Religion, what's the point?

SparkedIntoLife said:
These arguments come up so much but they are fairly lazy. Not picking on you personally but let’s break this down.

Religion is the biggest killer? Seriously? I’d say greed and money come way higher on the list of perpetrating motivations. The two biggest commandments in Christianity are love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Hardly incitements to war.

This point also totally ignores all the good done through religion (I’ll speak about specifically Christianity as that is my faith). Many hospitals were started by Christians. Who runs the majority of food banks and night shelters? Churches! Christians are statistically the biggest charity givers. We do a huge amount of good in society.

As for your point about forcing their religion onto you, I’m curious what this actually looks like in your life? Because I don’t know about you but I find many Christians these days are the most shy among my friends about communicating what they stand for. Barely any of us go up to people on the street or post about our faith on Facebook. Most Christians these days are so afraid of causing offence that we stay quiet.

I’m not sure where this ‘forcing’ is going on for you? And what power does anyone, bar the government, have to force anything onto you? You’re an adult, right?

If anyone is being forceful and arrogantly self righteous these days, it’s the atheist evangelists like many in this thread. Everyone is preaching something these days.
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SparkedIntoLife said:
These arguments come up so much but they are fairly lazy. Not picking on you personally but let’s break this down.

Religion is the biggest killer? Seriously? I’d say greed and money come way higher on the list of perpetrating motivations. The two biggest commandments in Christianity are love God and love your neighbour as yourself. Hardly incitements to war.

This point also totally ignores all the good done through religion (I’ll speak about specifically Christianity as that is my faith). Many hospitals were started by Christians. Who runs the majority of food banks and night shelters? Churches! Christians are statistically the biggest charity givers. We do a huge amount of good in society.

As for your point about forcing their religion onto you, I’m curious what this actually looks like in your life? Because I don’t know about you but I find many Christians these days are the most shy among my friends about communicating what they stand for. Barely any of us go up to people on the street or post about our faith on Facebook. Most Christians these days are so afraid of causing offence that we stay quiet.

I’m not sure where this ‘forcing’ is going on for you? And what power does anyone, bar the government, have to force anything onto you? You’re an adult, right?

If anyone is being forceful and arrogantly self righteous these days, it’s the atheist evangelists like many in this thread. Everyone is preaching something these days.
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I appreciate your response and want to state again like I said at the end of my last post, I have no problem with people who are religious. I have good friends who have different beliefs, I also have friends like myself who don't believe any of it.

Money and greed are a large part of modern day issues, but religion dates back well before corporate life. The number of civil wars & killings in the name of god/Jesus/Allah dates back long before any of us here.

I know that a lot of these are people who take it all a step to far and take the words of the holy book to extreme lengths, but it still stands as the same thing, they are still killing in the name of something in which they believe.

As for charity, yes a large number of Christians, along with other religious people give to Charity but so do people without religious beliefs. Being religious doesn't make you a good person, it is how you are that determines that.

My previous quote said "as long as they don't force it on me" this is less common now, maybe due to me growing up and being able to ignore people preaching in the streets, possible as you said it is less common for people to approach as well, but you still go to schools around the country and hear the same religious based songs in school assembly, the prayer before eating in the school canteen etc...

I appreciate people having their beliefs whatever it may be but I think it is all outdated and people take the words of a book over the feelings of a person they are face to face with.
 
religion whats point?$$$$$ Pastors drive range rovers and prophets own private jets thats the point. At the beginning it was good for keeping people in line.
 
My über religious co-worker sent me this on Facebook with the message "how's this for origins!?" because I spoke to her about the Dan Brown "Origins" book I just finished...
 
Carolina Red said:
My über religious co-worker sent me this on Facebook with the message "how's this for origins!?" because I spoke to her about the Dan Brown "Origins" book I just finished...
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Did you tell her that most life on Earth was Carbon-based and that Carbon had 6 (protons), 6 (neutrons) and 6 (electrons)?
 
Wal2Fra said:
I appreciate your response and want to state again like I said at the end of my last post, I have no problem with people who are religious. I have good friends who have different beliefs, I also have friends like myself who don't believe any of it.

Money and greed are a large part of modern day issues, but religion dates back well before corporate life. The number of civil wars & killings in the name of god/Jesus/Allah dates back long before any of us here.

I know that a lot of these are people who take it all a step to far and take the words of the holy book to extreme lengths, but it still stands as the same thing, they are still killing in the name of something in which they believe.

As for charity, yes a large number of Christians, along with other religious people give to Charity but so do people without religious beliefs. Being religious doesn't make you a good person, it is how you are that determines that.

My previous quote said "as long as they don't force it on me" this is less common now, maybe due to me growing up and being able to ignore people preaching in the streets, possible as you said it is less common for people to approach as well, but you still go to schools around the country and hear the same religious based songs in school assembly, the prayer before eating in the school canteen etc...

