Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

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ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.
LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.
However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.
Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.
United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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Oh I see, an lvg fan

I'd have taken Dusty Bin as our next manager after that bluffer. Literally.
 
Mourinho is a top class manager who I've no doubt in my mind will turn things around. You've got to remember that save for four players, this is not his team. He had a crap pre-season and wasn't able to get all of his players together due to the Euros which will affect teams. The same can be said of Pep at City, Conte at Chelsea and Klopp at Liverpool. The difference with Chelsea and City is that the players they have are a few levels above what you currently have. I mentioned this on another thread and someone questioned that because Chelsea finished 10th last year and City were level on points with you at the end. Chelsea had the players but for some reason, Mourinho couldn't make them work together like he had the previous season. Conte has come in, given them a breath of fresh air and they look like like the title winning side of 2 years ago. City just threw money at the side (they were always going to when Pep signed) and of course, they're now going to be better.

Mourinho has clearly looked at what you lacked last season and has bought 4 top class players in to plug those gaps which to an extent, has worked. I don't know why Mikhi has been struggling to get in your team, maybe one of you on here can enlighten me but you look better all over the park compared to last year already. Finishing is your biggest problem at the moment but no one could see Zlatan doing anything other than scoring for fun in the league so Mourinho has to be let off a bit with that signing. I think he'll come good but it may be too late to score the goals you need to get into the top four. Mourinho will need another few transfer windows to make his mark but he's not stupid and he'll know which players need to be shipped out and who needs to come in. The biggest thing Mourinho will need is time from the board, the fans and the players as I think only hard work and time together will improve your current situation.
 
Why has this thread got so many replies. Whatever happened to the days of letting nonsensical idiot OP's die the quick deserving death they warrant. Epitome of feeding a troll.
 
Nanotron said:
Why has this thread got so many replies. Whatever happened to the days of letting nonsensical idiot OP's die the quick deserving death they warrant. Epitome of feeding a troll.
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If you could just let us know your email address so we could all email you first with any ideas for future threads so we can get your Royal approval, that would be great.
 
LVG got it wrong with his signings (with the odd honourable exception like Martial) and the playing style. He had to go. Mourinho will do better. The real question is whether he will eclipse Pep, Klopp and Conte.
 
kouroux said:
Just because it happened before doesn't mean it is an automatic law of nature. Mourinho was a proven winner before, transforming his teams into tough teams to beat. Well things have changed and football has evolved, LVG was completely past it and just because he left some kinda mythical heritage at his previous clubs, doesn't he was gonna do that at Man Utd.
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Well he did the exact thing he did at all his clubs- leave behind youth. Jose is proving you wrong - he is doing what he has always done & not using them. So yes I can Belive it to be a law of nature - if you so believe that Jose has always been a winner which is not true. He has always and always left clubs in ruts rather than for the better. That's why LVG is better than Jose in people's books.

You say that we are better than last season & then say you say that's not down to LVG. 4 clubs including ours now have been better immediately after LVG's left & now he has left ours you would put all the praise on the manager who has been here for 2 months..

Relax
 
Stack said:
If you could just let us know your email address so we could all email you first with any ideas for future threads so we can get your Royal approval, that would be great.
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To be fair it is a shit thread. How anyone who has actually been watching the games can think we were better under LVG is beyond me.
 
TheSweeper said:
Well he did the exact thing he did at all his clubs- leave behind youth. Jose is proving you wrong - he is doing what he has always done & not using them. So yes I can Belive it to be a law of nature - if you so believe that Jose has always been a winner which is not true. He has always and always left clubs in ruts rather than for the better. That's why LVG is better than Jose in people's books.

You say that we are better than last season & then say you say that's not down to LVG. 4 clubs including ours now have been better immediately after LVG's left & now he has left ours you would put all the praise on the manager who has been here for 2 months..

Relax
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Did I even say that in my post ? For me it is pretty simple, the past is the past, what managers did before at previous club means feck all nowdays and this goes for Mourinho and LVG.
Where do I exactly praise Mourinho too ? You sure you read my post ?
 
Other then the misusing of Mkhitaryan, and you could say Rashford he has not done much wrong.

Its not really his fault of the donkey finishing the strikers are producing at the moment. Should really have 4 more points at least at the moment
 
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I honestly can't believe how this thread is 8 pages long. It's as if people have completely forgotten what an absolute misery watching Utd of last season was.
 
snk123 said:
I honestly can't believe how this thread is 8 pages long. It's as if people have completely forgotten what an absolute misery watching Utd of last season was.
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I honestly cant believe you dont understand why this sort of page has appeared. 11 points below top spot and 8 points below CL qualification, then combine that with the massive majority sentiment being bandied about before and once Mourinho was appointed that trophies and titles would follow very quickly and that there was absolutely no other manager capable of managing Utd then it cant be that surprising that people will come up with this sort of thread.

