Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

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I don't like this scoring goals and creating chances malarkey.
Bring back possession stats and playing Nick Powell upfront!
 
Niall said:
Sums up my thoughts perfectly.
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We must be a similar age you me and Pogue.

Pogue has nailed it with his post.

34 or so years I've been a united fan and last season was the worst football I've seen. Then again, maybe I've just forgotten some badness from Fergie's second and third full seasons as it was so long ago.
 
We witnessed the most shocking and tumescent Manchester United last season under Van Gaal since 30 + years maybe even more.

Incredible that people still bring up that old fool.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just sitting through our matches for 90 minutes every week was painful enough.

Honestly not exaggerating that in my 30+ years watching United I have never come as close as I did last season to falling out of love with football altogether. It was absolutely brutal. This season has been all sunshine and rainbows by comparison. Of course it helps that I'm old enough to remember life before Fergie and the possibility that the pleasure you get from watching a football team was about more than just accumulating points.

Which is kind of ironic, considering how one of the most widespread anxieties when Mourinho was hired was that our football would be dour and uninspiring to watch. So far, it's been anything but. With maybe 2 or 3 exceptions.
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This sums it up perfectly for me, my first season as a fan was 87/88 when I fully started enjoying the game and not just goal highlights, the entertainment was why as a kid I became a United fan, so last season even the wins were bittersweet as they mostly came playing a soul destroying brand of football to the point where I watched out of obligation.

This season has been genuinely frustrating as our play has warranted more than it's gotten, but I'm back to looking forward to our games and enjoying the football even when the results are infuriating, it's the most I've enjoyed us and felt confident in the teams future since Fergie retired.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
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Van Gaal never had the players on board with his negative boring football.

If you cannot see the team is evolving under Jose then you really should give up posted on public forums.
 
What a depressing and crap thread.

Under Moyes and LvG I've seen some of the most tumescent, pointless and slow football I've seen not only United but any other top team in the last 20-30 years. Fecking hell I'm glad those "era's" are over.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't see it, since he joined United I have seen a lot more of him and he is too nervous, he is too affected by what happens around him.
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I see the opposite right now, especially in the way he talks about the club. I'm happy with the atmosphere he is creating. United against the world , not me against the world.
 
Do not try to say this to Van Gaal fan club, unless Mourinho starts Fellaini as a striker, he is not up to Van Gaal standards.

The knifes are being prepared to the match against Everton.
 
Today was fantastic. All players played well and there was no one who you could say had a bad game. Except De Gea's howler maybe. The football has slowly improved. I guess i am willing to be patient if we continue seeing signs like these. A definite step up from the LvG era.

The question is, if this can be repeated against a more difficult opponent in an away game this sunday and build on from there.
 
This really is a pointless thread. We are playing the best football of the three permanent managers since Fergie retired under Jose. No more aimless backwards and sideways passing. Plenty of attacking play with our forward line coming together. The link up play today was absolutely superb and that was without Poggers and Mata. Sure there are a few more kinks to iron out but anyone who is still pining for LVG and his dross seriously needs their heads looking into. He could have been here 5 years and we would have got relegated. There is absolutely a definite improvement since Jose arrived and I look forward to all the games now and am only a little disappointed when we don't win because at least I have been entertained. I for one am very happy. Already looking forward to next season. Would happily take 6th place with the EFL and Europa League cups and a good FA Cup run.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.

One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.

LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.

However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.

Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.

United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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Well you've been hitting the crack pipe. For the first time in years watching United has actually made me smile this season. Under Moyes and LVG we were pretty dire. Under Mourinho we are creating chances whilst playing some lovely football all we need to do is become clinical in front of goal and we are going to be flying. Add in a few more quality additions to the squad over maybe the January window alongside the summer and we could be back in business.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just sitting through our matches for 90 minutes every week was painful enough.

Honestly not exaggerating that in my 30+ years watching United I have never come as close as I did last season to falling out of love with football altogether. It was absolutely brutal. This season has been all sunshine and rainbows by comparison. Of course it helps that I'm old enough to remember life before Fergie and the possibility that the pleasure you get from watching a football team was about more than just accumulating points.