I appreciate people having their beliefs whatever it may be but I think it is all outdated and people take the words of a book over the feelings of a person they are face to face with.
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Thanks for an honest reply.

There’s been many motivations for war over history but the biggest contributory factor, in my view, is the sin (greed, desire for power, hatred etc.) in the human heart.

Tribalism is an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Over the years, football has been tarnished by violence between supporters. Is this the fault of the clubs? Usually not. The same applies to religion, unless the inherent teachings promote war and violence.

I can’t speak for Islam, although my impression is that it’s far from a religion of peace. Yet Christianity doesn’t encourage war against others. You might argue that the Old Testament depicts it but I would say that this needs to be looked at in its historical context. War can sometimes be justice.

The new covenant under Christ commands that we love our neighbours and even love our enemies.

Some people who claim to be Christians don’t align with the values it teaches. I’m thinking of the likes of Westboro Baptist Church etc. Are football ultras really representative of their clubs or do they use football as a pretence to be hooligans?

Far more Christians are genuinely kind and beneficial to society than not. In fact, there’s a lot of good that Christians do that is kept quiet because Jesus taught that we shouldn’t take credit for our good works.

None of this is to imply that the domain of goodness is solely occupied by Christians. Many secular organisations do amazing things. Other faith groups do wonderful things too. Yet I would say that Christianity has made an overwhelming contribution to many of the best things in society and Jesus’ teachings are still incredibly relevant and powerful today.

We’re traditionally a Christian country here in England and that legacy lives on in many of the rights, opportunities and freedoms that we benefit from today. I understand you being uncomfortable with religion being promoted in schools but increasingly this is diminishing and more choice is available.

People get outraged about Christianity being pushed onto kids. I get that but I’d argue that far worse things are being pushed onto kids with much fiercer intensity in the modern day. Just look at some of the pop music aimed at kids with some really damaging messages. We need to be vigilant about what our children at exposed to and that is part of our rights as parents.

I respect your views about it being outdated and that people get too tied up in what an old book says. Those points are fair enough. I personally believe the Bible to be nuanced and requires careful understanding (while taking into account the context it was written in and original Greek/Aramaic) but it still holds a lot of wisdom for modern life, in my view.
 
What the living feck is this monstrosity? https://www.theguardian.com/culture...awling-controversial-500m-museum-of-the-bible

--Opening next month in Washington, the Museum of the Bible cost half a billion dollars to build, spans 430,000 sq ft over eight floors and claims to be the most hi-tech museum in the world. Reading every placard, seeing every artifact and experiencing every activity would take an estimated 72 hours.

But while it is not the monument to creationism that some liberals feared, the sprawling museum has attracted scepticism over both its ideological mission and the provenance of its collection. It is the brainchild of evangelical Christian Steve Green, the billionaire president of Hobby Lobby, an arts and crafts chain that won a supreme court case allowing companies with religious objections to opt out of contraceptive coverage under Barack Obama’s healthcare law.--
 
More on this museum.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/no-objectivity-bible-museum/

Don’t expect objectivity from the new Museum of the Bible

The museum is the pet project of the Green family, the peddlers of tawdry Chinese rubbish disguised as crosses and crafts, which they mark up and sell in their Hobby Lobby stores. This is the same family that saddled the country with that awful Supreme Court decision, Hobby Lobby v. Burwell. The Greens’ biblical undertaking hit some snags along the way, including getting caught smuggling looted Iraqi artifacts, which resulted in a multimillion dollar fine and forfeiture. (Trading in these looted goods helps bankroll ISIS.) One would think that people claiming to be devout followers of Jesus could have found a better use for $500 million. For instance, that’s more than enough to cover the federal funding for the Meals on Wheels, twice, with enough left over to buy every public school student in D.C. a new iPad Pro.

The Greens have labored to put a veneer of objectivity, legitimacy, and scholarship on their creation, but, if history is any guide, they’ll have fallen far short. Back in 2014, FFRF stopped the Greens from implementing a bible course in Mustang, Okla., public schools. The problems with the class were extensive, both in subject matter and the shady attempt to implement it. As I wrote in 2014, the class “unequivocally fail to meet the legal standards required by our Constitution. The materials show a clear Christian bias, treat the bible as historically accurate and true in all respects, and make theological claims, to name but a few problems.”

The class was about preaching the bible, not teaching it objectively. The Greens wanted to indoctrinate, not educate.

The course was designed by and the copyright belonged to “the Museum of the Bible.” Jerry Pattengale was the senior editor for the failed curriculum; he’s the executive director of the “Museum of the Bible’s education initiatives.”
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There's much more in there.
 
The tithes they collect at churches across America are all tax free. I have seen pictures of the armoured cars taking all the cash to the banks. Great way to make money.
 
