Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

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Jaxdan said:
While the results aren't showing it, yet, I am watching much more entertaining football for the most part under JM than LvG. Look at the amount of shots and shots on goal we've had. It isn't the manager's tactics, its our players not finishing and some good GK work on the other side that have minimized our efforts. That's just how I see it.
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Your seeing the same as me.
 
Jaxdan said:
While the results aren't showing it, yet, I am watching much more entertaining football for the most part under JM than LvG. Look at the amount of shots and shots on goal we've had. It isn't the manager's tactics, its our players not finishing and some good GK work on the other side that have minimized our efforts. That's just how I see it.
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This. At least I'm enjoying the games now. And we appear to be getting better and playing people on merit. We just need a beast of a striker to play this way - someone with Zlatan's strength and technique but Rashford's speed and hunger. A young Drogba.
 
We have played some good and entertaining football against Stoke, Burnley, Arsenal and WHU. Off course mistakes have been done from both the manager and our players but they are all under enormous pressure.

Are we better then last season? Hell YES!! Am I 100% satisfied with Mourinho, Zlatan o Co? NO!!

But. We entertain, we create chances, we show passion. That's a very good start.
 
Biggest difference is that under Mourinho, It hurts when United lose

Under van Gaal, I stopped giving a shit
 
shamans said:
It is not foolish because we are the top 3 richest clubs in the world if I'm not mistaken. The size and resources of our club is up there with Barca and Madrid. We should be expecting a title challenge every season.
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Challenging for the title is different to winning it more often than not. Real Madrid's glory days were in the 50's (the 80's if you have lower standards).
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Biggest difference is that under Mourinho, It hurts when United lose

Under van Gaal, I stopped giving a shit
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Just sitting through our matches for 90 minutes every week was painful enough.

Honestly not exaggerating that in my 30+ years watching United I have never come as close as I did last season to falling out of love with football altogether. It was absolutely brutal. This season has been all sunshine and rainbows by comparison. Of course it helps that I'm old enough to remember life before Fergie and the possibility that the pleasure you get from watching a football team was about more than just accumulating points.

Which is kind of ironic, considering how one of the most widespread anxieties when Mourinho was hired was that our football would be dour and uninspiring to watch. So far, it's been anything but. With maybe 2 or 3 exceptions.
 
Ramshock said:
I backed LVG to the end but Jose is a better coach, having said that there is something obviously wrong with him and there has been since Chelsea last won the title.
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This is probably how I feel as well, cautiously optimistic, but can't help but feel that those who keep saying that he'll turn it around are still thinking about the Jose from a decade ago. He truly was a bit special back then, but now I see a tired, strained man.

The biggest difference between him and LVG was that Van Gaal was willing to give youth a chance, and he'd throw them into the deep end for a few matches to see how they react. Jose apparently thinks he can pass judgment on a player after watching them for 15 minutes. Sure we are playing better stuff, but signing Pogba and Zlatan was a huge lift for the club, both in the locker room and commercially. LVG never 'solved' the midfield problem. And hate his football all you want but LVG was undeniably responsible for bringing attention to the likes of Rashford, CBJ, Lingard, Fosu Mensah, etc.
 
Its been utterly fustrating watching us this season but for good reasons in that we are creating far more chances, playing more direct and quicker football and making the keepers work far more than the last 2 seasons. Watching us under LVG was painful. Constantly passing the ball sidewards between the defence and barely managing shots on goal. I dont think we have had a game this season where the opposition team has dominated us and we have gone up the other end and scored against the run of play. This happened continuosly under LVG and in the final few seasons under Fergie. I think everyone can accept we have been unlucky this season and our finishing has been atrocious but the general play has been moving in the right direction. What comes around goes around and we are due a lot soon. What we need to do is continue putting in these performances, cut out the naivity, improve our mental strength, stop feeling sorry for ourselves and cut out the fart performances like Chelsea away. Also, I dont ever want to see Felliani coming on when we're chasing a game.
 
