Unbiblical concept, Penna. Makes a mockery of the Lord's salvation. That will be thrown into the fire along with the rest of Roman Catholic tradition.
Religion, what's the point?
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Unbiblical concept, Penna. Makes a mockery of the Lord's salvation. That will be thrown into the fire along with the rest of Roman Catholic tradition.
So it's one rule for them, another for me?
Because I don't know God to be real either. I'm open to the possibility, but that doesn't explain why I have to have faith and others don't. Tribesman haven't been conditioned like we have to even have a concept of heaven and hell, so why and how would they seek it anyway?
Thought so. Does having two non-religious parents who refused to raise me and my siblings in a religion count, or do we have our passes revoked the moment the teacher asked us to pray in assembly?
You seem to judge a lot don't you? For example you hope not to share heaven with tribesmen who don't believe what you do, surely you should take a look at yourself and wonder what God would think of that?
Don't listen to the Roman Catholic Church as any kind of authority when it comes to theology, Red; it's a church based on man's traditions and so it's full of that kind of babble. (I'll answer your other questions in a moment.)
And I look forward to hearing you out.
I do judge a lot. The Bible doesn't teach against judging. I am to judge all things, approving what is true and scorning what is not.
Jesus was all about judgement after all.
And what if I told you that I genuinely believe that if there is a God and a Heaven that he'll judge me by his own standards and not by mans, and that since man wrote the bible and man is infinitely fallible, I'm better off living my life in the way I see fit since that is what God wants of me and is clearly what he gave me free will for.
Do you judge me for that?
It's surprising that there are no derogatory remarks about Pythogoras, Archimedes, etc. then on this thread...
I was referring to the way Herman reads the bible. According to him Genesis knows more the the thousands of scientists who tell us the world is billions of years old and evolution definitely happened. The only answer you'll get from him is "the bible.."But there is now. Why would an omnipresent god choose the worst possible time to send out a message? To test us? Maybe, but then why the free will at all?
More importantly, why am I being tested whilst some tribesman is not? It's mean
Are you sure Herman?
Matthew 7:1-3King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
I know mate, I was playing on it a little
But it's the question that interests me most on this subject that I was hoping the likes of Herman or Oates/Penna could help find an answer too. Why are we all judged differently, and doesn't that then render any kind of holy book and religion totally unnecessary?
I've outlined various reasons for my faith in previous posts in this thread. The new testament grew out of a culture where the early Christian Church was persecuted severely. If the intention was to control a population, then it would have been a better idea to get out of the Church.
The Bible is old. Many parts of it are much older than others, too. We tend to think of ourselves as the focal point of human history, but the Biblical narrative doesn't operate with such an assumption in mind. For example, 700 years went by between the prophet Isaiah and the Lord Jesus Christ. From Christ, wind the clock back to the patriarchs and you can see that the narrative is one that spans a long period of history. It's not finished to this day, either, because the book of Revelation, along with prophecies in the old testament, reveal things which are happening today and contain a promise of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, when he will reign as the Davidic King the Jews expected in his first appearing.
It's not that you are thrown into hell for not going against your own free will, it's that you go to hell for choosing to do evil. Those who misinterpret the Bible consistently usually have an agenda which isn't to serve Christ.
Those questions become irrelevant when you consider that the bible is a fairy tale. It doesn't deserve to be taken seriously, only mocked. Asking them will only get you absurd answers which make about as much sense as a guy living in a fish for three days.I know mate, I was playing on it a little
But it's the question that interests me most on this subject that I was hoping the likes of Herman or Oates/Penna could help find an answer too. Why are we all judged differently, and doesn't that then render any kind of holy book and religion totally unnecessary?
That is preaching against hypocritical judgement. If I am a paedophile, I need to give up my paedophilia before I can criticise or be of any use to somebody who has a problem with inappropriate language. Once again, oates, applying scripture incorrectly.
But there isn't a definition of evil.
For example, do you believe in Empathy and is it important to your religious beliefs do you think?
Saramago (Portuguese nobel prize) on Genesis: "God created the world in 6 days. At the 7th he rested. Until today. Hasn't done a thing since."
Lazy fecker.
Lazy fecker.
Nope, people will say they went with the best available evidence at the time even if everything turns about to be wrong. Creationists and those that still deny evolution as a scientific fact will be looked at as people who didn't go with the best available evidence and refused to admit that religious scripture was wrong about scientific questions.
On which part of the bible it says you can/should judge behaviours if you are not to blame of the same? It seems a rather convenient interpretation on your part.