And btw just for the record. I didnt want Mourinho here because I wasnt a fan of his football but I have enjoyed the way we have been playing and dont have any interest in getting rid of him.

Im just pointing out the humour in the outrage that this thread could of been created considering the underlying context etc.
 
We manage more chances and shots on goal in one game than LVG managed in a whole season. Yes, we might not be winning games, but at least we play attacking football which is enjoyable to watch. Before you let that LVG romanticism bullshit get into your head, just remember how we all wanted to poke our eyes out of boredom and misery week after week.
 
Speedy30 said:
Mourinho is a top class manager who I've no doubt in my mind will turn things around. You've got to remember that save for four players, this is not his team. He had a crap pre-season and wasn't able to get all of his players together due to the Euros which will affect teams. The same can be said of Pep at City, Conte at Chelsea and Klopp at Liverpool. The difference with Chelsea and City is that the players they have are a few levels above what you currently have. I mentioned this on another thread and someone questioned that because Chelsea finished 10th last year and City were level on points with you at the end. Chelsea had the players but for some reason, Mourinho couldn't make them work together like he had the previous season. Conte has come in, given them a breath of fresh air and they look like like the title winning side of 2 years ago. City just threw money at the side (they were always going to when Pep signed) and of course, they're now going to be better.

Mourinho has clearly looked at what you lacked last season and has bought 4 top class players in to plug those gaps which to an extent, has worked. I don't know why Mikhi has been struggling to get in your team, maybe one of you on here can enlighten me but you look better all over the park compared to last year already. Finishing is your biggest problem at the moment but no one could see Zlatan doing anything other than scoring for fun in the league so Mourinho has to be let off a bit with that signing. I think he'll come good but it may be too late to score the goals you need to get into the top four. Mourinho will need another few transfer windows to make his mark but he's not stupid and he'll know which players need to be shipped out and who needs to come in. The biggest thing Mourinho will need is time from the board, the fans and the players as I think only hard work and time together will improve your current situation.
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Good balanced post.

OP take note.
 
Stack said:
I honestly cant believe you dont understand why this sort of page has appeared. 11 points below top spot and 8 points below CL qualification, then combine that with the massive majority sentiment being bandied about before and once Mourinho was appointed that trophies and titles would follow very quickly and that there was absolutely no other manager capable of managing Utd then it cant be that surprising that people will come up with this sort of thread.

And btw just for the record. I didnt want Mourinho here because I wasnt a fan of his football but I have enjoyed the way we have been playing and dont have any interest in getting rid of him.

Im just pointing out the humour in the outrage that this thread could of been created considering the underlying context etc.
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First of all the point the OP is trying to make is that Mourinho is not better than LVG which is absolutely absurd and does not even warrant a discussion.
Secondly, you are extremely impatient. An 8 or even an 11 point gap at this stage of the season is not impossible to close. I would suggest watching the end of 2011-2012 season for reference.

The football that we are playing this season is because of Mourinho. We are dropping points because of missing a plethora of chances. That is not Mourinho's fault. Jose doesn't ask Rashford to miss one on ones or Mkhi to hit the post from 5 yards. If we string 3-4 wins together, we will be right back in the mix.

But threads like these make us a laughing stock - at least give him one full season before you somehow decide to say LVG was better.
 
snk123 said:
First of all the point the OP is trying to make is that Mourinho is not better than LVG which is absolutely absurd and does not even warrant a discussion.
Secondly, you are extremely impatient. An 8 or even an 11 point gap at this stage of the season is not impossible to close. I would suggest watching the end of 2011-2012 season for reference.

The football that we are playing this season is because of Mourinho. We are dropping points because of missing a plethora of chances. That is not Mourinho's fault. Jose doesn't ask Rashford to miss one on ones or Mkhi to hit the post from 5 yards. If we string 3-4 wins together, we will be right back in the mix.

But threads like these make us a laughing stock - at least give him one full season before you somehow decide to say LVG was better.
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Firstly the point Im making is that because of the massive championing of Mourinho on here where anybody who expressed opposition to Mourinho was hammered its no surprise that there are threads like this popping up early on even if they are loopy.

