I don't know, and neither do you. This is the classic 'god of the gaps,' argument. Because we don't know the answer (yet) it must be god.
Religion, what's the point?
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I don't know, and neither do you. This is the classic 'god of the gaps,' argument. Because we don't know the answer (yet) it must be god.
*This* poses logical difficulties and accepting something with no single shred of evidence (god) doesn’t?
There’s more evidence for yetis and little green men from Mars than for god.
*This* poses logical difficulties and accepting something with no single shred of evidence (god) doesn’t?
There’s more evidence for yetis and little green men from Mars than for god.
Perhaps that may be because you look up evidence for little green men and yetis and don’t do so for God?
Yeah. The gullibility of people is proven by the popularity of religion
Note: I was hoping my Enter Sandman reference would be noted
Very good, don't know how I missed that one.
Or we go based on our repeated and everyday experiences, our scientific knowledge, and inferences to the best explanation.
@McUnited
Do you believe in the Noah myth? Are you a young earth creationist?
Or do you simply choose to believe that your god created this mind-bendingly vast universe just for us? How deep does your belief run?
Do you believe in the Noah myth? Are you a young earth creationist?
Or do you simply choose to believe that your god created this mind-bendingly vast universe just for us? How deep does your belief run?
Yes, that's what we do. And never has it lead us to 'god did it.'
I’m prepared to believe the Noah story (though I’m not certain to what degree), although with respect to your second question I think it runs too much against scientific knowledge to believe the earth is only thousands of years old.
No it leads us to something immensely powerful, immaterial, timeless, personal being did it.
Please share the scientific knowledge and inference that leads to “god”.
So religion is wrong on the age of the Universe, the nature of the Universe, the extent and composition (hey! There’s no firmament or ether and everything doesn’t revolve around the earth) but is right about god? Nice.
Ummm. Nope. Not a single document in all actual science points to anything of the sort.
You’re all asking very similar questions so can I direct you to my other responses?
No. Direct me to the scientific research that you’re alluding to.
Edit: I mean science and not something from Ken Ham.
Science doesn’t prove God because it deals with the mate
Research indicating that the universe had a definite beginning can easily be found.
But wait when did time exist?
So god has no beginning...?
Further to that - do you believe in Adam and Eve, or evolution?
As for the previous question - there are trees that are older than the bible would have us believe the planet is. I really don't need to go any further with that, as there is no debate (and not that you're debating it either).
As for the Noah myth - I am assuming that you have not heard of the epic of Gilgamesh, or about Atrahasis, or Ziusudra? The Noah myth is a clear plagiarism of previous stories and fables told by older civilizations within that region. Those stories clearly pre-date the Noah myth by centuries.
Also, do you imagine that the asian civilizations (etc.) would have noticed that they were living under water for a year?
And how would you reason that the all-loving, omnipotent and omnipresent god would drown his perfect creations made in his perfect image? For being not-so-perfect after all. Would the all-knowing god not have seen that coming to begin with? Or did he make everyone (in his perfect image) knowing full well that he'd end up drowning them all anyway?
And why not just click his fingers and make all the sinners disappear? Why drown them? Or better yet, why not just get it right in the first place.
Now as for Noah. Do you believe that Noah and his immediate family incestuously repopulated the whole entire planet? To the point where there were enough people around to build the pyramids (or was it the tower of Babel?) a mere few decades later?
How many animals were on board? Surely the dinosaurs weren't on board too like some Christians hilariously suggest. How did they feed them all, or dispose of the waste? How did they keep every single one alive, lest certain species die out?
And how did one 500 year old drunk manage to build what would have been the biggest boat ever made (even to this day)? Surely not the 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high that the bible says it was - which translates to: 137m long, 23m wide and 14m high.
This was made out of wood, and with mere rudimentary tools, and obviously none of the materials, equipment and even any help from anyone, let alone shipwrights.
I'd also like to know how all of the animals got to the Ark in the first place? Did the Kangaroos, Koalas etc. of Australia and the Sloths, Jaguars, etc. of South America's swim over (you get the point)? How did they get back? Did Noah drop them all off like the first ever Uber service?
And back to the trees that were around prior to when the flood allegedly occurred - how did they survive?
Where did the water go?
Hopefully by the end of this post you have realised just how ridiculous that myth is.
Maybe you'll find this series of video interesting. They categorically disproving the flood myth:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXJ4dsU0oGMJP95iZJqEjmc5oxY5r6BzP
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In your post you referred to a statement that said ...Therefore God created the Universe.
If that is really the case then there should be evidence to support that.