Stupid question when his record speaks for itself, not to mention he won the premier league title what? 3 times in 4 in a bit seasons!

Jose is hands down a better manager, Jose is hands down playing better football and Jose hands down has been better in the market.

we have problems that's going to need time to mend and for us to finally stick by a manager and let him build the team in his image which takes more than one transfer window, regardless of position this season!

results and table position does not reflect our performances this season, we have been really good of late and we simply haven't taken our chances which is so frustrating, my main concern is maybe his dying loyalty to Ibrahimovic, don't get me wrong he hasn't done that bad but when he has been poor he wasn't subbed or dropped in fact he was offered another year which worries me.
I don't think Rashford is ready to lead our line and I have gone against my previous way of thinking, I now think we need a top striker in his prime IMO
There is also a lot of players who are pretty bang average and would never get into a typical Jose Mourinho team, We wanted Jose but he doesn't come with a magic wand we need to give him the resources and time to build another powerful squad like we drooled over in the past.

#IamBackingJose100%
 
JM is a far superior manager than LVG. The problem we have is that most teams have learned how to counter Jose's style of football both physically and mentally and until he figures out a new approach we are up against it. I've no doubt he will but how long that takes who knows.
 
Jose's football is 100% better than LVG.

I am loving not being bored to shit watching us again
 
Even if, this premature judgment on Mourinho as 'no better than' were to find its fulfillment, when analysied at some later stage - it still wouldn't alter the fact that at the time all the people who thought he would be better than Van Gaal had every reason to. Mourinho's credentials are just better, United really went for the best guy around this time.

That said, this exuberant embracement of our supposedly exciting new playing style is fatuous, and reminiscent of Mad Winger's love for Kagawa.
 
You're obviously a better side than last year, even if the results haven't quite shown it due to some bad finishing and very poor luck.

I'm not convinced that the difference is due to Jose rather than just adding Zlatan, Pogba, and (for a while at least) Bailly. Give LVG those three and he might be doing just as well, putting aside the personal conflicts he would have had with Ibra.

Just as LVG's sides should have been better than Moyes's team, Mourinho's sides should be better and more successful than LVG's simply based on the level of investment. If LVG was a failure and Mourinho is only moderately better than LVG then Mourinho should be considered a failure since that moderate improvement was likely to be produced by spending another 150M pounds (or whatever it was) in players no matter who the manager happened to be.
 
Snow said:
Challenging for the title is different to winning it more often than not. Real Madrid's glory days were in the 50's (the 80's if you have lower standards).
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Well I don't want glory days but with the stature of our club I expect similar dominance to Madrid, Barca, City. The current state is clearly not acceptable.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Nice straw man.

Literally not one person is claiming he's delivered the goods so far. A lot of people think we're a lot better to watch than under Van Gaal but that's a very low bar. The most optimistic consensus seems to be that he/we have been disappointing so far but there are signs of progress. That's a long fecking way short of "delivering the goods".
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TheReligion said:
Moyes delivered an atrocious brand of football and addressed none of our weaknesses in the transfer window.

That's his fault.

Any fool (well seemingly not with some of you lot) can see we are much more pleasant on the eye under Jose with a more capable squad. He's also introduced a world class midfielder, a superb centre half, a legendary striker and a creative winger. All areas the Caf wanted us to look at.

He's done 90 percent of what you lot wanted him to do. Even dropping Rooney, yet you blame the man for everything.

This place is full of agendas.
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Well a certain someone thinks 90% of what we wanted is there.
 
shamans said:
Well I don't want glory days but with the stature of our club I expect similar dominance to Madrid, Barca, City. The current state is clearly not acceptable.
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City and dominance?