Which is kind of ironic, considering how one of the most widespread anxieties when Mourinho was hired was that our football would be dour and uninspiring to watch. So far, it's been anything but. With maybe 2 or 3 exceptions.
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I didn't not follow United in SAF early day (being too young myself in a non football fan family), so I can't compare, just here saying I am not against LVG and I would defend him vs pro Moyes crowd that LVG is a better coach and have a plan. However, LVG tried to change the club identity which is big task and impossible given the length of his time. Trying to coach a new identity into a big club with largest fanbase 2 years away from someone like SAF is crazy and 99.99% won't work out well. The football culture clash show in the team then the supporters. Mourinho was not my first choice (Ancelotti was) but I accepted his appointment and think he just needs time to get us back on track, and he's a better coach for us than LVG.
 
Hellboy said:
We witnessed the most shocking and tumescent Manchester United last season under Van Gaal since 30 + years maybe even more.

Incredible that people still bring up that old fool.
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I gather then that you have never heard of Dave Sexton. There's something about Manchester United managers with the first name of David.

Both 'Daves' managed to do just about nothing but bore the fans when they weren't confusing them and the players, and in David Moyes' case alienate a very loyal fanbase and waste the multi million pound assorted talent he had at his disposal. A decent man, David Moyes, but completely unsuited for the job.

Especially when he said things in public that Sir Alex and some United managers before him would never have said except privately. Both Daves had the playing material to work with but didn't utilise it. Mourinho also seems to have this characteristic of saying too much in public including criticising players that Sir Alex and Louis VG understood was a no go.
 
JPRouve said:
But it still adds up, if I buy a car 25k and spend 15k on it, I should expect to have a better car. You don't compare 150m with 250m but what Mourinho inherited and what he added to it.
Now, we are in late November the team could and should improve drastically during the next months, so it's not the time to analyze Mourinho's spending or decide that he isn't improving the team. The end of the season is the right time to do that.
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What if you spent 25k on modding your sedan into an ATV then decided 2 years later you wanted a drag racer and modded it to the tune of another 15k? Because that's what's happened to our team across the past 3 seasons... He's inherited a squad that had 250m spent on it, but given he's going a different direction then it's not 250m of progress invested in his book to add on, but 150m to fix what he sees as issues.
 
ryansgirl said:
I gather then that you have never heard of Dave Sexton. There's something about Manchester United managers with the first name of David.

Both 'Daves' managed to do just about nothing but bore the fans when they weren't confusing them and the players, and in David Moyes' case alienate a very loyal fanbase and waste the multi million pound assorted talent he had at his disposal. A decent man, David Moyes, but completely unsuited for the job.

Especially when he said things in public that Sir Alex and some United managers before him would never have said except privately. Both Daves had the playing material to work with but didn't utilise it. Mourinho also seems to have this characteristic of saying too much in public including criticising players that Sir Alex and Louis VG understood was a no go.
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But but David Sexton was worst .....

I don't care ! Van Gaal's United was fecking shite full stop. Devangaalising the team is an ongoing process and our football with Mourinho is improving, and already better than anything we produced in the last two years a part from those 3 games in early 2015.
 
I don't miss Van Gaal's horny football and that is a fact. Early last season, i was happy that we were pretty accurate in our shot accuracy where almost all shots on goal results in a goal (not that we had many shots on goal) but as the season progressed we just got worst and worst. If we don't have DeGea or Smalling, many games would be lost. This season, we are making more attempts on goal and players are playing more on instincts which is pleasing to the eye. I am enjoying watching us play again.
 
You won't get a more concrete example of how the shackles have come off since the Van Gaal shitfest than Hererra's last two assists. How often in the previous two years did you see one of our CM's getting to the byline? I'm willing to bet the answer is not once. His insistence on players holding their positions, no matter the circumstances, was fecking infuriating and contrary to what you would see with pretty much any other team around. Dark ages football, it really was.