Secondly, Im not impatient at all. Did you read my comment, I am happy with how we are playing and dont have any desire to see him gone. I dont have any problem with where we are, I see improvement. The league position was being used to show another reason these sorts of threads are likely to appear within the context of the massive expectations and claims by the majority who wanted Mourinho.

Did you actually read what i said?
 
ryansgirl said:
Ah, another Johnny Come Lately. Trolls like you contributing nothing to discussion unlike most people on this thread should be banned. Like now.
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You're saying LvG was better than Jose and should have stayed. Pot calling the kettle black.
 
He hasn't been able to bring out the best from his players. And it's his fault. He got the players he wanted, it's his job to get them perform to the level they ought to.
 
My stance is this.
Managing big clubs is all about results.
When Lvg took over , we were in a mess , he instilled a posession based philosophy , at first it was exciting , but the leicester turnround hit home with him.
He doubted wether he could achieve top 4 with a transitional team playing recklessly
(exciting ) . He adapted out of self preservation and necessity and achieved his minimum requirement.
His second season was a mixture of bad decisions , 4231 ala José's title winning chelsea , bad luck, injuries , & fan disharmony which all contributed to it becoming a toil , albeit culminating in a hope inducing Fa cup win. The latter, fan disharmony , was the most frustrating imo. With a bit more understanding and support , we could easily have still achieved a top 4 finish, but too many had made their minds up by Xmas. This lack of confidence from the fans most certainly filtered through to the team , we weren't in that bad a position , we had just had a poor run.

To summarise , I didn't enjoy all our football under lvg , but I accepted that the football would improve once we learned to get consistent results. Thats how football works imo. Results breed confidence , which breed better football , its rarely the other way round. The cherry on top is always the last addition.

Jose was brought in to get results. Playing a ' more exciting ' brand of football that doesn't get them will not be viewed as mitigation come May.
I hope he gets them.
 
I didnt intend to reply to this , unintentional click on my part.

However , since I cannot delete it ,I may aswell answer.

I disagree with you in regards to the latter part of last season. Imo the team improved inspite of the enormous amounts of negativity that were thrown in its direction. That , to me , suggested the emergence of some backbone within the team.

It seems to have disappeared again for the time being.

Edit. ive still managed to feck this up.
Pogue said earlier , that we were shite all last season. I've missed his quote out of my 2nd edit. I hope my 3rd edit clears that up.ha.
 
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I'd rather not make the CL playing this football than not make it playing the worst football I had ever witnessed United play in 30 years as a supporter. Last year we were not as good as Man City for example it was just Man City were as bad as us in what was an overall freaky season. This year Chelsea and Liverpool are benefiting from stable sides and lack of European football and City despite having some serious wobbles themselves are still 10 points ahead of us, our finishing has cost us dear as well as some luck with refs decisions etc.
Not saying Jose is free from some scrutiny but its chalk and cheese for me apart from the similar love of Fellaini and his complete shitness plus other bizarre substitutions and tactics. At the end of the day though if Jose fails completely over the next three years I would expect him to be fired also.
 
Roosney said:
You're saying LvG was better than Jose and should have stayed. Pot calling the kettle black.
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And....? Since when are redcaf posters not allowed to have opinions that differ from yours? Calling for posters who have been around about 12 years longer than you to be banned from making threads because you don't agree with them....you're the troll.

I called David Moyes correctly - as did some other people here. David Moyes was a decent enough person and a good manager for underachieving clubs with some history of success as in Everton. But from the beginning some of us had doubts he would be able to handle Manchester United especially coming after Sir Alex's long reign. I didn't enjoy Moyes' troubles one bit - I would have loved to be have been proved wrong.

I'd love to be proved wrong with Mourinho. Hell, if he wins one piece of silverware in two years that would be fine. After all the much maligned Louis Van Gaal was successful in the FA Cup and it was an enjoyable campaign.

Bad luck about the classless United supporters who insulted him in public even on the winning FA Cup day. But Mourinho does not seem to some of us the right fit for United and he does indeed have a way of doing negative things in the clubs he manages along with winning some trophies. The nasty incidents with the Chelsea staff member give an indication of this.
 
frank lee madeer.. said:
My stance is this.
Managing big clubs is all about results.
When Lvg took over , we were in a mess , he instilled a posession based philosophy , at first it was exciting , but the leicester turnround hit home with him.
He doubted wether he could achieve top 4 with a transitional team playing recklessly
(exciting ) . He adapted out of self preservation and necessity and achieved his minimum requirement.
His second season was a mixture of bad decisions , 4231 ala José's title winning chelsea , bad luck, injuries , & fan disharmony which all contributed to it becoming a toil , albeit culminating in a hope inducing Fa cup win. The latter, fan disharmony , was the most frustrating imo. With a bit more understanding and support , we could easily have still achieved a top 4 finish, but too many had made their minds up by Xmas. This lack of confidence from the fans most certainly filtered through to the team , we weren't in that bad a position , we had just had a poor run.

