Religion, what's the point?

[Stanzin Lama]

That's what that women's lib rubbish did to women. The motto is: no blushes are too sacred.

First other religions, then Christians themselves, and now women. One thing I know Herman is that any person unaware of the idea of Christianity would deem what you preach extremely offensive, and your God who allows sin and hatred just so that others can fulfill his wish for love for him extremely distasteful. Of course I am sure that in no way deters you, but you are a preacher and I am sure you would like more people to join your faith, as is the way of Christianity, but if they understand what you offer, then its not going to be easy for you.

 

[fishfingers15]

Pope is the chief harlot then?

He's the anointed one Herman, why do you speak ill of him? Look at David and how he spared Saul.

 

[oates]

Quick poll if no-one minds?

How many of you have been converted by Herman last night?

Grateful.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

ISIS are a bit crude; my weapon's the word of God.

But the motivation is the same?

 

[Silent_Running]

Quick poll if no-one minds?

How many of you have been converted by Herman last night?

Grateful.

He just sounds completely deluded and brainwashed to me, as all religious people do.

 

[predator]

@Herman Van Rompuy
What are your beliefs regarding Ed Woodward?

 

[oates]

He just sounds completely deluded and brainwashed to me, as all religious people do.

We're all deluded by something SR.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

First other religions, then Christians themselves, and now women. One thing I know Herman is that any person unaware of the idea of Christianity would deem what you preach extremely offensive, and your God who allows sin and hatred just so that others can fulfill his wish for love for him extremely distasteful. Of course I am sure that in no way deters you, but you are a preacher and I am sure you would like more people to join your faith, as is the way of Christianity, but if they understand what you offer, then its not going to be easy for you.

Then you know, so why do you trouble me?

But the motivation is the same?

You just sound sour, Stanzin.

@Herman Van Rompuy
What are your beliefs regarding Ed Woodward?

Man after my own heart. Manages to get the Caf in a calamitous state on an almost daily basis.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

Then you know, so why do you trouble me?



You just sound sour, Stanzin.



Man after my own heart. Manages to get the Caf in a calamitous state on an almost daily basis.

How have I troubled you? You are disrespectful towards others' faith, and women's right, and that is reason enough for any one to raise their eyelids. In fact, if disrespecting human rights isn't a sin I don't know what else is. And you deflected my question on ISIS. Isn't the motivation same? Its a genuine question.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Quick poll if no-one minds?

How many of you have been converted by Herman last night?

Grateful.

I dumped my girlfriend so I could find christ not actually.

 

[Stick]

I dumped my girlfriend so I could find christ not actually.

He's going to be where you last look!

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

How have I troubled you? You are disrespectful towards others' faith, and women's right, and that is reason enough for any one to raise their eyelids. In fact, if disrespecting human rights isn't a sin I don't know what else is. And you deflected my question on ISIS. Isn't the motivation same? Its a genuine question.

My comment on women was a joke and you only say I am disrespectful towards other religions for stating my views strongly when others have expressed similarly strong comments about my own religious views. I don't feel as though I've behaved badly towards other faiths by criticising them. I am a born-again Christian. You will not find mushy Christianity with me. You'll find the red hot, passionate version. It is in fact out of respect for you and every other person that I don't dilute my views. It means I take you seriously enough to be forthright with you. I don't have to go to the lengths I do to make my case and though you might say I win no allies with my approach, I have the satisfaction of knowing that you are at least interested. People wouldn't be continually replying if they weren't intrigued in some way to hear what I have to say. Why do you want me to be another insipid, mushy peas Christian?

Respectful tolerance is being able to have a heartfelt conversation with somebody else of a totally different viewpoint and being able to disagree with one another passionately while respecting one another's right to those totally contrasting views. Tolerance should be able to look you in the eye and tell you you're wrong. When I enter a conversation, I am in it for the 12 rounds of point and counter point. This is the mark of maturity. The alternative is to peacefully desist and remove yourself from the arena, but don't tell me I shouldn't give as good as I get in conversation/debate.

Show me the boxer who fights with one hand behind is back.

If it's not obvious by this point that the intention is totally opposite to that of ISIS then there isn't much I can say. Whether you believe me or not, I want you to be saved, that's my prayer for you and everybody else who wants to have a ding dong with me. Failing that, I will have loved you with the truth, which is all I can do.

