Religion, what's the point?

Red Defence said:
I find it impossible to believe that God (an.elevated and highly developed spiritual being) would allow anyone to write, in his name, that women should be obedient and can be beaten if disobedient.

A truly elevated spiritual being would never favour the oppression of one sex over another and would never advocate violence.

That's my take on it anyway. Sadly it seems that she and I disagree on that.
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Been reading The Better Angels of Our Nature recently and it has a great section on a handful of the thousands of violent acts recorded in the Old Testament. The story of Bathsheba really does cover all the bases.

King David lusts over a married woman bathing, later impregnates her, tries to cover it up by summoning her husband back from combat, and when the husband refuses David orchestrates his death on the front line and then marries the recently widowed Bathsheba. God naturally got angry at all this so sent Nathan to punish him, and his punishment ranged from their first child dying from severe illness within the first week to one of his sons publicly raping ten of David's concubines as part of an attempt to overthrow him.

It's remarkable to think that documents like this are part of a large part of society's moral fibre.
 
Red Defence said:
I find it impossible to believe that God (an.elevated and highly developed spiritual being) would allow anyone to write, in his name, that women should be obedient and can be beaten if disobedient.

A truly elevated spiritual being would never favour the oppression of one sex over another and would never advocate violence.

That's my take on it anyway. Sadly it seems that she and I disagree on that.
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...or that a highly developed spiritual being who has greater love for us than we can imagine would send someone who rejects him/her/it to an eternity of excruciating pain in hell.
 
Somehow the conversation at lunch today turned into a "pick on the guy who doesn't follow Christianity" session and I was asked why I didn't just read the Bible and come to realize "the truth". I explained that I had read the Bible, and that's the exact reason why I don't like it, and used 2 Kings 2:23-25 as an example.
Elisha Is Jeered
23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!”24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.
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Defenses of the passage ranged from "well we don't know all of the details" to "we don't know how old the 'kids' were" to "there are some things I don't understand, but if God did it, he knows the reason and shouldn't be questioned".

They genuinely can't understand why I'm put off by that passage. They've even text me later today about it still trying to convince me that I'm looking at it the wrong way.
 
Carolina Red said:
Somehow the conversation at lunch today turned into a "pick on the guy who doesn't follow Christianity" session and I was asked why I didn't just read the Bible and come to realize "the truth". I explained that I had read the Bible, and that's the exact reason why I don't like it, and used 2 Kings 2:23-25 as an example.

Defenses of the passage ranged from "well we don't know all of the details" to "we don't know how old the 'kids' were" to "there are some things I don't understand, but if God did it, he knows the reason and shouldn't be questioned".

They genuinely can't understand why I'm put off by that passage. They've even text me later today about it still trying to convince me that I'm looking at it the wrong way.
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I've seen you post several stories of this nature and I genuinely admire your capacity to patiently maintain dialogue with people who are so literal regarding their religion.

My country is irreligious to such an extent that I don't really encounter people with such extreme religious fundamentalist beliefs (people who are religious, yes, but in a far more relatable way, even if I still don't agree with them). I'm not sure I'd even know where to start: where do they stand on matters such as Abraham's almost murder of his son, the "you can rape my daughter" crap, never mind the wildly contradictory and nonsensical creation myth amongst the pages and pages of often entertaining moral abominations. They believe this literally? What wisdom do they see, what moral parables? How does you even begin a debate, or empathise even, with someone holding such positions?
 
Religion is inherently about control. Follow our rules, if you don't you'll go to hell or whatever version of it exists in whatever religion.

The things is the fundamental rules of the majority of religions can be boiled down to one thing, don't be a cnut. It's easy to follow that mantra in life without having to bow to some space fairy.

If people want to follow religion that's fine by me, to each their own and all that - whatever makes them happy but I will admit I never take anyone seriously that's religious, I question their general intellect and tend to avoid them if possible. As I would if someone fanatically believed in elves, or leprechauns or lizard people controlling governments.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I've seen you post several stories of this nature and I genuinely admire your capacity to patiently maintain dialogue with people who are so literal regarding their religion.