To summarise , I didn't enjoy all our football under lvg , but I accepted that the football would improve once we learned to get consistent results. Thats how football works imo. Results breed confidence , which breed better football , its rarely the other way round. The cherry on top is always the last addition.

Jose was brought in to get results. Playing a ' more exciting ' brand of football that doesn't get them will not be viewed as mitigation come May.
I hope he gets them.
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Are you sure you are not being too reasonable here.......................?
 
Can only assume OP only watches MOTD high-lights. Our play is another level above LVG's dross. We actually look like a creative, combative football team and not a subbuteo team of soul-less robots carrying out precise instructions unable to deviate or pass the ball forward.
 
surf said:
LVG got it wrong with his signings (with the odd honourable exception like Martial) and the playing style. He had to go. Mourinho will do better. The real question is whether he will eclipse Pep, Klopp and Conte.
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And Wenger. Mourinho might make Martial into a failure, but so far his signing aren't looking much better, especially considering the money spend. The playing style never really took off, and for a change of playing style to become a success, it has to resonate with the players, the fans and be build on by a successor. It worked for Bayern, that it didn't work for United within the time given (which turned out to be 20 months rather than the 3 years) is a fact, but history will tell if it was Van Gaal who was in the wrong, or United.

But they are different managers with a different approach and even a different job to do. Van Gaal was doing a rebuild, Mourinho is just buying a team together. That's less ambitious and should get the result in the sense of a serious title challenge much sooner. It wouldn't make sense to be more patient with Mourinho, just because he's seen as a better manager by those who didn't know LvG because they don't know much about football outside England.
 
snk123 said:
I honestly can't believe how this thread is 8 pages long. It's as if people have completely forgotten what an absolute misery watching Utd of last season was.
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Unfortunately people have short memories.
It's shocking that anybody could say LVGs football was entertaining.
It was mind numbingly boring. His tactic was to aim to get to half time, with a 0-0 scoreline which was shocking.

I remember for many months, after every game, I'd go straight to the LVG Out thread. I supported that LVG for 18 months - complete loyalty - but he lost me after that disastrous December when we lost/drew every game and looked really bad.

Anybody who watched us last year and this year, would never say that we were better under LVG. I am not sure if the OP started this thread as a joke and is continuing the joke.
 
frank lee madeer.. said:
My stance is this.
Managing big clubs is all about results.
When Lvg took over , we were in a mess , he instilled a posession based philosophy , at first it was exciting , but the leicester turnround hit home with him.
He doubted wether he could achieve top 4 with a transitional team playing recklessly
(exciting ) . He adapted out of self preservation and necessity and achieved his minimum requirement.
His second season was a mixture of bad decisions , 4231 ala José's title winning chelsea , bad luck, injuries , & fan disharmony which all contributed to it becoming a toil , albeit culminating in a hope inducing Fa cup win. The latter, fan disharmony , was the most frustrating imo. With a bit more understanding and support , we could easily have still achieved a top 4 finish, but too many had made their minds up by Xmas. This lack of confidence from the fans most certainly filtered through to the team , we weren't in that bad a position , we had just had a poor run.

To summarise , I didn't enjoy all our football under lvg , but I accepted that the football would improve once we learned to get consistent results. Thats how football works imo. Results breed confidence , which breed better football , its rarely the other way round. The cherry on top is always the last addition.

Jose was brought in to get results. Playing a ' more exciting ' brand of football that doesn't get them will not be viewed as mitigation come May.
I hope he gets them.
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and bad coaching breeds lack of team direction, lack of chances, lack of shots, lack of leadership, lack of players wanting to play for you, lack of fan support and thankfully a lack of board support.

Jose will deliver, results and performance. Its taken time to undo the brainwashing.
 
sunama said:
Unfortunately people have short memories.
It's shocking that anybody could say LVGs football was entertaining.
It was mind numbingly boring. His tactic was to aim to get to half time, with a 0-0 scoreline which was shocking.

I remember for many months, after every game, I'd go straight to the LVG Out thread. I supported that LVG for 18 months - complete loyalty - but he lost me after that disastrous December when we lost/drew every game and looked really bad.

