I enjoy both styles. On form Ronnie's a joy to watch but tactical battles can be good fun. Some players do occasionally take the piss though.
Redcafe Snooker
- Thread starter Ronnie O'Sullivan
- Start date
I enjoy both styles. On form Ronnie's a joy to watch but tactical battles can be good fun. Some players do occasionally take the piss though.
Hearne always strikes me as someone who hasn’t actually played the game himself and has little knowledge of the nuances of it.
While I appreciate that not everyone likes to see a player scratching his head for a whole minute and weighing up the angles and options various times, it’s not certain that if they speed up, the game will unlock and the breaks will start rolling in. As often as not you’re going to get ugly frames where colours are pushed onto cushions and even more boring generic safeties are played with players looking to put the white against the balk cushion and distance to the nearest red.
There are players who abuse it and try to bore the shite out of their opponent. I thought Ebdon was out of order about a decade ago when he was taking 2 or 3 minutes for the most obvious of shots and nipping off the the loo whenever allowed. I think it was Ronnie he was playing and he was just fecking with his head.
Actual match play is fascinating though. Watching someone like Higgins or dare I say it Selby and really focusing on what they’re actually doing and why, the shots they choose, the angles they cover, the pots they refuse.
The last thing snooker needs is to lose that. You need that side of the game to give contrast to the O’Sullivan’s.
While I appreciate that not everyone likes to see a player scratching his head for a whole minute and weighing up the angles and options various times, it’s not certain that if they speed up, the game will unlock and the breaks will start rolling in. As often as not you’re going to get ugly frames where colours are pushed onto cushions and even more boring generic safeties are played with players looking to put the white against the balk cushion and distance to the nearest red.
There are players who abuse it and try to bore the shite out of their opponent. I thought Ebdon was out of order about a decade ago when he was taking 2 or 3 minutes for the most obvious of shots and nipping off the the loo whenever allowed. I think it was Ronnie he was playing and he was just fecking with his head.
Actual match play is fascinating though. Watching someone like Higgins or dare I say it Selby and really focusing on what they’re actually doing and why, the shots they choose, the angles they cover, the pots they refuse.
The last thing snooker needs is to lose that. You need that side of the game to give contrast to the O’Sullivan’s.
Asshole.
The World Snooker website records the average shot time or 'AST' for each match as it is on-going and most of the players are hovering between 22-24 seconds, and I think that's fine.
Bearing in mind that snooker has survived in its current form with a World Championship for a century, and demand for tickets is on the increase. Putting players on the clock is the kind of thing you'd expect him to do to try and save the sport but at the moment there's no need and it would ruin the game.
Also for people that do like super fast snooker - and I still think it's the minority of proper fans - they have the Shootout which Hearn has made a ranking event, presumably while drunk or high.
I agree with @Pexbo it's fascinating to see the top players thinking 2/3/4 shots ahead, it's a game of skill and concentration and to just say it needs speeding up is ludicrous.
Back to matters at the Crucible and despite the absence of Selby and O'Sullivan there's 4 cracking quarter-finals starting today!
Mark Allen v Kyren Wilson
John Higgins v Judd Trump
Ding Junhui v Barry Hawkins
Mark Williams v Ali Carter
On form I fancy Higgins, Ding (he would be my banker of the round, so will probably lose now!) and Williams. The top match, a repeat of the Masters final is not so easy to call. I've said for a long time I think Kyren Wilson will win the World Championship one day, he has a very good all around game and is quite strong mentally. He won't be flustered if he goes behind early, I think that is the match to watch.
I suspect it will be a bit after the Lord Mayors Show for Carter having beaten Ronnie, a bit like Perry beating Selby then going out in round 2.
Bearing in mind that snooker has survived in its current form with a World Championship for a century, and demand for tickets is on the increase. Putting players on the clock is the kind of thing you'd expect him to do to try and save the sport but at the moment there's no need and it would ruin the game.
Also for people that do like super fast snooker - and I still think it's the minority of proper fans - they have the Shootout which Hearn has made a ranking event, presumably while drunk or high.