 

[Sherzad]

@Herman Van Rompuy if you preach Christianity to non believers or to those who are not religious, does it help to wash away your sins ? Or does it help you on judgment day that you tried to show 'the way' to non believers ?
We Muslims believe that, I was wondering if it's the same in your religion.
It looks like you are earning a lot 'brownie points' from your God in this thread

 

[JohnDoe]

@Herman Van Rompuy if you preach Christianity to non believers or to those who are not religious, does it help to wash away your sins ? Or does it help you on judgment day that you tried to show 'the way' to non believers ?
We Muslims believe that, I was wondering if it's the same in your religion.
It looks like you are earning a lot 'brownie points' from your God in this thread

So I'm going to hell in your worldview? Why aren't you spending all your time trying to save me and others like me?

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

@Herman Van Rompuy if you preach Christianity to non believers or to those who are not religious, does it help to wash away your sins ? Or does it help you on judgment day that you tried to show 'the way' to non believers ?
We Muslims believe that, I was wondering if it's the same in your religion.
It looks like you are earning a lot 'brownie points' from your God in this thread

No, nothing but the blood of Christ can wash away my sins. I am not earning anything by doing what I am doing. I do it because I love Jesus and I want others to know him, too.

You have an unholy god, that's why you can win his salvation by deeds done in the flesh.

 

[Sherzad]

So I'm going to hell in your worldview? Why aren't you spending all your time trying to save me and others like me?

Easy mate, I be with you In same train or whatever it is to Hell
The first step before preaching religion is to clean yourself, I mean no sins and you are totally committed to 'the way' of God. Which I am not, so really I can't judge anyone else.

 

[JohnDoe]

Easy mate, I be with you In same train or whatever it is to Hell
The first step before preaching religion is to clean yourself, I mean no sins and you are totally committed to 'the way' of God. Which I am not, so really I can't judge anyone else.

Fair enough buddy, I dig that.

 

[Sherzad]

No, nothing but the blood of Christ can wash away my sins. I am not earning anything by doing what I am doing. I do it because I love Jesus and I want others to know him, too.

You have an unholy god, that's why you can win his salvation by deeds done in the flesh.

Fare enough. BTW my God is sexy and holy, I believe. Not that matter to me what you think about my religion or God, but if you really want to 'spread the word' you should not insult other peoples believes or God - I can imagine you being a Christian ISIS or something with your hardcore believes.

 

[Manchester Dan]

A chap at my door tried to claim that once everyone believes god will step in and stop war, natural disaster and evil.

Seems like a fair deal...

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

Fare enough. BTW my God is sexy and holy, I believe. Not that matter to me what you think about my religion or God, but if you really want to 'spread the word' you should not insult other peoples believes or God - I can imagine you being a Christian ISIS or something with your hardcore believes.

Just giving you the truth. How can a god be holy and yet allow sinful creatures to enter his presence? He has to be less holy than the God who won't. You're also wrong that religion is about cleaning yourself up first. Nobody can clean themselves up in the sight of God. No sin is impossible for you and me and if you don't believe that then just think about your thought life. It all comes from our own evil.

I can enter the presence of my God because I am clothed in his righteousness. I've forsaken not just sin but also my own righteousness so that I might have his. There's no mixture with the Lord. Either you put on Christ or you put on the world (by nature, your own efforts are worldly).

You can imagine what you like; my faith in Christ doesn't allow for an ISIS equivalent.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

A chap at my door tried to claim that once everyone believes god will step in and stop war, natural disaster and evil.

Seems like a fair deal...

If everybody believed in the Son of God, there wouldn't be any more war. But the theology is incorrect. God won't establish his kingdom until his second coming, no matter our efforts now.

 

[Lu Tze]

Just giving you the truth. How can a god be holy and yet allow sinful creatures to enter his presence? He has to be less holy than the God who won't. You're also wrong that religion is about cleaning yourself up first. Nobody can clean themselves up in the sight of God. No sin is impossible for you and me and if you don't believe that then just think about your thought life. It all comes from our own evil.

I can enter the presence of my God because I am clothed in his righteousness. I've forsaken not just sin but also my own righteousness so that I might have his. There's no mixture with the lord. Either you put on Christ or you put on the world (by nature, your own efforts are worldly).