How does one simply 'give up' paedophilia though? Isn't that like asking you to just 'give up' your faith?
I.E, why if we have free will, do we still have to have faith in something which constantly reminds us that if we don't follow his path, we will be treated like said paedophiles? In fact, what is the bible's definition of a paedophile anyway, who set the law to 16 over here?
Anything which falls short of the perfect holiness of the Lord is evil, Red. There's a concept called perfection in love within the Christian faith. Evil comes out of an imperfection in love. Sin is missing God's standard.
I believe in empathy.
Well it seemed to me to be quite clear Herman, you said the Bible did not teach against judging. And yet there was text there in the Bible, plain as day for all to see. And Jesus did not qualify it, he meant ALL Herman. I hope I'm not being personal here Herman, I don't want to upset you again.
Hey guys, the way to be good is to follow in the path of a genocidal madman.
1 Corinthians 2:15 "The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."
This is a repeated mantra throughout scripture. The judge not teaching only appears to correct hypocritical judgement.
Yet you freely admit that the bible is an interpretation of god's word right?
So what if you are wrong, what if those cannibal tribesman are right? You still will get into heaven for living a good life right?
You didn't answer the second part of my question, how does the concept of Empathy work in religion?
Could it be that the Bible has... contradictions?
The bible's perfect man. That's why you're supposed to ignore most of it.
Has anyone asked Herman about dinosaurs yet? Would be interesting to see his response (he's got me on ignore so someone else do it)
I find it interesting having this conversation though, and although I'm a generally very sarcastic person, here I'm being straight because it's not often someone like Herman comes along and genuinely seems to be willing to try to help.
I think the bible is a collection of stories yes, if there was a 'jesus' it's very likely he was a great storyteller - a pop star of his time if you will. But I also think it's been used to twist minds and control people by man made religions too. However there's no denying it's historical value and that good has come from it as well as much evil.
The Bible isn't an interpretation of God's word, but people interpret the Bible. The two are logically distinct. Christians have always said that for right understanding, one's interpretation must be guided by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit... When somebody repeatedly misinterprets scripture it is either because they are an immature Christian or because they are not, in fact, a Christian indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
I am 100% confident in what I know and believe.
Empathy is an invitation to love and serve another as Christ has loved and served me.
Have you been judged?
But then logically aren't you invested in another man's interpretation of those words? After all, the bible isn't a collection of all the original words of god is it?
Empathy is an invitation to love and serve another as Christ has loved and served me.
What about those born with no empathy? They are unlikely to seek meaning and a God in the same way as normal people, even tribesmen right?
Seems so pal, seems so.
I want to get an answer of basic concepts like tribesman and empathy first. Dinosaurs and all that can wait
That's where the example of the Bereans comes in, Red. Acts 17:11 "Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."
Paul commended these Bereans and all Christians should follow their example so that they might be called "good Bereans". I believe the Bible we have today has not been altered over time in a chinese whispers fashion, Red. The manuscript evidence supports that conclusion. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a full copy of Isaiah, so we can see that the Isaiah we have today is the same as the one that was there at the time of Christ.
Well, as I said before, the Biblical understanding is that all unbelievers are unable to seek God but for the Holy Spirit's quickening.
Can you explain that last bit, Herman?
But you don't know that yourself do you? I suppose what I mean by this is you yourself can't access or even read those very original words can you?
The point being is I struggle to understand the point in a religion at all, not just yours but any, as they seem to be more about control and doing things in a way that could possibly be (though I'm not saying definitely are) altered to suit man's desires. Is that a fair concern?
I said this earlier, Grinner.
John 6 gives the most comprehensive outline for this. None can come to Christ but the father draw him. And I will raise them up on the last day. To paraphrase Jesus. Biblically, man is a rebel against God, not desiring God and not wishing to seek after him. It requires God's intervention for that person to have a change of heart and mind.
Well, it would be the same thing as any science. I don't have the means to observe an atom, but I can have good confidence that scientists have.
Your concern is legitimate. many man-made religions do in fact seek to do this and all other religions apart from Christianity will tell you what works you have to do in order to earn God's sympathy. There is none of that in Christ. In Christ, the work is finished. Christ conquered death and the forces of evil at the place of the cross and rose to new life, ensuring the resurrection from the dead to everlasting life of all those buried with him (all those whose sins are atoned for by Christ's death on the cross. The substitutionary act really does nail our old, sinful nature to the cross with Christ).