Religion, what's the point?

adexkola said:
:lol:

I know Christianity is all one big happy family now, but the reformers viewed the Catholic Church back then as the antichrist
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Not as the anti-Christ, but being of the spirit of anti-Christ, yes. There are saved Christians in the Catholic Church who are saved despite the Church and not because of what the Church teaches. Ecumenism is what you'd get if you asked Goldilocks to pick a religion. Mushy and lukewarm.

Those of us who follow Christ and read our Bibles still view the Catholic Church as a harlot (sorry Waltruate but that is literally what we think of it). So we're in the business of getting people out of it, not sitting down to a banquet consisting of Goldilocks' porridge where we'll all get life-threatening diarrhoea.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Not as the anti-Christ, but being of the spirit of anti-Christ, yes. There are saved Christians in the Catholic Church who are saved despite the Church and not because of what the Church teaches. Ecumenism is what you'd get if you asked Goldilocks to pick a religion. Mushy and lukewarm.

Those of us who follow Christ and read our Bibles still view the Catholic Church as a harlot (sorry Waltruate but that is literally what we think of it). So we're in the business of getting people out of it, not sitting down to a banquet consisting of Goldilocks' porridge where we'll all get life-threatening diarrhoea.
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In your church, do you ever use Apostle's or the Nicene Creed?
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Not as the anti-Christ, but being of the spirit of anti-Christ, yes. There are saved Christians in the Catholic Church who are saved despite the Church and not because of what the Church teaches. Ecumenism is what you'd get if you asked Goldilocks to pick a religion. Mushy and lukewarm.

Those of us who follow Christ and read our Bibles still view the Catholic Church as a harlot (sorry Waltruate but that is literally what we think of it). So we're in the business of getting people out of it, not sitting down to a banquet consisting of Goldilocks' porridge where we'll all get life-threatening diarrhoea.
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I feel genuinely happy -- not sorry the Pope; not sorry all Catholics -- this is my moment is the (trolly) sun. Even as lapsed, I did my duty.

You can't be serious. I refuse to believe it.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Be careful. Not all charismatic congregations are the same. Some charismatic churches have built up strange doctrine surrounding speaking in tongues even claiming that it is necessary for Spirit baptism. That is absolutely not the position of the church I attend or any new frontiers churches.
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Sorry, I threw caution to the wind the moment you started tossing the word fool around based off my chiming in ONCE in this discussion.

No glossolalia? Good for you, because that's preposterous as all hell. There's still no shortage of entertainment on show in this thread, though. Harlot church, pfft.
 
Waltraute said:
I feel genuinely happy -- not sorry the Pope; not sorry all Catholics -- this is my moment is the (trolly) sun. Even as lapsed, I did my duty.

You can't be serious. I refuse to believe it.
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Have a look at Revelation 17. The harlot rides the beast. (I hope for the best but expect the pornographic jokes to flow, so now I've planted and watered the seeds I'll move swiftly on.)

The Catholic Church certainly fits the bill as she has been the most persecuting church in history. John describes her in Revelation as being drunk with the blood of the saints. Between 1227 and 1492 the persecution by the Catholic Church of Christians makes the first three centuries of Roman persecution of the early Church look mild.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Have a look at Revelation 17. The harlot rides the beast. (I hope for the best but expect the pornographic jokes to flow, so now I've planted and watered the seeds I'll move swiftly on.)

The Catholic Church certainly fits the bill as she has been the most persecuting church in history. John describes her in Revelation as being drunk with the blood of the saints. Between 1227 and 1492 the persecution by the Catholic Church of Christians makes the first three centuries of Roman persecution of the early Church look mild.
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I'm a United supporter. I rode the beast in Barcelona!
 
fishfingers15 said:
In your church, do you ever use Apostle's or the Nicene Creed?
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I haven't heard it recited in my church. Are you paying particular attention to the "Catholic" bit? That simply means Universal as it reflects the orthodox belief that the Gospel was to be preached in fullness to the whole world not just to some select group. It's not synonymous with the Catholic Church today.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Not as the anti-Christ, but being of the spirit of anti-Christ, yes. There are saved Christians in the Catholic Church who are saved despite the Church and not because of what the Church teaches. Ecumenism is what you'd get if you asked Goldilocks to pick a religion. Mushy and lukewarm.