You can imagine what you like; my faith in Christ doesn't allow for an ISIS equivalent.

You seem exceedingly prideful about your own righteousness, especially the presumption than you can enter his presence as you are "clothed in his righteousness". I believe the judgement as to your righteousness is His, not yours. Not that I'm a believer, but I get the gist that mortal men can't judge shit as to their own holiness...that's sorta up to the big guy upstairs, if you believe in him/it.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

You seem exceedingly prideful about your own righteousness, especially the presumption than you can enter his presence as you are "clothed in his righteousness". I believe the judgement as to your righteousness is His, not yours.

I boast in the cross of my Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Mockney]

This argument got boring and ciruclar ages ago, lets move on.

Why does God make people gay Herman?

 

[The Mitcher]

I boast in the cross of my Lord Jesus Christ.

Gaaaaay.

 

[Sherzad]

Just giving you the truth. How can a god be holy and yet allow sinful creatures to enter his presence? He has to be less holy than the God who won't. You're also wrong that religion is about cleaning yourself up first. Nobody can clean themselves up in the sight of God. No sin is impossible for you and me and if you don't believe that then just think about your thought life. It all comes from our own evil.

I can enter the presence of my God because I am clothed in his righteousness. I've forsaken not just sin but also my own righteousness so that I might have his. There's no mixture with the Lord. Either you put on Christ or you put on the world (by nature, your own efforts are worldly).

You can imagine what you like; my faith in Christ doesn't allow for an ISIS equivalent.

Well, it all started off from Adam and Eve, Adam sinned (he banged her big time) - so our existence is from a sin, no human can be clean of sins, but then there are some who accept that they sinned and try to correct it by not doing the same sin again, others carry on living. We believe God is mercy full, no matter what sins or wrong doing you can always go back to hime and he will forgive you.

As for "cleaning yourself first" if I am a priest in the eyes of community but behind closed doors I am pedophile, how can I preach and be holy ? Same goes for Muslims, if they grow beard and talk Islam but kill innocent people, how can you trust them to show you 'the way'. For that reason alone, one should understand religion and follow it truly before judging someone else or preach. It's very easy to pick and chose what suits one's needs, with religion. I have
Known people who think the same way like you (Muslims) but that doesn't make them right or they don't represent Islam in any way or shape. It's just they think they are superior to other humans/Muslims because the have beard and talk crap.. In other case some Christian dude talking crap about holy church etc..

As for 'ISIS' well clearly you dismiss all other religions and believes, there is no middle ground with you or your arguments. It's your religion or nothing. If you were living in third world country and there is a chance for you to get armed and fight for Christianity, to save the holy church, won't you do it ? If that's the only option you have.

 

[Simbo]

We're all deluded by something SR.

Thinking about that, it's probably true. There's this girl I know who I sometimes think I'd want to spend the rest of my life with. When I really think about it though, I know that's delusion. Truth is, I just want to bump uglies on a regular basis.

Could that be the same reason some people follow religion? They want something specific out of it so much that they don't put enough thought into all the bullshit that comes with it?

 

[oates]

Thinking about that, it's probably true. There's this girl I know who I sometimes think I'd want to spend the rest of my life with. When I really think about it though, I know that's delusion. Truth is, I just want to bump uglies on a regular basis.

Could that be the same reason some people follow religion? They want something specific out of it so much that they don't put enough thought into all the bullshit that comes with it?

Well actually I feel that would be over simplistic and stereotyping, if you believed that.

Of course in some ways I feel that people who would class themselves as atheists could be attributed the same over simplistic stereotyping.

But then I'm a christian who would freely admit that I don't know everything.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

Well, it all started off from Adam and Eve, Adam sinned (he banged her big time) - so our existence is from a sin, no human can be clean of sins, but then there are some who accept that they sinned and try to correct it by not doing the same sin again, others carry on living. We believe God is mercy full, no matter what sins or wrong doing you can always go back to hime and he will forgive you.