The gulf between Real, Barca and the rest of Spain is massive. Every club in PL can at least spend some money.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He said he's done 90% of what people on here wanted, in terms of team selection etc. How is that even close to saying he's "delivered the goods"? If that's the best you can come up with then you've proved my point (and disproved your own)
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Quite what goods people expected to be delivered before Christmas I don't know.
 
Snow said:
City and dominance?

The gulf between Real, Barca and the rest of Spain is massive. Every club in PL can at least spend some money.
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I said similar dominance to City, i.e competing for trophies and being in the Champions League. Every PL club spending money is no excuse for us to be where we are right now. If we expect to be a club of Madrid's stature that is perfectly reasonable. We can afford to sign players like Paul Pogba. At the very least a club of our stature should guarantee a title fight.

Not to prolong this but what I am saying is a response to what you originally said about our dominant run of trophies every other year being done and we can't expect that. I don't think anyone is saying it is unacceptable for us to not be as dominating as we were the past few decades (maybe some are but not most). Those that are dissatisfied are so because we are not in our current at an acceptable level given our stature and resources.


Pogue Mahone said:
He said he's done 90% of what people on here wanted, in terms of team selection etc. How is that even close to saying he's "delivered the goods"? If that's the best you can come up with then you've proved my point (and disproved your own)
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What even was my point that I have disproved with this? First of all I think Mourinho has been better than LVG and we need to stick with him for any realistic chance of success but you need to wake up and accept that so far Mourinho's run has been quite bad. This is independent of how things "look better" and how there are "signs of progress". I agree, we are shaping up to be a better team and we are definitely making progress but up until this point it has been quite disappointing.

Regardless - done 90% of what people wanted on here? Pretty sure the prediction was that we had to mount a title challenge with the likes of Pogba, Zlatan, Miki in our team. If we take 90 percent of Chelsea's current point tally we are way short of that. If we take 90 percent of Arsenal's points tally (the furthest back club still in a position to mount a title challenge I'd say) we're still behind. This 90% point thing I'm doing here is to be taken lightly but my point is I'm pretty sure we wanted more than where we are right now.

90% of us also wanted a solid team that would instantly provide results. Now you can argue if that is reasonable or not but people wanted that and so far they haven't seen that. All I am trying to say is that people saying Mourinho has done almost everything right are kidding themselves. @TheReligion, if I'm not mistaken, said it is not Mourinho's fault that the players have let him down. Well it was clearly his decision to sign Zlatan and start him every game. I don't buy this whole "oh we're just unlucky" story either. We can't score goals freely enough and this is a flaw we are working on.
 
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned so far in this thread, but we are so much better than we were under LvG.
 
Jose needs to learn how to evolve with the times like SAF ended up having to

He has a harder job in a way, all things considered. Even though he has managed Real etc (even Benitez and unproven manager Zidane have been allowed to err 'pick' players for matches there) this is undoubtedly the biggest task he has ever had.

He's a decent manager, with a lot of experience. He has to evolve his approach to move with the times.

I like the style of football so far. That's something better than the two idiots that preceded him
 
shamans said:
Why did I lose credibility? I want us to be a club that is 1 point of the top? As for goods how about staying in the top4?
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As you mentioned Man City and dominance on a level with Barca and Real.

Mourinho has been at the club a few months. Stop moaning. Imagine if Liverpool had offloaded Klopp in the summer given unimpressive start he had at Liverpool.
 
TheReligion said:
As you mentioned Man City and dominance on a level with Barca and Real.

Mourinho has been at the club a few months. Stop moaning. Imagine if Liverpool had offloaded Klopp in the summer given unimpressive start he had at Liverpool.
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If you had the patience to read the context in which I said that I was naming a general list of top clubs. You could include Chelsea, Bayern and all other teams in that list. Hope you're happy now.

I have every right to moan. No one is offloading Mourinho but you can criticize and be dissatisfied with the manager without wanting to get rid of him. Bottom line is that for a club of our stature the current league position is not satisfactory.
 