Has anyone been keeping up with the excuses from religious figures to defend Roy Moore's pedophilia? The line is getting thinner between some pastors on main street and Warren Jeffs. Between police defending murder and abuse in their ranks and religion making excuses for heinous acts of sexual abuse I'm skeptical of any change without a major reformation in society. Since it's a thread on religion I would like to ask a believer how they still have confidence in an institution where there is a mountain of evidence and testimony of criminal acts and abuse. Can the institution not be torn down and wiped from the face of the earth leaving your faith in your God intact?
 
I posted a link in the US politics thread with quotes from evangelical pastors defending Moore.

---break break---

When a child crushes your stance. Unfortunately, towards the end the child doesn't know the proper response would be, "But what if you're wrong? Can you admit to that?"



---break break---

Bill Nye tours the Ark Encounter

 
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MrMarcello said:
I posted a link in the US politics thread with quotes from evangelical pastors defending Moore.

---break break---

When a child crushes your stance. Unfortunately, towards the end the child doesn't know the proper response would be, "But what if you're wrong? Can you admit to that?"



---break break---

Bill Nye tours the Ark Encounter

Shocking that people can be that fecking stupid while standing in a museum of stupid.
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SparkedIntoLife said:
Thanks for an honest reply.

There’s been many motivations for war over history but the biggest contributory factor, in my view, is the sin (greed, desire for power, hatred etc.) in the human heart.

Tribalism is an unfortunate aspect of human nature. Over the years, football has been tarnished by violence between supporters. Is this the fault of the clubs? Usually not. The same applies to religion, unless the inherent teachings promote war and violence.

I can’t speak for Islam, although my impression is that it’s far from a religion of peace. Yet Christianity doesn’t encourage war against others. You might argue that the Old Testament depicts it but I would say that this needs to be looked at in its historical context. War can sometimes be justice.

The new covenant under Christ commands that we love our neighbours and even love our enemies.

Some people who claim to be Christians don’t align with the values it teaches. I’m thinking of the likes of Westboro Baptist Church etc. Are football ultras really representative of their clubs or do they use football as a pretence to be hooligans?

Far more Christians are genuinely kind and beneficial to society than not. In fact, there’s a lot of good that Christians do that is kept quiet because Jesus taught that we shouldn’t take credit for our good works.

None of this is to imply that the domain of goodness is solely occupied by Christians. Many secular organisations do amazing things. Other faith groups do wonderful things too. Yet I would say that Christianity has made an overwhelming contribution to many of the best things in society and Jesus’ teachings are still incredibly relevant and powerful today.

We’re traditionally a Christian country here in England and that legacy lives on in many of the rights, opportunities and freedoms that we benefit from today. I understand you being uncomfortable with religion being promoted in schools but increasingly this is diminishing and more choice is available.

People get outraged about Christianity being pushed onto kids. I get that but I’d argue that far worse things are being pushed onto kids with much fiercer intensity in the modern day. Just look at some of the pop music aimed at kids with some really damaging messages. We need to be vigilant about what our children at exposed to and that is part of our rights as parents.

I respect your views about it being outdated and that people get too tied up in what an old book says. Those points are fair enough. I personally believe the Bible to be nuanced and requires careful understanding (while taking into account the context it was written in and original Greek/Aramaic) but it still holds a lot of wisdom for modern life, in my view.
Click to expand...

As someone who's gone down this road before, may I warn you that you'll ultimately be frustrated banging the drum from Christ on this forum. Hearts are too hardened and you'll be drowned out simply by being outnumbered.
 
SparkedIntoLife said:
We’re traditionally a Christian country here in England and that legacy lives on in many of the rights, opportunities and freedoms that we benefit from today.
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which mostly had to be fought for against the rugged resistance by the churches across Europe, one might add...
 
McUnited said:
As someone who's gone down this road before, may I warn you that you'll ultimately be frustrated banging the drum from Christ on this forum. Hearts are too hardened and you'll be drowned out simply by being outnumbered.
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As usual, with those enthusiastically banging the drums of Jesus, they tend claim bragging rights for things they not only didn't have a part in, but actually opposed for centuries, until they saw the futility in it and made a sudden U-turn.
 
McUnited said:
As someone who's gone down this road before, may I warn you that you'll ultimately be frustrated banging the drum from Christ on this forum. Hearts are too hardened and you'll be drowned out simply by being outnumbered.
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Can't believe you gave in to being drowned out so easily to be honest. Thought you were going to be our forum chaplain for a while. Disappointing in the end.
 
Hearts are too hardened indeed. Or, as self-anointed righteous man Kirk once claimed...



Or, perhaps one allows free thought to reign over indoctrinated belief.
 
McUnited said:
As someone who's gone down this road before, may I warn you that you'll ultimately be frustrated banging the drum from Christ on this forum. Hearts are too hardened and you'll be drowned out simply by being outnumbered.
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Yes cause if you dont follow this imaginary person, you are going to this imaginary place called hell for sure.
 
