereira coming back and we should give him a place in the squad for next season. He could go on to be a better player than Sanches.
 
Wayne's World said:
He's crap....I said it at Euro2016 that he's an average footballer with no technically ability at all on how to pass a ball and he's been found wanting at Bayern (Who I was stunned would take a chance on him). And yes he's only 19 but I really don't see the lad being any sort of special footballer that he was made to be out to be.

Keep him where he is....he did reject us (thank god) at the end of the day and he'll end up playing for one of the Milan teams or Stoke within a couple of years
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All those people, including SAF, that voted him the young player of the tournament must be stupid, blind or both?
 
Wayne's World said:
He's crap....I said it at Euro2016 that he's an average footballer with no technically ability at all on how to pass a ball and he's been found wanting at Bayern (Who I was stunned would take a chance on him). And yes he's only 19 but I really don't see the lad being any sort of special footballer that he was made to be out to be.

Keep him where he is....he did reject us (thank god) at the end of the day and he'll end up playing for one of the Milan teams or Stoke within a couple of years
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Let's revisit your post in 10 years.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
All those people, including SAF, that voted him the young player of the tournament must be stupid, blind or both?
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Blind in my opinion, he was made to look good because he'd make this busting runs against the likes of Hungary and Wales and people bought into it thinking he was the next Yaya Toure and he literally won the award after scoring one goal against Poland. Yet I can remember the countless times he kept giving the ball away and his passing for a supposed defensive midfielder was atrocious. Even the best managers in the world get it wrong from time to time and they definitely got it wrong Bayern and I could possibly see him departing this summer because with the way the market is, they could get their money back since clubs in England have unlimited money these days
 
abhayselvan said:
So you think we should sign him? We need a midfielder who will be an immediate starter for us and not some kid who will take his own sweet time to develop. We already have enough kids on our hands incase you forgot.
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Yeah, and then demand a move to Madrid or Barcelona once we've turned him into a superstar.

I think this ship has sailed. He rejected us for Bayern and we should now be looking at bringing someone in that's more of the finished article. Someone that isn't going to need 2-3 years of development.
 
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