My country is irreligious to such an extent that I don't really encounter people with such extreme religious fundamentalist beliefs (people who are religious, yes, but in a far more relatable way, even if I still don't agree with them). I'm not sure I'd even know where to start: where do they stand on matters such as Abraham's almost murder of his son, the "you can rape my daughter" crap, never mind the wildly contradictory and nonsensical creation myth amongst the pages and pages of often entertaining moral abominations. They believe this literally? What wisdom do they see, what moral parables? How does you even begin a debate, or empathise even, with someone holding such positions?
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I appreciate the kind words.

To somewhat answer your other questions...
This is also someone who told me that having 2 students 5 years apart get in horrible car accidents was a "wake up sign from God" that I need to repent.

I politely as possible told her that if God was putting kids in ICU's and graves to get my attention then I don't think he's someone I would like to know more about.
 
So a parent of one of my wrestlers posted this on Facebook for people to watch and asked if anyone had paid attention to the "prophetic and astrological connections to the Bible".


I wanna ask him if I should just stop planning for wrestling this winter...
 
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If you want to believe that omnipotent god(s) exist, but that they choose to let humans be... humans ... then perhaps what you should believe in is humanity...albeit with its sentient flaws... but with its core grounded in reason, logic and sense... rather than in an imagination incarnate.
 
Hullyback said:
Religion is inherently about control. Follow our rules, if you don't you'll go to hell or whatever version of it exists in whatever religion.

The things is the fundamental rules of the majority of religions can be boiled down to one thing, don't be a cnut. It's easy to follow that mantra in life without having to bow to some space fairy.

If people want to follow religion that's fine by me, to each their own and all that - whatever makes them happy but I will admit I never take anyone seriously that's religious, I question their general intellect and tend to avoid them if possible. As I would if someone fanatically believed in elves, or leprechauns or lizard people controlling governments.
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This. And my dad was a minister. :lol:
My wife is very religious whereas my daughter is not.
Baby Blaggs is too young to decide at this point
 
Over 60 scholars correct Pope Francis for ‘propagating heresies’

ROME, September 23, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – Expressing “profound grief” and “filial devotion,” Catholic clergy and lay scholars from around the world have issued what they are calling a “Filial Correction” to Pope Francis for “propagating heresy.”

The Filial Correction, in the form of a 25-page letter, bears the signatures of sixty-two Catholic academics, researchers, and scholars in various fields from twenty countries. They assert that Pope Francis has supported heretical positions about marriage, the moral life, and the Eucharist that are causing a host of “heresies and other errors” to spread throughout the Catholic Church.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-62-scholars-correct-pope-francis-for-propagating-heresies
 
Carolina Red said:
Really!?
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Yes. But my arguments are starting to make sense. She was raised Mormon and that's a hard bond to break. I've banned them from the house but they still come by. I've told them they aren't welcome but they say Mrs Blaggs mother is a member of the church and its their Christian duty.
I answered the door last time with Vader a 80 pound pitbull and said its his time to run the yard. They left pretty quickly.
Can't get rid of the feckers.
My daughter is a total atheist and that's fine. I slightly believe in a higher power but she's all science. My house is a cluster feck.

It went from the kids on bikes to the fecking elders coming over and I'd go hide in the den. Then I got pissed off and would sit there cheering the football or saying "bullshit" one of them pulled me up on it. Well bad move. I said "listen you cultist mother fecker this is my house get the feck out" oh i got shit for that. But feck em. Don't come unannounced to my door with cookies spouting your shit in front of my children. Bitchy wad like thank you I hate them just coming by. Mrs was really pissed.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Yes. But my arguments are starting to make sense. She was raised Mormon and that's a hard bond to break. I've banned them from the house but they still come by. I've told them they aren't welcome but they say Mrs Blaggs mother is a member of the church and its their Christian duty.
I answered the door last time with Vader a 80 pound pitbull and said its his time to run the yard. They left pretty quickly.
Can't get rid of the feckers.
My daughter is a total atheist and that's fine. I slightly believe in a higher power but she's all science. My house is a cluster feck.