Anybody who watched us last year and this year, would never say that we were better under LVG. I am not sure if the OP started this thread as a joke and is continuing the joke.
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LVG setup his team to avoid defeat, not to go out and win. Very un-Manchester United like
 
Dr. Funkenstein said:
And Wenger. Mourinho might make Martial into a failure, but so far his signing aren't looking much better, especially considering the money spend. The playing style never really took off, and for a change of playing style to become a success, it has to resonate with the players, the fans and be build on by a successor. It worked for Bayern, that it didn't work for United within the time given (which turned out to be 20 months rather than the 3 years) is a fact, but history will tell if it was Van Gaal who was in the wrong, or United.
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What the hell? He's signed four players. Already two of them look like better players than anyone signed by Van Gaal in his two fecking years (and hundreds of millions spent) as a manager.

But they are different managers with a different approach and even a different job to do. Van Gaal was doing a rebuild, Mourinho is just buying a team together. That's less ambitious and should get the result in the sense of a serious title challenge much sooner. It wouldn't make sense to be more patient with Mourinho, just because he's seen as a better manager by those who didn't know LvG because they don't know much about football outside England.
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You say that as though Van Gaal didn't match Mourinho's spending. He did. He also consistently complained about the need to buy even more players, right up to the bitter end.
 
The thing about LVG was that he never showed any real signs of having found the right formula. We were still waiting for it all to - finally - click when he was fired. After two full seasons.

What I personally suspected was a variation on what LVG did at Bayern: Struggle to begin with (his own estimate was three months, iirc), then find the formula and produce strong results, then alienate a few players, stagnate and finally feck off. I'd have taken that, no questions asked.

But it never happened. «Three months» turned into «forever», and LVG himself looked more and more like an old man who doesn't quite understand what's wrong with the world, and much less how to fix it.

As a fan you can take a struggle, a transition, all that - but you can't take someone who just looks hopeless and lost. I see people come back to the fact that we were actually very close to finishing 4th last season, but it seems a moot point for several reasons. It wouldn't have been much of an improvement. And anyone who watched us during that run-in knows that we weren't going neck and neck with our rivals in any meaningful sense: It didn't have that feel to it at all. We were drifting into an almost random finishing position, in a generally poor and chaotic league, playing shite football at that. It felt feckin' hopeless, the whole «process», and you can't counter that with sheer stats and figures.
 
iHicksy said:
Can only assume OP only watches MOTD high-lights. Our play is another level above LVG's dross. We actually look like a creative, combative football team and not a subbuteo team of soul-less robots carrying out precise instructions unable to deviate or pass the ball forward.
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Bang on.

People say football is all about results but as a fan I disagree. Entertainment is the most important thing. That's why we pay our money and give up our time at the end of the day.

Mourinho seems to be implementing a style of play in keeping with United's traditions - width, power and pace on the counter-attacks. The last four games have seen some of the best football United have played since Ferguson left. People should stick with - after 20 years of success we can cope with three or four years of relative mediocrity, can't we?

If LVG had stayed we wouldn't have signed any of the players we signed and we'd probably be in exactly the same position we're in now, but having played much worse football.
 
I think alot of you are heavily invested (emotionally) with Mourinho being a success.

I couldn't give a toss if it's him or the man who replaces him. Some of us are just calling it as it is.
 
Minimalist said:
I think a lot of you are heavily invested (emotionally) with Mourinho being a success.

I couldn't give a toss if it's him or the man who replaces him. Some of us are just calling it as it is.
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Football fans emotionally invested in their club doing well? What madness is this?!?

Your second para is too bizarre for words. You actually support Manchester United and you wouldn't prefer if success came with the current manager over waiting for him to get sacked so the next guy gets his chance? One of the weirdest things I've ever read on here.
 
While the results aren't showing it, yet, I am watching much more entertaining football for the most part under JM than LvG. Look at the amount of shots and shots on goal we've had. It isn't the manager's tactics, its our players not finishing and some good GK work on the other side that have minimized our efforts. That's just how I see it.
 
Minimalist said:
I think alot of you are heavily invested (emotionally) with Mourinho being a success.

I couldn't give a toss if it's him or the man who replaces him. Some of us are just calling it as it is.
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Well I'm with you. I've been a fan since the late 70's, so my emotional investment is in the Club, not the suit and tie in the technical area. But I don't think tossing managers continually is smart, and I will support him and the Club as long as there appears to be a way forward. I see some good things, even if the points aren't showing it right now.
 
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