Really not getting this 'not playing youth' argument. Strikes me as incredibly lazy. For me he's playing youth too much.
Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?
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Nice kneejerk, shite thread. feck off with your bullshit hindsight post. Mourinho is ten times the manager LvG wishes he would be. Your condescending tone regarding how LvG was the right man is fecking laughable. You wouldn't have even made this thread if we beat West Ham (which we would have with a bit more luck). Stop being edgy.
You mention Zlatan, Pogba and Bailly as the reasons for us being better than under Van Gaal, but Mourinho's the reason we got them in the first place. Herrera is less of a risk taker than Pogba is and he was not trusted by Van Gaal.
Same goes for Moyes. You can't say Moyes would have done better if he had Blind, Di Maria etc because he wouldn't have bought them in the first place.
Besides, he had Vidic, Evra and Van Persie. He was hopeless. At the risk of going off on a tangent, Moyes fecking the job up so much is the reason we've lost that fear factor and teams play us with the belief that they can get something. I can't begin to describe my disdain for the buffoon's ineptness.
I can't say if Mourinho will be successful, but LvG better? Are you really serious? or just ....
This is a fair point. Mourinho clearly is a bigger draw in player recruitment than LVG (or, obviously, Moyes) and that is part of the value he brings as a manager.
So many Jose Sycophants here!! Nobody is discounting that Jose is a top manager. The OP just pointed out that based on the result at united, LVG seems the better at getting results. Yes it’s still early days but its fine to analyze and criticize a manager’s progress. Especially when he seems in danger of missing fouth with the most expensive team on earth . Let’s not forget that this manager took a team of Champions and turned them to pure shite. So he has that ability to feck things up.
Some of you have been admiring Mourinho from a far so much that you are scared to criticize him when he is here. If I compare his first season to LVG’s first season, I have to say I enjoyed LVG’s start more. Also, I personally hate the excuses for him and his fans when we lose. It was Rooney’s fault first, then it was Mkhi’s fault, then the refs, Conte’s celebration …when will some of you stop making excuses for him? Some are still blaming LVG for our poor performances!! C’mon.
Some of you have been admiring Mourinho from a far so much that you are scared to criticize him when he is here. If I compare his first season to LVG’s first season, I have to say I enjoyed LVG’s start more. Also, I personally hate the excuses for him and his fans when we lose. It was Rooney’s fault first, then it was Mkhi’s fault, then the refs, Conte’s celebration …when will some of you stop making excuses for him? Some are still blaming LVG for our poor performances!! C’mon.
Money is the biggest draw in player recruitment and we have plenty of that.
I can't say if Mourinho will be successful, but LvG better? Are you really serious? or just ....
I remember Phil Jones taking corners, almost every player playing out of position, his love of left footed players for balance, 0-0 at ht, 1-2 chances a game then LVG saying that's all you need. Plus finally this philosophy caper that never worked.
Ok we are not where we want to be but I'll take Jose's dozen chances a game all day long. Makes the trip down from Scotland every week much more enjoyable.
LVG signings were just dreadful and we are still paying for that machine gun approach of having 3 targets for one position and not just fighting for your preferred option! Darmain, Depay, Blind, Rojo, Morgan, Bastian, ADM, Falcao, Martial, Romero. That's more than a right few bob there and they make up a good core of our squad! He was bidding apparently for the Watford centre forward and the Arsenal second choice right back ffs! Only Martial and Blind (Romero ok) have come close to justifying their price tags and that's a horrible % rate. In the process (pardon the pun) we have got rid of better players in Nani Rafael Hernandez Evans Welbeck and Fletcher! So although Jose has to deal with what he has got LVG did more damage than Moyes in my opinion.
Depay, Roho, Schneiderlin and Bastian maybe shite but they are not in the starting eleven. Martial and Blind are good players. Moreover, LVG got 4th and 5th and a trophy with that squad. Mourinho added Zlatan, Pogba,Mki and Baily. If he doesn’t get top four with that team it is his failure as a coach not LVGs fault or Mkhitaryn’s or the tea lady.
I'm sure Jose will prove a more successful manager for us than LVG. But the lack of consistency from our board is really causing us to stall IMO. There doesn't seem to be a person in charge who understand the sport or how to build a long term project. We've gone through from Moyes to Lvg to Mourinho, three managers who couldn't be further apart in their footballing filosophies. That means that every time we change the squad needs a overhaul because it's built to suit the ideas of the former manager.