I also firmly believe that spending two years being brainwashed into applying such an extreme philosophy (there, I said it) was a big factor in our mediocre start to the season. Thank christ we've finally seen the players starting to enjoy themselves on the pitch again. Because they probably suffered as much as us fans throughout the robotic tedium of the last two seasons.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You won't get a more concrete example of how the shackles have come off since the Van Gaal shitfest than Hererra's last two assists. How often in the previous two years did you see one of our CM's getting to the byline? I'm willing to bet the answer is not once. His insistence on players holding their positions, no matter the circumstances, was fecking infuriating and contrary to what you would see with pretty much any other team around. Dark ages football, it really was.
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The worst part was the "two touches" rule, it was killing all spontaneity and inventivity.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You won't get a more concrete example of how the shackles have come off since the Van Gaal shitfest than Hererra's last two assists. How often in the previous two years did you see one of our CM's getting to the byline? I'm willing to bet the answer is not once. His insistence on players holding their positions, no matter the circumstances, was fecking infuriating and contrary to what you would see with pretty much any other team around. Dark ages football, it really was.
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It's amazing what happens when a player who's really good at passing a football accurately gets into those positions to cut the ball back isn't it?
 
JPRouve said:
The worst part was the "two touches" rule, it was killing all spontaneity and inventivity.
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Or telling strikers to "always run to near post, always". Both Martial's goals last night were scored by doing the opposite.

His control freakery was so extreme it was though he genuinely believed he could turn football into an extremely expensive version of Pro Evo. Only much much worse to watch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Or telling strikers to "always run to near post, always". Both Martial's goals last night were scored by doing the opposite.

His control freakery was so extreme it was though he genuinely believed he could turn football into an extremely expensive version of Pro Evo. Only much much worse to watch.
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To be fair, I think that his philosophy is good at academy level, if you ignore results and try to create players tactically and technically sound. When they have that basis, they are ready to play for anyone in pretty much all sorts of systems.
 
JPRouve said:
To be fair, I think that his philosophy is good at academy level, if you ignore results and try to create players tactically and technically sound. When they have that basis, they are ready to play for anyone in pretty much all sorts of systems.
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100% agree. Some of LvG's ideas were brilliant but needed to have been embedded into the players a long time ago. I remember watching the Ajax of old, they were tactically sound in epic level. He would have made an awesome U23 manager for us!
 
Last night was a performance par for the course of the last 6 weeks or so, the difference being our attackers showed their true ability. It was like watching a Ferguson side.

Said it in another thread, we remind me of klopps early months at Liverpool. The improvement is clear but the results haven consistently showed yet.

For the first time since Ferguson I feel we are in the right hands and going in the right direction.
 
JPRouve said:
To be fair, I think that his philosophy is good at academy level, if you ignore results and try to create players tactically and technically sound. When they have that basis, they are ready to play for anyone in pretty much all sorts of systems.
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I don't see how the rigidity he insisted in the way his team plays is conducive to having good technique. You'll just end up with players so afraid of expressing themselves that they'll lose whatever flair they once had. Or really bad at first time passing because they always take two touches etc. etc. I'm sure his methods must have worked at some point but they seem incredibly outdated nowadays.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't see how the rigidity he insisted in the way his team plays is conducive to having good technique. You'll just end up with players so afraid of expressing themselves that they'll lose whatever flair they once had. Or really bad at first time passing because they always take two touches etc. etc. I'm sure his methods must have worked at some point but they seem incredibly outdated nowadays.
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LVG has strict technical drills in which players have to control-pass as fast as possible, they have to respect that combo and develop their ability to control the ball under all circumstances. And that's not outdated at all, that's how Barcelona or Ajax players play but they tend to push the thing with controlling the ball with one foot and passing it with the other, it always them to create space for themselves, control the opposition pressing and control the rhythm of the game.

The problem with that philosophy is that when your players aren't confident, they think too much and butcher easy things.
 
JPRouve said:
LVG has strict technical drills in which players have to control-pass as fast as possible, they have to respect that combo and develop their ability to control the ball under all circumstances. And that's not outdated at all, that's how Barcelona or Ajax players play but they tend to push the thing with controlling the ball with one foot and passing it with the other, it always them to create space for themselves, control the opposition pressing and control the rhythm of the game.

The problem with that philosophy is that when your players aren't confident, they think too much and butcher easy things.
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I would argue that the philosophy itself makes players over-think, which starts the vicious circle.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I would argue that the philosophy itself makes players over-think, which starts the vicious circle.
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Only when they are not used to or comfortable in it, like every other system really.
 
ryansgirl said:
Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.

One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.

LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.

However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.

Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.

United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?
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hmmm Jose Mourinho been here 7 months, VG had 2 years, safe to say just wait and see
 
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