It went from the kids on bikes to the fecking elders coming over and I'd go hide in the den. Then I got pissed off and would sit there cheering the football or saying "bullshit" one of them pulled me up on it. Well bad move. I said "listen you cultist mother fecker this is my house get the feck out" oh i got shit for that. But feck em. Don't come unannounced to my door with cookies spouting your shit in front of my children. Bitchy wad like thank you I hate them just coming by. Mrs was really pissed.
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Very good reception you gave them :lol:

For me it's the damn Jehovah's Witnesses always coming by for some reason. They'll always come by while the wife is asleep coming off a night shift at the hospital too. If she ever gets to that door before I convince them to gtf away, they're gonna be in for it
 
Carolina Red said:
Very good reception you gave them :lol:

For me it's the damn Jehovah's Witnesses always coming by for some reason. They'll always come by while the wife is asleep coming off a night shift at the hospital too. If she ever gets to that door before I convince them to gtf away, they're gonna be in for it
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I actually feel a bit sad for folks like that.

The brainwashing is so complete that they are willing to endure abuse on a daily basis going door to dooe spouting such tripes. Not the YouTube commenters who popped into any video remotely touching religion and go off on a rant about the end of day though, feck'em.
 
Carolina Red said:
Very good reception you gave them :lol:

For me it's the damn Jehovah's Witnesses always coming by for some reason. They'll always come by while the wife is asleep coming off a night shift at the hospital too. If she ever gets to that door before I convince them to gtf away, they're gonna be in for it
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I always offer the kids on bikes some water. They're kids. The ELDERS I greet with fire. I get Vader worked up and when he's excited I just answer the door with him wanting to play.
Playing is snarling and growling and wanting to jump. He's harmless but an 80 pound pitbull will make them rethink their religion.
 
Where's your God now? I've even got him to the point i say. "Mormons" "Jehovah's witnesses" and get him so worked up he hears that and goes nuts chasing his tail.

They freak out because he'll get so excited he'll hit the door
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I actually feel a bit sad for folks like that.

The brainwashing is so complete that they are willing to endure abuse on a daily basis going door to dooe spouting such tripes. Not the YouTube commenters who popped into any video remotely touching religion and go off on a rant about the end of day though, feck'em.
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I taught my dog through positive reinforcement. I'd jump and clap so he got super excited then slap the door. It was meant for intruders. I use it now for religious groups.
 
I could build and maintain a man made ant colony. Fill it with ants and then technically I would become their God.

I could give them the resources to flourish or I could poor boiling water over them and kill them all.

I wouldn't have any control over individual ants (bringing them back to life, curing sickness and cruelty amongst the ants towards each other ) only control over the existence of the entire colony itself.

If there is a God, then we are his ant colony.

It's the only way I can get my head around how a supreme being would allow such evil, pain, suffering and cruelty to persist.

Either it doesn't have the ability to control the individual factors mentioned above or it's an absolute fecking maniac.
 
Garethw said:
I could build and maintain a man made ant colony. Fill it with ants and then technically I would become their God.

I could give them the resources to flourish or I could poor boiling water over them and kill them all.

I wouldn't have any control over individual ants (bringing them back to life, curing sickness and cruelty amongst the ants towards each other ) only control over the existence of the entire colony itself.

If there is a God, then we are his ant colony.

It's the only way I can get my head around how a supreme being would allow such evil, pain, suffering and cruelty to persist.

Either it doesn't have the ability to control the individual factors mentioned above or it's an absolute fecking maniac.
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Well, I have tried to stay away from this discussion so far but after reading your post, I thought I should share my bit...

My kid who goes to Kindergarten is 4 years old, i drop him every day and notice there are African, Asian, Norwegian and South American kids and my son has a very strong bond with all of them. Watching their chemistry and friendship makes me realize how come we learn to hate each other because no child ever gets it from his/her mother's womb. And then when I see the blood shed all over the world, genocides going on in certain regions, wars, military mights bombing the sh!t out of other countries for one reason or another and one particular trying to bully all the rest of the world, I ask myself and everyone here is it religion or atheism who is to blame for that ?