Those of us who follow Christ and read our Bibles still view the Catholic Church as a harlot (sorry Waltruate but that is literally what we think of it). So we're in the business of getting people out of it, not sitting down to a banquet consisting of Goldilocks' porridge where we'll all get life-threatening diarrhoea.
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Yes, I mean the institution, not the individuals. And yes, some Protestants view the Catholic Church as the harlot from Revelation, others don't care that much about the origins of what they feed into every Sunday... that's not to say Protestantism didn't fall off the wagon a few centuries ago...
 
adexkola said:
Yes, I mean the institution, not the individuals. And yes, some Protestants view the Catholic Church as the harlot from Revelation, others don't care that much about the origins of what they feed into every Sunday... that's not to say Protestantism didn't fall off the wagon a few centuries ago...
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Well, that's true. God always has a remnant, though. The problem is when you start to care more about church attendance figures than the truth. While the Roman Catholic Church can be said to be the harlot, much of the protestant Church is looking like that of Laodicea.
 
If God doesn't want me to stare at naked ladies, then I don't really wanna be friends with him.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Well, that's true. God always has a remnant, though. The problem is when you start to care more about church attendance figures than the truth. While the Roman Catholic Church can be said to be the harlot, much of the protestant Church is looking like that of Laodicea.
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Yep. Forget the lukewarm nature... get your doctrine straight. Protestantism is a fractured entity nowadays. Luther, Calvin et al would be rolling in their graves right now

For someone that reads their Bible a lot, I'm surprised about how your belief is linked to your strong support for Israel, as they have been stripped of their special status, according to various portions in the New Testament...
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
I haven't heard it recited in my church. Are you paying particular attention to the "Catholic" bit? That simply means Universal as it reflects the orthodox belief that the Gospel was to be preached in fullness to the whole world not just to some select group. It's not synonymous with the Catholic Church today.
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Can I get a witness?!?

Oh, Come on you faithful, all joyful and trimphant, gather around while I blow my own trumpet!
 
Rykker_4united said:
If God doesn't want me to stare at naked ladies, then I don't really wanna be friends with him.
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Your wife (or future wife if you don't have one), doesn't want you staring at naked ladies either but you're not withholding friendship (or potential friendship) with her. Not fair. :nono:
 
Rykker_4united said:
If God doesn't want me to stare at naked ladies, then I don't really wanna be friends with him.
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I'm with you mate. That's why I'm hoping that if there is a god, that god is Crom...

...He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?
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Naked bitches... that's what.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Your wife (or future wife if you don't have one), doesn't want you staring at naked ladies either but you're not withholding friendship (or potential friendship) with her. Not fair. :nono:
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I think my wife (if it were to be my current girlfriend) would be very accepting of me watching pornography, as she is not a cyborg and understands that the majority of men do it, even after they are married. In fact, she also watches it and that includes the naked ladies (bloody heathen, she should be stoned in the streets imo).
 
Rykker_4united said:
I think my wife (if it were to be my current girlfriend) would be very accepting of me watching pornography, as she is not a cyborg and understands that the majority of men do it, even after they are married. In fact, she also watches it and that includes the naked ladies (bloody heathen, she should be stoned in the streets imo).
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Now things are getting interesting - spill the gospel.
 
adexkola said:
Yep. Forget the lukewarm nature... get your doctrine straight. Protestantism is a fractured entity nowadays. Luther, Calvin et al would be rolling in their graves right now

For someone that reads their Bible a lot, I'm surprised about how your belief is linked to your strong support for Israel, as they have been stripped of their special status, according to various portions in the New Testament...
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Ah, replacement theology has much to answer for. The promises for Israel were never revoked. What happened was that the gentiles were grafted in. The Church didn't replace the root. We've been brought near to the commonwealth when we were far off. we haven't replaced it. There are far too many scriptures to go to for me to make my full case here but Romans 11 (the back end of a lengthy discussion concerning Israel and the Israel within Israel, blah blah, I am sure you know) really does seal the deal in and of itself. So consider this from Romans 11:25-33:

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."

Notice here that "Israel" cannot be replaced with "Church" and the text still retain its meaning.
 
Rykker_4united said:
I think my wife (if it were to be my current girlfriend) would be very accepting of me watching pornography, as she is not a cyborg and understands that the majority of men do it, even after they are married. In fact, she also watches it and that includes the naked ladies (bloody heathen, she should be stoned in the streets imo).
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I wouldn't say that; you both need Christ, not stoning.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Ah, replacement theology has much to answer for. The promises for Israel were never revoked. What happened was that the gentiles were grafted in. The Church didn't replace the root. We've been brought near to the commonwealth when we were far off. we haven't replaced it. There are far too many scriptures to go to for me to make my full case here but Romans 11 (the back end of a lengthy discussion concerning Israel and the Israel within Israel, blah blah, I am sure you know) really does seal the deal in and of itself. So consider this from Romans 11:25-33:

"Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."