As for "cleaning yourself first" if I am a priest in the eyes of community but behind closed doors I am pedophile, how can I preach and be holy ? Same goes for Muslims, if they grow beard and talk Islam but kill innocent people, how can you trust them to show you 'the way'. For that reason alone, one should understand religion and follow it truly before judging someone else or preach. It's very easy to pick and chose what suits one's needs, with religion. I have
Known people who think the same way like you (Muslims) but that doesn't make them right or they don't represent Islam in any way or shape. It's just they think they are superior to other humans/Muslims because the have beard and talk crap.. In other case some Christian dude talking crap about holy church etc..

As for 'ISIS' well clearly you dismiss all other religions and believes, there is no middle ground with you or your arguments. It's your religion or nothing. If you were living in third world country and there is a chance for you to get armed and fight for Christianity, to save the holy church, won't you do it ? If that's the only option you have.

Adam didn't sin by "banging her big time" and forgiveness is only made possible by the cross, otherwise there is no acquittal because God is a righteous judge. God's mercy cannot negate his holiness and his holiness cannot negate his mercy or he is either not holy or not merciful. That is why the cross is necessary and the only means of redemption.

Paedophile is an extreme example. Leaders within the Church are supposed to be of a certain character but you won't find anyone who is sinless. God uses flawed individuals, otherwise he wouldn't use anyone at all. You cannot possibly know any Muslims who think the way I do since they follow a contradictory religion to my own.

No, and it's an insideous accusation you should desist from making.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

But then I'm a christian...

I find that hard to believe since you are surprised by bold proclamation of the word and are trying to measure my success by the number of people I convert in this thread.

What denomination are you, oates?

 

[oates]

I find that hard to believe since you are surprised by bold proclamation of the word and are trying to measure my success by the number of people I convert in this thread.

What denomination are you, oates?

Herman, I was merely interested whether anyone would pipe up and say that you had changed their minds about what they believed.

Personally I try not to knock anyone's belief systems.

On the other hand I don't think I have taken from some texts the same things that you have but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

Herman, I was merely interested whether anyone would pipe up and say that you had changed their minds about what they believed.

Personally I try not to knock anyone's belief systems.

On the other hand I don't think I have taken from some texts the same things that you have but that's neither here nor there.

Then how do you proclaim the gospel? That salvation is by faith in Christ alone? And I'd be interested in knowing what those texts are so we can discuss them, if you like?

 

[oates]

Then how do you proclaim the gospel? That salvation is by faith in Christ alone? And I'd be interested in knowing what those texts are so we can discuss them, if you like?

I proclaim the gospel in my own way Herman, I'm more than happy to witness if people are genuinely interested however I've no desire to debate theology with you thanks Herman, I merely believe that Christ always demonstrated humility and kindness and that we should do likewise if we can and should always strive to. No one is perfect though.

 

[Sherzad]

Adam didn't sin by "banging her big time" and forgiveness is only made possible by the cross, otherwise there is no acquittal because God is a righteous judge. God's mercy cannot negate his holiness and his holiness cannot negate his mercy or he is either not holy or not merciful. That is why the cross is necessary and the only means of redemption.

Paedophile is an extreme example. Leaders within the Church are supposed to be of a certain character but you won't find anyone who is sinless. God uses flawed individuals, otherwise he wouldn't use anyone at all. You cannot possibly know any Muslims who think the way I do since they follow a contradictory religion to my own.

No, and it's an insideous accusation you should desist from making.

A Christian or Muslim religious person are the same, in my opinion. They suffocate you with their believes and what not, you can't breath without praising Jesus or Allah. As for the ISIS reference, it's all about the religion isn't it.
As for Adam's sin, he was told not to have that Apple or whatever damn thing it was for a reason.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

I proclaim the gospel in my own way Herman, I'm more than happy to witness if people are genuinely interested however I've no desire to debate theology with you thanks Herman, I merely believe that Christ always demonstrated humility and kindness and that we should do likewise if we can and should always strive to. No one is perfect though.

I agree with you on humility and kindness. A lot of people use the term "meek" as well with little understanding of what it actually is. I've already explained it isn't kind to allow others to go on in a delusion and that it isn't humble to withhold the truth that would otherwise bring salvation. I am glad you're willing to witness when asked and I am not asking you to witness more, I am asking how you do that without knocking anyone else's beliefs? I ask this because you seem to think I have knocked other people's beliefs in a manner which isn't very Christlike in this thread.