Jesus no one is saying LVG's side is more entertaining than Jose's side. What people are trying to say here is LVG had us going in one direction & Jose had us going in another.

Jose:
Positives-
Better entertainment, better signings
Negatives-
Poor Character, not good enough results thus far, lack of tactical flexibility & not playing youth

LVG-
Negatives- poor entertainment, poor signings, not good enough results albeit winning a cup with a lot of youth played
Positives: Played youth consistently, tactical flexibility, results are better marginally, possession football is not out of date, having the ability to pass the ball and retain possession is a much harder thing to bring it to a club than counter attacking football.

Thoughts -

Jose is a manager bought for the long term with short sighted views on players with regards to their age, position & ability to keep a team tactically viable for longer than 3 years

LVG is a manager with views for the long term bought in as a short term manager, will change anything & everything including formations, positions.


As a Pro LVG guy, it's not that I hate Mourinho - it's that instead of improving on what LVG left behind ( a good base for the future) he seems to have ripped it up to start something new again.

The things we expected that he seemingly wanted to change about himself like playing youth & his general demeanor at the club has not changed one bit. If he did that then none of the pro LVG guys would have a reason to hate.
 
shamans said:
If you had the patience to read the context in which I said that I was naming a general list of top clubs. You could include Chelsea, Bayern and all other teams in that list. Hope you're happy now.

I have every right to moan. No one is offloading Mourinho but you can criticize and be dissatisfied with the manager without wanting to get rid of him. Bottom line is that for a club of our stature the current league position is not satisfactory.
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So you want to keep him but just moan and moan about it?

How productive.
 
TheSweeper said:
Jesus no one is saying LVG's side is more entertaining than Jose's side. What people are trying to say here is LVG had us going in one direction & Jose had us going in another.

Jose:
Positives-
Better entertainment, better signings
Negatives-
Poor Character, not good enough results thus far, lack of tactical flexibility & not playing youth

LVG-
Negatives- poor entertainment, poor signings, not good enough results albeit winning a cup with a lot of youth played
Positives: Played youth consistently, tactical flexibility, results are better marginally, possession football is not out of date, having the ability to pass the ball and retain possession is a much harder thing to bring it to a club than counter attacking football.

Thoughts -

Jose is a manager bought for the long term with short sighted views on players with regards to their age, position & ability to keep a team tactically viable for longer than 3 years

LVG is a manager with views for the long term bought in as a short term manager, will change anything & everything including formations, positions.


As a Pro LVG guy, it's not that I hate Mourinho - it's that instead of improving on what LVG left behind ( a good base for the future) he seems to have ripped it up to start something new again.

The things we expected that he seemingly wanted to change about himself like playing youth & his general demeanor at the club has not changed one bit. If he did that then none of the pro LVG guys would have a reason to hate.
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Not playing youth?

Rashford, Martial and Shaw have all got minutes. TFM has in the cup too.

We have a pretty young side so don't really get that or have a clue at who else you would like to see him play in the first team?
 
TheSweeper said:
Jesus no one is saying LVG's side is more entertaining than Jose's side. What people are trying to say here is LVG had us going in one direction & Jose had us going in another.

Jose:
Positives-
Better entertainment, better signings
Negatives-
Poor Character, not good enough results thus far, lack of tactical flexibility & not playing youth

LVG-
Negatives- poor entertainment, poor signings, not good enough results albeit winning a cup with a lot of youth played
Positives: Played youth consistently, tactical flexibility, results are better marginally, possession football is not out of date, having the ability to pass the ball and retain possession is a much harder thing to bring it to a club than counter attacking football.

Thoughts -

Jose is a manager bought for the long term with short sighted views on players with regards to their age, position & ability to keep a team tactically viable for longer than 3 years

LVG is a manager with views for the long term bought in as a short term manager, will change anything & everything including formations, positions.


As a Pro LVG guy, it's not that I hate Mourinho - it's that instead of improving on what LVG left behind ( a good base for the future) he seems to have ripped it up to start something new again.