Notice here that "Israel" cannot be replaced with "Church" and the text still retain its meaning.
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I had no idea the train of thought had an official title, "replacement theology". I learned something new again...

Romans 11 is a classic, and you conveniently ignore the fact that prior to the grafting on, some branches were broken off, due to "unbelief". Unbelief in what? Answer that question, relate that to the absence of the christian christ in modern day judaism and israel, and you'll find my bewilderment. Paul who wrote that chapter, wrote many more verses discarding the notion that the jewish nation held a special place in christianity after their rejection of christ and the apostles. Not that the apostles didn't give the jews a chance; stephen's stoning and death occurred about 3.5 years after jesus's crucifixion. That was the trigger for the apostles saying... "feck it" and escaping with the message to the gentiles.

Edit: christianity is grounded in judaism, no escaping it. Which is the grafting explained, as christianity is (theoretically) the embodiment of all the lessons in the OT. A fact most christians forget nowadays as they sport their nifty portable new testament bibles... ugh.
 
adexkola said:
I had no idea the train of thought had an official title, "replacement theology". I learned something new again...

Romans 11 is a classic, and you conveniently ignore the fact that prior to the grafting on, some branches were broken off, due to "unbelief". Unbelief in what? Answer that question, relate that to the absence of the christian christ in modern day judaism and israel, and you'll find my bewilderment. Paul who wrote that chapter, wrote many more verses discarding the notion that the jewish nation held a special place in christianity after their rejection of christ and the apostles. Not that the apostles didn't give the jews a chance; stephen's stoning and death occurred about 3.5 years after jesus's crucifixion. That was the trigger for the apostles saying... "feck it" and escaping with the message to the gentiles.
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Absolutely, i don't deny what Paul refers to as the "partial hardening". Spiritually, the Israel of today is very secular and not Christian. The favour of God did indeed turn to the gentiles but as Paul outlines in his discourse, this pattern is not fixed forever. The Jewish people were gathered in unbelief and returned to their homeland so that Zechariah 12-14 could happen. You should read those chapters if you want a picture of what the Bible paints for the last days.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Absolutely, i don't deny what Paul refers to as the "partial hardening". Spiritually, the Israel of today is very secular and not Christian. The favour of God did indeed turn to the gentiles but as Paul outlines in his discourse, this pattern is not fixed forever. The Jewish people were gathered in unbelief and returned to their homeland so that Zechariah 12-14 could happen. You should read those chapters if you want a picture of what the Bible paints for the last days.
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I always stumbled over these chapters because the abundance of messianic prophecies in Zechariah and references to other tribes in Israel (where the feck are the Asherites today?) made it almost illogical for me to attach any time reference to those prophecies. It does explain your support for Israel though. Partially.

Good chat, this takes me back.
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
Your wife (or future wife if you don't have one), doesn't want you staring at naked ladies either but you're not withholding friendship (or potential friendship) with her. Not fair. :nono:
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lol... I just have to be petty and chime in on this one as well, you're dead wrong. In fact, my wife is likely to point out a nice rack to me, so there's hope for Rykker to find his non cyborg, as he puts it ;)
 
Herman Van Rompuy said:
That's what that women's lib rubbish did to women. The motto is: no blushes are too sacred. :lol:
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What, it allowed them to not feel ashamed about perfectly human, ubiquitous urges? As opposed to theology, which states that God gave us lust, and that we should feel conflicted and screwed up over it?

Yeah, lol indeed.
 
Eriku said:
What, it allowed them to not feel ashamed about perfectly human, ubiquitous urges? As opposed to theology, which states that God gave us lust, and that we should feel conflicted and screwed up over it?

Yeah, lol indeed.
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Alright, I was baiting with that one. But you know what they say, a good joke always contains an element of truth. :smirk: This is by far the best smiley on here, by the way.
 
Eriku said:
lol... I just have to be petty and chime in on this one as well, you're dead wrong. In fact, my wife is likely to point out a nice rack to me, so there's hope for Rykker to find his non cyborg, as he puts it ;)
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Well you're wife is obviously a witch, Eriku. I bet if you weigh her she's the same weight as a duck.
 
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