I agree with @Pexbo it's fascinating to see the top players thinking 2/3/4 shots ahead, it's a game of skill and concentration and to just say it needs speeding up is ludicrous.
Back to matters at the Crucible and despite the absence of Selby and O'Sullivan there's 4 cracking quarter-finals starting today!
Mark Allen v Kyren Wilson
John Higgins v Judd Trump
Ding Junhui v Barry Hawkins
Mark Williams v Ali Carter
On form I fancy Higgins, Ding (he would be my banker of the round, so will probably lose now!) and Williams. The top match, a repeat of the Masters final is not so easy to call. I've said for a long time I think Kyren Wilson will win the World Championship one day, he has a very good all around game and is quite strong mentally. He won't be flustered if he goes behind early, I think that is the match to watch.
I suspect it will be a bit after the Lord Mayors Show for Carter having beaten Ronnie, a bit like Perry beating Selby then going out in round 2.
Have to agree with you. I appreciate a century, sure, but I much prefer to watch tactical play. Is there anything better in this sport than winning a frame after you need a snooker or two? As Pexbo says, it's fascinating to watch the tactical players at work.
Some cracking matches today. I'd really like to see someone win their first title, so I'm going to be rooting for Ding.
One thing I like almost the most is players being behind by more than points on table, and chasing snookers. Getting opponent in snooker, and opponent escaping...it can be thrilling.
31 seconds is actually pretty rapid for Ebdon.
I image Hearne just doing it in the hope of getting people talking.
Trump is such a frustrating player to watch. So much ability but questionable mentality and shot selection. He just doesn't look mature enough to be world champion or beat Higgins for that matter.
It's the mental side of his game which lets him down. He has scraped through his first 2 matches this year despite his long potting - such an important part of his game - constantly letting him down.
If he can sort that out and concentrate he's definitely still a potential World Champion. It's in his favour that the current crop coming through, with the odd exception (Yan Bingtao) don't seem to be up to much so at the age of 28 he will have a few more cracks at it yet.
If he'd gone out to Wakelin it would have ruined him following last year when he went out to McLeod in the first round, a player who's achieved little else in the game.
If he can sort that out and concentrate he's definitely still a potential World Champion. It's in his favour that the current crop coming through, with the odd exception (Yan Bingtao) don't seem to be up to much so at the age of 28 he will have a few more cracks at it yet.
If he'd gone out to Wakelin it would have ruined him following last year when he went out to McLeod in the first round, a player who's achieved little else in the game.
Some of the comments on that video
"I heard Ebdon is playing the 2001 China open at the moment."
"Stunning!! Absolutely stunning. No other player will ever come near equalling this amazing feat - 5 minutes and 20 seconds!! The best 12 break ever!"
"Ebdon is internet explorer of snooker."
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Some of the comments on that video
"I heard Ebdon is playing the 2001 China open at the moment."
"Stunning!! Absolutely stunning. No other player will ever come near equalling this amazing feat - 5 minutes and 20 seconds!! The best 12 break ever!"
"Ebdon is internet explorer of snooker."
Stig Lauren
4 years ago (edited)
You gotta feel sorry for Ebdon's wife. Peter staring down her hole, thinks about going in balls deep, then decides against it after half an hour and plays a safety.
Gotta love how Ronnie is making it into three digits the same time Ebdon makes it into two.Ding 11-5 down to Hawkins, I don't get him bottling it everytime at this stage.
Really thought that match was going to be a close contest, but anything but. Fair play to Hawkins, he isn't playing amazingly well but he's keeping consistent - Ding has been in first in many frames, but he's making terrible mistakes and Hawkins is taking full advantage.
I thought if either player was going to get a lead like this it would be Ding. He's been playing so well, winning his matches by 7 and 9 frames whereas Hawkins has scraped through by 3 each time.
I'm not sure what's happened to Ding's game but he has to come out and win the first 4 frames before the interval to put Hawkins back under some pressure to close it out. If that happens it will be 11-9 and back in the balance.
Both players know what it takes to get to the Final however I think Ding is under more pressure because he has the whole of China and perhaps Asia waiting for a World Champion to call their own.