You see, science already knows precisely how our universe developed from about one second after the event called the big bang.
It can show how matter formed from the hot dense energy and it can show exactly how everything developed from that point 13.8bn years ago up to the present.
All I am asking is evidence for the contrary argument that God created everything.
I have a very good friend who is a CofE vicar and I have asked him the same question and he tells me that almost nobody who he knows that work for the church actually believes in the creation theory.
Except it doesn't, and never has. You want to believe this so you have presupposed the answer, and inserted it into the equation.
The Noah myth says it was covered with water, yet we know that there are civilizations older than the Noah myth.
The appeal to a mystery (beginning of the universe) with an even bigger mystery (god).
If you can be bothered, read my long arse post.
But in short the Noah myth is a plagiarism. They were all living in the Iraqi floor planes, so it's reasonable to believe that some small localised flooding occurred from time to time.
Yeah, I know the Gilgamesh stuff and that the Tigris and Euphrates flood and all that.
There’s just so much wrong with that story that make it absolutely ridiculous. You did well putting it all into one post.
Exit light, enter night.
Grain of sand.
Edit:
Note: I was hoping my Enter Sandman reference would be noted
It was!
Yep, it's literally unbelievable nonsense.
An excellent argument which has wit as well. I wish I could have written that as well as you have. Well said and well done.
It is extremely vain of humans to believe that the billions of years that have passed and the thousands of galaxies that existed, was all just for us to tear lumps out of each other for a few thousand years.
I think the point is that it is now believed that Our Universe may have a start and an end in its present from but it could be one of possibly an infinite number of universes. It is true to say that 'we' don't actually know yet.
No, it was all for my football team to beat yours.
Cheers mate
Religon, or at least some parts of it has its uses. While i do not believe in much, i see the value of some of the "moral" aspects of religions: The ten commandments holds values one should follow to various degrees.
What i do not like with religion is how it is used. For me, people can believe what they want, as long as they behaves as good and sensible human beings. When people are using religion as an argument or excuse for harming others or intruding on how other people lives their lives... Well, i do not like it. A person can believe in the Spaghettimonster for all i care, as long as he does not try to enforce this belief on others, especially those not old enough to decide yet.
When people of faith are using it as an excuse to wage wars (as seen countless times in the past and still do today) i think that in some cases religions cases more harm than good. And that is really the issue. I can see the benefits of some aspects of religions (lets not differentiate between them as they all have the same origin, just developed differently), but all the extra baggage that it brings is not good.
What i do not like with religion is how it is used. For me, people can believe what they want, as long as they behaves as good and sensible human beings. When people are using religion as an argument or excuse for harming others or intruding on how other people lives their lives... Well, i do not like it. A person can believe in the Spaghettimonster for all i care, as long as he does not try to enforce this belief on others, especially those not old enough to decide yet.
When people of faith are using it as an excuse to wage wars (as seen countless times in the past and still do today) i think that in some cases religions cases more harm than good. And that is really the issue. I can see the benefits of some aspects of religions (lets not differentiate between them as they all have the same origin, just developed differently), but all the extra baggage that it brings is not good.
Exactly right. We know that there are approximately 200bn stars in our galaxy and that in the observable universe there are about the same number of galaxies.
So. 200bn times 200bn (circa) equates to a staggering number of stars, with a high percentage of these having a planatary system.
Ok. So if God created all this then why did he send his Only Son here to earth. Why bother creating all the other stars and planets ?
Got it!
It's a deductive argument. If you accept the premises, the conclusion logically follows. As for science explaining everything, science offers one type of explanation. Why is the water in the kettle boiling? Science tells us because it's because the heating element has heated up the water to a certain temperature whereby the liquid turns to gas etc. Another explanation is that I want to make a cup of tea. They are both equally valid, one doesn't invalidate the other.
Ah, well that's that then.
The 10 commandments are mostly rubbish.
- You shall have no other Gods before me
- You shall not make for yourselves an idol
- You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God
- Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy
- Honor your father and your mother
- You shall not murder
- You shall not commit adultery
- You shall not steal
- You shall not give false testimony
- You shall not covet
We could not flourish as societies/people without learning to work together, and thus reason out our own morals and ways of behaving alongside one another.
We certainly never needed a good to tell us not to steal or kill each other.
In your opinion.
Why not?
Morals are inherently within the people themselves? Hmm.. exactly as one would expect if we are created in His image.
You specifically said that science shows us that the Universe was created by someone or something very powerful yada yada. Please point me towards that.
And which “mate” does science deal with?
Fantastic post.