There is a Kindergarten in a Norwegian City where a kid comes back home and her mother notices one day that his sons ass hole is unnaturally wide. After she filed a complained and Police did inquiry, it was revealed that a certain male norwegian teacher in Kindergarten was fulfilling his sexual desires with 3-4 years old kids. I will punch the face of a person who will relate this to religion or atheism.

I can't recall one example where a religion or non-religion system has sustained for a longer duration of time while being beneficial to the humanity, maybe wee need to take a look at ourselves. There are always elements who take control of the system, manipulate it for their own interests. I can understand people being annoyed or put off by the idea of Supreme Being for not interacting or interfering over all the evil and bloodshed going on in the world. Maybe instead of blaming we should take some of the responsibility for all that is going on. Blaming religion or atheism for all the evil, hate and bloodshed in the world because we are so devoted to our own opinions and beliefs is just ridiculous.
 
shahzadi said:
Well, I have tried to stay away from this discussion so far but after reading your post, I thought I should share my bit...

My kid who goes to Kindergarten is 4 years old, i drop him every day and notice there are African, Asian, Norwegian and South American kids and my son has a very strong bond with all of them. Watching their chemistry and friendship makes me realize how come we learn to hate each other because no child ever gets it from his/her mother's womb. And then when I see the blood shed all over the world, genocides going on in certain regions, wars, military mights bombing the sh!t out of other countries for one reason or another and one particular trying to bully all the rest of the world, I ask myself and everyone here is it religion or atheism who is to blame for that ?

There is a Kindergarten in a Norwegian City where a kid comes back home and her mother notices one day that his sons ass hole is unnaturally wide. After she filed a complained and Police did inquiry, it was revealed that a certain male norwegian teacher in Kindergarten was fulfilling his sexual desires with 3-4 years old kids. I will punch the face of a person who will relate this to religion or atheism.

I can't recall one example where a religion or non-religion system has sustained for a longer duration of time while being beneficial to the humanity, maybe wee need to take a look at ourselves. There are always elements who take control of the system, manipulate it for their own interests. I can understand people being annoyed or put off by the idea of Supreme Being for not interacting or interfering over all the evil and bloodshed going on in the world. Maybe instead of blaming we should take some of the responsibility for all that is going on. Blaming religion or atheism for all the evil, hate and bloodshed in the world because we are so devoted to our own opinions and beliefs is just ridiculous.
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Oh dear God, that is horrendous mate. I have a three year old myself and that makes me feel sick to the stomach :(
 
i was watching a You tube program about films the other week and they where talking about films that first made you cry and one of them said one of the panellists Prince of Egypt becuase of god killing all the Egyptians first borns.

That got me thinking just how mental the Christianity is i mean if you believe in the bible you must believe that god killed an entire races first born children, just becuase of their Race and the fact that some of their parents where doing something wrong.

And they believe this is a god who gets to choose whose worthy of going to heaven? When you actually sit and think about it its mental!
 
What religious people believe is what was told to them by previous generations, the Bible, etc. right?

So, my thought is drugs are not new. They must have been hitting the opium or hash or whatever for thousands of years. It's not difficult to imagine they hallucinated and saw/heard some crazy shit. It's also believable they could not comprehend due simply to the time and understanding of the effects of drugs and such. I think they truly believed what they saw/heard as real. Wrote it down.

My thought is the Bible is writings of huge trips.
 
Carolina Red said:
Very good reception you gave them :lol:

For me it's the damn Jehovah's Witnesses always coming by for some reason. They'll always come by while the wife is asleep coming off a night shift at the hospital too. If she ever gets to that door before I convince them to gtf away, they're gonna be in for it
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Just gave me this thought. I see these types around town here and there; aren't they the ones in white dress shirts with ties often walking or on bikes?

Anyhow, I am considering buying one of those butcher murderer Halloween costumes, buy some fake blood, etc. Next time one of them feckers rings my doorbell (I never answer) I'll give them a "hold up, just a few seconds." Get the costume out, splash some blood, grab a clever and open the door. "Kinda busy today, care to come inside for a bit?"
 
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