 

[Gee Male]

I proclaim the gospel in my own way Herman, I'm more than happy to witness if people are genuinely interested however I've no desire to debate theology with you thanks Herman, I merely believe that Christ always demonstrated humility and kindness and that we should do likewise if we can and should always strive to. No one is perfect though.

You mean that you believe living a good life and being a good person is your version of being a Christian? Well that's clearly not good enough, you either worship Christ or your damned for all eternity!

Feel free to substitute Christ for any other deity figure.

Personally, I prefer to imagine a God without an ego that needs worshipping when it comes to the whole 'saving your soul' thing. I'm guessing from your post that you are the same, but I'm not certain Herman (or the online Herman equivalent from another major religion) will agree.

 

[The Mitcher]

Personally I'm all for the almighty bob, who's with me?

 

[oates]

I agree with you on humility and kindness. A lot of people use the term "meek" as well with little understanding of what it actually is. I've already explained it isn't kind to allow others to go on in a delusion and that it isn't humble to withhold the truth that would otherwise bring salvation. I am glad you're willing to witness when asked and I am not asking you to witness more, I am asking how you do that without knocking anyone else's beliefs? I ask this because you seem to think I have knocked other people's beliefs in a manner which isn't very Christlike in this thread.

Well Herman, I don't know about you but I've often found that people may not be at a time in their lives or even development to be ready to, or needing to hear what someone witnessing has to say, whilst the obverse is also true, sometimes you are not in the right place or medium to hold such discussions. I certainly feel that a message board is a difficult medium to use when wishing to come across in a different way to the one you would prefer.

I often find it easier to agree more with people on certain shared concerns than to solely attack their opinions.

 

[oates]

You mean that you believe living a good life and being a good person is your version of being a Christian? Well that's clearly not good enough, you either worship Christ or your damned for all eternity!

Feel free to substitute Christ for any other deity figure.

Personally, I prefer to imagine a God without an ego that needs worshipping when it comes to the whole 'saving your soul' thing. I'm guessing from your post that you are the same, but I'm not certain Herman (or the online Herman equivalent from another major religion) will agree.

Thanks for asking GM, I suppose it depends on what you see as a 'good life' really. I think there are probably many ways that you can demonstrate a bit more and in the relevant places if you like. As for your statement that you either worship Christ or you are damned for all eternity I'm afraid I've known people all my life who have one time or other questioned their faith or how to follow it but something has always reassured me that I was told when I was younger and that was that once you've found Christ, he never lets you go! I often rely on that, maybe a bit too often tbh.

 

[Herman Van Rompuy]

Well Herman, I don't know about you but I've often found that people may not be at a time in their lives or even development to be ready to, or needing to hear what someone witnessing has to say, whilst the obverse is also true, sometimes you are not in the right place or medium to hold such discussions. I certainly feel that a message board is a difficult medium to use when wishing to come across in a different way to the one you would prefer.

I often find it easier to agree more with people on certain shared concerns than to solely attack their opinions.

There are a few points here, oates. The first is that the listener might be in the wrong place to hear the gospel. I would say that nobody is in the right place to hear the gospel before they hear it, and that's why it's so important they do. As you know, the gospel is a stumbling block to those who don't believe.

The other point is that the place might not be right for the gospel to be proclaimed. I remember walking through a busy city centre with two Christian friends and we passed by a man who was handing out Christian leaflets and a woman who was shrieking at the top of her lungs: "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand!" Over and over she cried this out. One of my friends made a comment about how awful it sounded and how it would scare him away if he was an unbeliever, and I said, but it would have stayed in your mind for a long time, still (I can picture it so clearly now and because of her sincere conviction, the words would have been deeply troubling had I not already believed. I praise God for that woman because she has the bravery to do something I know I'd be too timid and afraid of embarrassment to do). The point is, it's not my friend's job to criticise that woman's honest heart cry for sinners to repent just as it isn't my job to criticise you for not doing the exact same thing she was. But by the same token, it isn't for you to criticise my style of preaching if it is not contrary to the word and Spirit of God, which I feel you were in some of your comments to me.

Point taken about message boards. I agree, again. But I am not in the practise of criticising the tools God has given me. I see message boards as just one way of conveying the gospel. Just as books are one way of conveying a story. It's not the medium that's important but the substance.