Kyren Wilson also looking good to go through at 11-5 up and the other 2 matches close and fingers crossed we will get a final frame shootout at some point today.
I'm not sure what's happened to Ding's game but he has to come out and win the first 4 frames before the interval to put Hawkins back under some pressure to close it out. If that happens it will be 11-9 and back in the balance.
Both players know what it takes to get to the Final however I think Ding is under more pressure because he has the whole of China and perhaps Asia waiting for a World Champion to call their own.
Kyren Wilson also looking good to go through at 11-5 up and the other 2 matches close and fingers crossed we will get a final frame shootout at some point today.
I predicted as much in this very thread but still held some hope that Ding wouldn’t go from being unstoppable to useless in the space of a single round.
Higgins behind too. It’s a waste of time calling a winner in this tournament.
Higgins behind too. It’s a waste of time calling a winner in this tournament.
Yeah very difficult to call. I was convinced Ding was going to build on his 2 great previous visits at the Crucible and Trump would struggle against Higgins. Shows what I know.
Ffs, fluke from Higgins wins draws him level at 7-7, four frames on the bounce. I reckon Judd's head will go now.
Selby and Ronnie were laying into Ding last night after the second session. Saying he doesn't work hard enough and is disinterested as he doesn't play enough events, etc. Ronnie saying he's not a Woods or Federer and can't expect to win a WC without putting in the effort required. Might be due to his inflated popularity in China that he's put himself on a pedestal? He conceded the last frame last night when he only needed 2 snookers and didn't bother playing on. Poor form.
Selby and Ronnie were laying into Ding last night after the second session. Saying he doesn't work hard enough and is disinterested as he doesn't play enough events, etc. Ronnie saying he's not a Woods or Federer and can't expect to win a WC without putting in the effort required. Might be due to his inflated popularity in China that he's put himself on a pedestal? He conceded the last frame last night when he only needed 2 snookers and didn't bother playing on. Poor form.
If Williams v Carter goes 8-8 like Higgins v Trump then the evening session could provide some really special snooker.
I agree with @Judge Red it's just an impossible tournament to call, each time a player looks good one minute he capitulates the next.
Strange that the Williams match now has back to back sessions at 2.30 and 7.00, let's hope they get the afternoon session done quickly! I'd be very surprised if Allen mounts a comeback against Wilson but then I suppose I should know better by now!
I agree with you regarding the extra effort required to win the WC, I think the same goes for Trump. It's all very well jet setting around the world winning tournaments where it's best of 7 until the final, but the Crucible is a marathon and it's where the true match players show what true dedication can do. No doubt we will be saying the same about Ding next year, he will win a match or 2 easily, get talked about as a Champion and then lose convincingly.
The knock on Trump has always been the same. He’s a good front runner and a brilliant scorer but he’s not a tough match player and he can be broken. I think Higgins levelling it from where probably means he’ll go on to win now.
On Ding, I think there’s a degree of unfairness there. I’m not quite sure he’s a good enough player - particularly mentally - to just assume he should win a World Championship at some point, even though the whole circus around him seems to demand it. There are loads of good players who are in with a shout at the Worlds every year, a number of whom are just better match players than Ding. He’s close, there’s no doubt about it, but he’s also soft. You always get chances against him and once he stops winning frames in one visit it can look a bit ragged.
On Ding, I think there’s a degree of unfairness there. I’m not quite sure he’s a good enough player - particularly mentally - to just assume he should win a World Championship at some point, even though the whole circus around him seems to demand it. There are loads of good players who are in with a shout at the Worlds every year, a number of whom are just better match players than Ding. He’s close, there’s no doubt about it, but he’s also soft. You always get chances against him and once he stops winning frames in one visit it can look a bit ragged.
In fairness to Ding he has got to a final and semi in the previous 2 years, only to be beaten by Selby who's dominated the game in the last few years. I think he's capable of winning it but he looks far too suspect after a bad frame or two. It's a tough one to call this year. I think Hawkins or Higgins are the strongest two left, with Kyren not far behind.
Wilson looks excellent, decent shout to win it.