MrMarcello said:
I posted a link in the US politics thread with quotes from evangelical pastors defending Moore.

---break break---

When a child crushes your stance. Unfortunately, towards the end the child doesn't know the proper response would be, "But what if you're wrong? Can you admit to that?"

Click to expand...



This is the most popular argument among religion apologists - the God of the gaps argument. If you can't prove God doesn't exist then that's evidence that he does.
 
McUnited said:
As someone who's gone down this road before, may I warn you that you'll ultimately be frustrated banging the drum from Christ on this forum. Hearts are too hardened and you'll be drowned out simply by being outnumbered.
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I enjoyed your posts, even if I don't agree with all the points myself but there is another religious discussion thread somewhere. Would be good to read more of your views on there.
 
Raoul said:
This is the most popular argument among religion apologists - the God of the gaps argument. If you can't prove God doesn't exist then that's evidence that he does.
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Yep. And the fundamental flaw there in that argument is that eventually the gap that god is reduced to is so small that he’s no longer the god described by the religious texts they’re referencing.
 
"The phenomenon is being promoted in society as freedom of belief when this is totally wrong," Hamroush said.

"It must be criminalised and categorised as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions," he said.

"It is necessary to enact laws that deter people from violating the natural instincts of man and punish those who have been seduced into atheism," said Mohamed Zaki, the head of al-Azhar's supreme council for dawah.

"The deterrent must be harsh and impeding to suit this malicious call and stop this poisonous thinking from spreading among Muslims and young people,"


https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...moves-to-criminalise-atheism-amid-moral-panic

Dipshits.
 
I always wondered what religious people believe happened to all the folk that lived before their respective religions. Like the people that lived before Christ or the prophet Muhammad were born. Or even the tribal populations that exist today and haven't been exposed to this herd mentality and know nothing of religion. Do they all go to hell? Is there no salvation for them?
 
van der star said:
I always wondered what religious people believe happened to all the folk that lived before their respective religions. Like the people that lived before Christ or the prophet Muhammad were born. Or even the tribal populations that exist today and haven't been exposed to this herd mentality and know nothing of religion. Do they all go to hell? Is there no salvation for them?
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To widen the question a little bit, when did souls come into the equation? We are, after all, offspring of offspring going all the way back to single cell organisms. Did neanderthals have souls? If not, do the people with neanderthal DNA only have 98% of a soul? If souls were suddenly granted to humans, at which point? Did everyone of the species get a soul? Or were soulless parents giving birth to babies with souls? When humans and neanderthals were banging did their babies have half a soul?
 
Silva said:
To widen the question a little bit, when did souls come into the equation? We are, after all, offspring of offspring going all the way back to single cell organisms. Did neanderthals have souls? If not, do the people with neanderthal DNA only have 98% of a soul? If souls were suddenly granted to humans, at which point? Did everyone of the species get a soul? Or were soulless parents giving birth to babies with souls? When humans and neanderthals were banging did their babies have half a soul?
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Haven't they had religious campaigns to ban teaching evolution in the public school systems in the states? I guess that sort of answers your question, to an extent.
 
van der star said:
I always wondered what religious people believe happened to all the folk that lived before their respective religions. Like the people that lived before Christ or the prophet Muhammad were born.
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Muslims believe that Christians who lived before Muhammad's prophetic mission, and Jews who lived before Christ's, had the same status in terms of salvation as those who accepted Muhammad's message. I'm not sure what they believe in regards to Jews who lived between the time of Christ and Muhammad, or to all the non-Abrahamic people in the world who never actually heard of the lines of Abrahamic prophets.
 
2cents said:
Muslims believe that Christians who lived before Muhammad's prophetic mission, and Jews who lived before Christ's, had the same status in terms of salvation as those who accepted Muhammad's message.
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And the ones who lived before religion came to be? Or the ones that live today but are disconnected from the rest of the world?
 
Silva said:
"The phenomenon is being promoted in society as freedom of belief when this is totally wrong," Hamroush said.

"It must be criminalised and categorised as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions," he said.

"It is necessary to enact laws that deter people from violating the natural instincts of man and punish those who have been seduced into atheism," said Mohamed Zaki, the head of al-Azhar's supreme council for dawah.

"The deterrent must be harsh and impeding to suit this malicious call and stop this poisonous thinking from spreading among Muslims and young people,"


https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/n...moves-to-criminalise-atheism-amid-moral-panic

Dipshits.
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This actually makes my blood boil. Live and let live, no?

I'm getting tired of religious nutjobs that want to ram religion down everyone's throat.
 
I've had psychic experiences and although not a fan of religions, I respect the ten commandments and my intuition tells me if you do bad things and get away with it you won't enjoy the next life.
 
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