If we'd gone from Van Gaal to a Stam or a De Boer then maybe we would get rolling faster, not that we'd nessecarily be any more successful in the long term but I would find it very comforting to see that there was a grander vision which we were working towards. If this pattern continues I can see us struggle as for example Chelsea struggled for a period after Mourinhos first tenure there. We'll always only be as good as our next manager who'll always suffer under the weight of his predecessors work.
I think that we could actually learn from Man City and in this regard and how they've worked toward the Guardiola appointment.
If we'd gone from Van Gaal to a Stam or a De Boer then maybe we would get rolling faster, not that we'd nessecarily be any more successful in the long term but I would find it very comforting to see that there was a grander vision which we were working towards. If this pattern continues I can see us struggle as for example Chelsea struggled for a period after Mourinhos first tenure there. We'll always only be as good as our next manager who'll always suffer under the weight of his predecessors work.
I think that we could actually learn from Man City and in this regard and how they've worked toward the Guardiola appointment.
I hope this thread will die soon.
The Jose's appointment is to bring instant success, that is obvious. And, Jose is yet to achieve that.
Well there are no titles to be won by december so I don't see how he could. No manager can guarantee instant success, but I don't want instant success I want long term success. Mourinhos football is the complete opposite of Van Gaals football, it will take time for him to assemble the parts he needs and then get them to function the way he wants them to.
Jose is not for long term success, that is for sure.
You and I have absolutely no idea if that will be the case at United. I hope he stays here for a long time, he's a brilliant manager.
I didn't see him as a long term option for us either which is one of the reasons I actually didn't want him here but he is still a relatively young manager. He could be in it for the long term if everything works out.
I strongly dislike jm, but I'd pick him 10/10 over lvg...that said, being better than Luis is setting the bar quite low.
I don't see it, since he joined United I have seen a lot more of him and he is too nervous, he is too affected by what happens around him.
Salty asfLVG wishes to be good as Jose
Do you know LVG was Jose's mentor? I doubt he would want to be as good as Jose. Some of you who then say Jose is more tactically capable than his own mentor & a manager who has played varying formations & tactics whilst uprising some of the best players of 2 & half decades - is worse than Jose simply because he splashes money on one tactic + one formation that has proved to be successful at times.. Jose's football style is old & easy to counter play these days & he cannot survive for longer than 3 years because he cannot freshen things up.
LVG always on the other hand comes in to big clubs in ruts - similar to states of clubs Jose leaves behinds and freshens them up in the right direction.
It's really what people watch football for - I watch it as a tactical sport & therefore think LVG is & proven to be quality for long term success. You may watch it for entertainment & success value - therefore Jose is your man.
Let's not tell each other who is better or worse because we all have different ways of actually watching & assessing football.
He's just taken on his dream job, which happens to be attempting to get a deeply dysfunctional mega-club back on track, immediately after a season from hell with Chelsea. Of course he'll be feeling the pressure. If he can get us back winning trophies he'll be feeling a lot better about life, that's for damn sure. If he can't, then he won't be sticking round anyway.
I can't say if Mourinho will be successful, but LvG better? Are you really serious? or just ....
LVG wishes to be good as Jose
Jose's football style is old & easy to counter play these days & he cannot survive for longer than 3 years because he cannot freshen things up.
LVG always on the other hand comes in to big clubs in ruts - similar to states of clubs Jose leaves behinds and freshens them up in the right direction.
It's really what people watch football for - I watch it as a tactical sport & therefore think LVG is & proven to be quality for long term success. You may watch it for entertainment & success value - therefore Jose is your man.
Let's not tell each other who is better or worse because we all have different ways of actually watching & assessing football.
Are you LVG's daughter? Otherwise we seem to have been watching a different season last year.
I commend your positivity but I don't think that it's linked with winning trophies. It's just his temperament, I don't think that he is made for huge clubs, Atletico would be a better fit.
No we don't have the same eyes as each other or the same brain.
I don't know how you can be so confident in your psychoanalysis. He's been chewed up and spat out by toxic clubs for whom that is the norm but was adored (and very happy) at Inter and Porto, only leaving to fulfil his own ambitions.
Manchester United would be closer in environment to these latter two clubs, only on a grander scale. If he is successful here then we've every reason to assume he'll stick around for another few years. Or at the very least, renew his contract. If he's not successful then that's not an issue.
You know that we are doing the same thing? And I'm not confident in my "psychoanalysis", I'm not even sure if adding two and two together is a psychoanalysis.