Agreed, but consider someone like Jimmy White. 6 time runner-up - always the bridesmaid etc...
I just get that feeling when I look at Ding. And Jimmy got closer than Ding, missing the black off its spot in the deciding frame of the 1994 final, allowing Hendry to come in and clear up to win.
You could make a case that Yan Bingtao is now a good shout to win the thing before Ding does, even though he fell just short in qualifying this year.
Maybe I'm being harsh but so it's a very underwhelming world championship, still plenty time to go I guess.
Trump might have gotten away with one there.
They’ve both fallen apart a bit here.
Been a few thrashings which have lacked tension but in general it's been enjoyable. Great game going on at the moment.
Some shot on that black from trump to set up on the yellow
Fair play to Trump. Some clearance. I still think Higgins is goint to grind it out but this is great stuff.
Cmon Trump. Higgins is class but every time he misses a shot I can't help but think it's intentional after he was exposed years ago
Final frame decider!
Been a great match this. It'd be nice to see trump proceed but Higgins is very very good under pressure. You feel that with Trumps higher risk play he is more susceptible to a mistake.
Especially not in the WC, you'd think... but still, that face of his. Can't tell.
Higgins pulled out a couple of belters there.
Neither Higgins or Wilson firing on any cylinders today. Not great to watch bar a couple of interesting safety exchanges.
It’s one of those games where it feels like the constant mistakes of each player is dragging the quality of the match down and affecting the other players sharpness.
I’d like to see Wilson win but Higgins quality shines through at key times and is enough to keep him ahead right now. I can see the clock being rolled back and a Higgins - Williams final which would be bizarre as they both seemed to be finished only 12/18 months ago.
It’s one of those games where it feels like the constant mistakes of each player is dragging the quality of the match down and affecting the other players sharpness.
I’d like to see Wilson win but Higgins quality shines through at key times and is enough to keep him ahead right now. I can see the clock being rolled back and a Higgins - Williams final which would be bizarre as they both seemed to be finished only 12/18 months ago.
Wilson v Jones was a terrible match for this very reason, it's why I was shocked at the performance of Wilson against Allen!
If the two finalists are Higgins and Williams I think it should serve as a wake up call to these up and comers, realistically Wilson and Trump should have viewed this as a tournament to win once Ronnie and Selby went out, obviously Trump has already blown it yet again.
If Hawkins wins this it'll be a travesty, such a nothing player, obviously being Welsh I'd love a Williams win, but I can't see past Higgins now.
Good session and I think both players will be happy. For Wilson it was always about staying in touch with Higgins and making a late run, you don't get in front and run away from players like that. If he can go to bed tonight 13-11 down I think he will sleep alright.
It's true that a potential Higgins v Williams final would be a wake up call to the younger players, but as Ronnie has been saying all season there simply aren't that many good ones. Yan Bingtao for his age group is head and shoulders above anyone else. Wilson is 26 and Trump is 28 so how much are they likely to improve in the future?
I think you're being harsh on Hawkins. He is a very specific type of player. He lives for the intensity and longevity of match play and he's also reached the final in 2 of the last 4 ranking events so arrived here in good form. His record of 5 out of the last 6 semi-finals is very impressive. Whilst he might not be the most attractive player to watch all the time and he can get bogged down, he would be a popular winner amongst his fellow pros and most snooker fans.
It's true that a potential Higgins v Williams final would be a wake up call to the younger players, but as Ronnie has been saying all season there simply aren't that many good ones. Yan Bingtao for his age group is head and shoulders above anyone else. Wilson is 26 and Trump is 28 so how much are they likely to improve in the future?
I think you're being harsh on Hawkins. He is a very specific type of player. He lives for the intensity and longevity of match play and he's also reached the final in 2 of the last 4 ranking events so arrived here in good form. His record of 5 out of the last 6 semi-finals is very impressive. Whilst he might not be the most attractive player to watch all the time and he can get bogged down, he would be a popular winner amongst his fellow pros and most snooker fans.
That was a great safety battle on the pink, huge frame for Hawkins. Must win frame for Williams now.