The things we expected that he seemingly wanted to change about himself like playing youth & his general demeanor at the club has not changed one bit. If he did that then none of the pro LVG guys would have a reason to hate.
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. It has a lot to do with results of course, as say, we were top 3 and winning games, which with the chances were creating we should be, I could see him giving say, the last 15 mins or so to the likes of TFM, if your talking about youth from the reserves. I also think his misdemeanors on the sidelines wouldnt of happened as well.
 
Powderfinger said:
You're obviously a better side than last year, even if the results haven't quite shown it due to some bad finishing and very poor luck.

I'm not convinced that the difference is due to Jose rather than just adding Zlatan, Pogba, and (for a while at least) Bailly. Give LVG those three and he might be doing just as well, putting aside the personal conflicts he would have had with Ibra.

Just as LVG's sides should have been better than Moyes's team, Mourinho's sides should be better and more successful than LVG's simply based on the level of investment. If LVG was a failure and Mourinho is only moderately better than LVG then Mourinho should be considered a failure since that moderate improvement was likely to be produced by spending another 150M pounds (or whatever it was) in players no matter who the manager happened to be.
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VG spent £250million Mourinho £150million so that dont add up
 
The only thing wrong is were not putting the chances away. On the TV at the weekend ESPN reckoned Ibra has had 63 chances to score this season, but only scored 7 times. In 60 chances with PSG he scored 18 times. If he had of done that here we would of probably of been above Arsenal in 4th spot 3 points off the top and everyone apart from the VG lovers would of been happy.
 
wolvored said:
VG spent £250million Mourinho £150million so that dont add up
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I see what you mean but it literally add up. It's not as if LVG's investment disappeared when Mourinho signed.
 
RedCoffee said:
JM is a far superior manager than LVG. The problem we have is that most teams have learned how to counter Jose's style of football both physically and mentally and until he figures out a new approach we are up against it. I've no doubt he will but how long that takes who knows.
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I disagree with this.
I haven't seen any team we have played in the league able to nullify us.
Against Burnley for example, we utterly dominated them. Their GK played the game of his life - a one off performance. Same with Stoke. Against WHU, we beat WHU in every single stat. Against AFC, we beat them in every stat.
These teams are walking away with one point and counting themselves lucky...and so they should.
Our problem is poor finishing and the opposition GK putting in a MOTM performance; our tactics are fine.
 
TheReligion said:
Not playing youth?

Rashford, Martial and Shaw have all got minutes. TFM has in the cup too.

We have a pretty young side so don't really get that or have a clue at who else you would like to see him play in the first team?
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There's a difference between playing youth & trying to shoehorn them in. Not a single minute played by any of the youngsters have been even moderately important in their development. They have been played in the wrong position & wrong formations whilst also being dropped simply because they don't fit the style of football that Jose wants to be played.

He has one style of football. The reason shaw is easily dropped is because for example Blind has better crossing ability to get the best out of the lone striker upfront. Shaw is the better LB but it does not matter because it does not coordinate with what Jose wants.
 
JPRouve said:
I see what you mean but it literally add up. It's not as if LVG's investment disappeared when Mourinho signed.
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True. I was just talking monetary terms. I bet by next year Mourinhos gross spend will be much higher, and if it improves the team money well spent. It needs to be on the pitch not in the bank.
 
wolvored said:
True. I was just talking monetary terms. I bet by next year Mourinhos gross spend will be much higher, and if it improves the team money well spent. It needs to be on the pitch not in the bank.
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But it still adds up, if I buy a car 25k and spend 15k on it, I should expect to have a better car. You don't compare 150m with 250m but what Mourinho inherited and what he added to it.
Now, we are in late November the team could and should improve drastically during the next months, so it's not the time to analyze Mourinho's spending or decide that he isn't improving the team. The end of the season is the right time to do that.
 
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