And United are closer to Real Madrid than Porto or Inter, the spotlight is the same, the ambition is the same, the weight of history is the same. At Inter, he was bigger than the club, he was the king, at United or Real Madrid he isn't, he is like any other manager but with a lot more of pressure and expectations.
That's why I said that Atletico was a better fit because it's comparable to Inter.
I literally fell asleep watching some of our games last season. The 0 shots business by HT while playing at home. Now, I am very entertained and despite not challenging at the moment, I am still enjoying the season and watching players like Pogba & Herrera, Mata linking up well and some lovely football being crafted. In that sense, it's better than LVG by far.
A lot of these games should have yielded more goals and perhaps it is a bit of bad luck, although I think it's more about players becoming more familiar with each other. There were a few chances against West Ham when we were in great positions to score or get into scoring positions but didn't make the right cross or players didn't make runs when they should have, made runs too soon when they shouldn't etc... So there is room for improvement and we should start to see the hard work paying off. I would love to see us go on a winning streak in the league so we remember what that feels like again. Despite not winning some of these games, I can noticeably see us improving game by game (with just a few exceptions like Chelsea which was a non-contest).
A lot of these games should have yielded more goals and perhaps it is a bit of bad luck, although I think it's more about players becoming more familiar with each other. There were a few chances against West Ham when we were in great positions to score or get into scoring positions but didn't make the right cross or players didn't make runs when they should have, made runs too soon when they shouldn't etc... So there is room for improvement and we should start to see the hard work paying off. I would love to see us go on a winning streak in the league so we remember what that feels like again. Despite not winning some of these games, I can noticeably see us improving game by game (with just a few exceptions like Chelsea which was a non-contest).
You seem to be coming to conclusions based on your assessment of his "temperament". That's what I mean by psychoanalysis. I'm not going to pretend to know the guy well enough to make predictions based on his temperament but I do think that the environment at United will be very different to what he experienced at Chelsea and Madrid because he won't have to be a buffer between an elected president and the fans and he won't have an owner coming down to the training pitch and telling him who to pick. Both those clubs have massive managerial turnover for reasons which have nothing to do with Jose Mourinho. In fact, he's unlikely to find another club where a manager has a better chance of becoming "the king" as this archetype was the norm for 20+ years when Fergie was in charge.
It's not really an assessment of his temperament, he lost his cool when he was under pressure at Chelsea and Real Madrid, you are not going to deny that and unlike you I don't believe that it's solely down to the clubs, they have had other managers who didn't lost their cool in fact most of them didn't try to fight everyone. So I think that he is partially the "problem".
And while I don't know the "guy" well, you don't know the clubs you are talking about well either. We are both assuming.
Louis van Mouyes
I bet, when he was being interviewed for the job at Barca, he said the samething, that it was his dream job.
Absolutely spot on I feel exactly the same , the football last year was abysmal hardly got a moments pleasure watching the dross served up by LVG .
Still lots of room for improvement but far more enjoyable this season
Exactly!
Not only that, but many people thought that Mourinho plays boring football, and LVG plays exciting football!!!
Fourth time we've scored four goals this season. Into a cup semi final months into his reign, playing good football, looked pretty solid today as well.
Another thing I liked, for all the talk about his team selection. He's dropped Fellaini and made Valencia into some sort of machine. Yes he's played Rashford too often from the wing, but the other options haven't been great thus far.
Hopefully Martial and Mikhi can kick on now and we don't see Rashford too often on the wing. Rather as an option off the bench and rotation with Zlatan. Let's see what Jose does.
Another thing I liked, for all the talk about his team selection. He's dropped Fellaini and made Valencia into some sort of machine. Yes he's played Rashford too often from the wing, but the other options haven't been great thus far.
Hopefully Martial and Mikhi can kick on now and we don't see Rashford too often on the wing. Rather as an option off the bench and rotation with Zlatan. Let's see what Jose does.
My post or the thread?
Good jinx
Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
pointless thread and not just because of today's game.
Why does it have to be a yes or no? Why does it have to be better? Why can't you look at the more intangible things like combinations, players they were able to secure and assemble. LVG was close to forming a decent team. Football at this level is all about having intelligent movement, complementing playstyle and doing the unexpected. Irrespective of the style of football, we did not have those players last season, this season we look like we do. So, the rest of it is only about how much success can that take you to. So any good "footballing style" can never be completely wrong. So, if we were failing at it last year it was a combination of things.
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