RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2011/2012)

I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
 
This year specially I want us to win it, Suarez scoring the winner and picking up the cup as capitan (because Gerrard was substituted in the last 10 minutes, Carra wasn't there, and Reina just gave him the armband) and then take his shirt off revealing a feck the Negritos in the FA shirt and running around Wembley like a madman.
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:wenger:

I guess Glenn Johnson won't be allowed near the party.
 
This year specially I want us to win it, Suarez scoring the winner and picking up the cup as capitan (because Gerrard was substituted in the last 10 minutes, Carra wasn't there, and Reina just gave him the armband) and then take his shirt off revealing a feck the Negritos in the FA shirt and running around Wembley like a madman.
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What a fecking moron :lol:
 
sammsky1 said:
Lets not all get too clever here about Henderson. There were plenty on our own board on our own 'Henderson thread' touting his future talents and dreaming of a future Rodwell- Henderson midfiled pairing that would last us a decade.

Again, Thank fcuk its SAF who makes our transfer decisions and not any of us (well intended) transfer muppets!
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Let's not be silly here, for every 1 poster advocating Henderson there were roughly 50 saying hell no.

We called it right.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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That's a little unfair Plech. I would have said (if I was defending Suarez) that he was simply trying to wind-up Evra and got carried away in a heated exchange (given the 2 clubs involved). Then you say sorry and behave with contrition.

Liverpool have made it far worse for Suarez with their bellicose statements and leaks to the press.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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Not me. And from my experiences on this board on other thread (sometimes in CE for example on similar discussions), I don't think it would have been as prolific as you suggest. I really don't.

And I think our highly commendable and responsible mods would never have allowed for it either - ground rules would have very quickly have been drawn up, clearly communicated and implemented.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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There's not a chance that this board would have reacted as RAWK & co have. I'm not saying that we're all saints but we don't confuse sheer idiocy with club allegiance.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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Maybe so, but could you see United respond in the same way as Liverpool have?

I think quite a lot of posters on RAWK feel justified in their opinions due to Liverpools reaction to all of this.
 
RedCanuck said:
That's a little unfair Plech. I would have said (if I was defending Suarez) that he was simply trying to wind-up Evra and got carried away in a heated exchange (given the 2 clubs involved). Then you say sorry and behave with contrition.

Liverpool have made it far worse for Suarez with their bellicose statements and leaks to the press.
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Oh the club have behaved idiotically, no question. But the fans are just being blinkered like football fans are, and I doubt ours would have been much different.

sammsky1 said:
Not me. And from my experiences on this board on other thread (sometimes in CE for example on similar discussions), I don't think it would have been as prolific as you suggest. I really don't.

And I think our highly commendable and responsible mods would never have allowed for it either - ground rules would have very quickly have been drawn up, clearly communicated and implemented.
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Maybe. Don't underestimate the power of tribalism to make people see what they want to see though.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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I agree mostly but personally I think I'd keep quiet and hope it wasn't true. But if the same evidence subsequently came out about one of our players then I would think the ban was on the light side and I think I'd want him sold.
 
SteveJ said:
There's not a chance that this board would have reacted as RAWK & co have. I'm not saying that we're all saints but we don't confuse sheer idiocy with club allegiance.
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Colour me dubious (that's racist).

narnar said:
Maybe so, but could you see United respond in the same way as Liverpool have?

I think quite a lot of posters on RAWK feel justified in their opinions due to Liverpools reaction to all of this.
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Yeah no question the club have been disgraceful idiots, and you're right that has no doubt influenced the fans. My counterfactual ought to extend to United behaving the same way (which I don't think would ever happen).
 
Plechazunga said:
Colour me dubious
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:)

Well mate, hopefully we won't face a similar scenario as - I agree with you - it would be divisive...just not to the extent you might have suggested, I think.
 
SteveJ said:
:)

Well mate, hopefully we won't face a similar scenario as - I agree with you - it would be divisive...just not to the extent you might have suggested, I think.
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We even are facing a similar scenario, to a much smaller extent, in that Evra is accused of using xenophobic language to Suarez. Now I don't think that's as bad as using racist language, but I don't think it's very nice. Yet I also have to confess that I fundamentally don't give a shit whether he did or didn't. I just want that aspect of it to go away, and I reckon the same's true of most of our fans, who don't much mention it.

Anyway, this thread's for laughing it RAWK, not self-analysis, so I'll leave it at that.
 
Plechazunga said:
Oh the club have behaved idiotically, no question. But the fans are just being blinkered like football fans are, and I doubt ours would have been much different.

Maybe. Don't underestimate the power of tribalism to make people see what they want to see though.
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No question I would have tried to mitigate and rationalize the situation.

LFC have and continue to deny that anything worthy of condemnation has occurred, which inflames the supporters.

But, as an example, none of us (nor the club) tried to say that Rio wasn't guilty when he missed/ducked that drug test, just that the punishment was out of line.
 
I think the idiocy would have been crushed much quicker on here, mods wouldn't be banning people who even suggested our player might have said it or forcing taglines on everyone.
 
The fans are taking their cues from the club and manager.

If Dalglish and LFC had acted with a bit more decorum and been much less incendiary, then the fans would (largely) follow suit.

There's no way Fergie or United would've handled it that badly.

In the unlikely event that they did, I would say many of our fans would react similarly, but I doubt on Red Cafe that the mods would stand for some of the outrageous comments and behaviour seen on LFC boards.
 
Plechazunga said:
We even are facing a similar scenario, to a much smaller extent, in that Evra is accused of using xenophobic language to Suarez. Now I don't think that's as bad as using racist language, but I don't think it's very nice. Yet I also have to confess that I fundamentally don't give a shit whether he did or didn't. I just want that aspect of it to go away, and I reckon the same's true of most of our fans, who don't much mention it.

Anyway, this thread's for laughing it RAWK, not self-analysis, so I'll leave it at that.
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*sigh*

He's not. That whole sudaca thing was another fabrication by Liverpool pre-report being released.
 
RedCanuck said:
But, as an example, none of us (nor the club) tried to say that Rio wasn't guilty when he missed/ducked that drug test, just that the punishment was out of line.
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I did! The results turned up negative, he never took any performance enhancing or recreational drugs. I don't know what he did - a bloke I know who worked for the FA at the time (and is a Liverpool fan who hates United) knows, but he would only tell me that he didn't take any drugs, but was just 'colossally stupid'. (I reckon the story about him fearing a VD would show up is probably true.)

Kraftwerker said:
The fans are taking their cues from the club and manager.

If Dalglish and LFC had acted with a bit more decorum and been much less incendiary, then the fans would (largely) follow suit.

There's no way Fergie or United would've handled it that badly.

In the unlikely event that they did, I would say many of our fans would react similarly, but I doubt on Red Cafe that the mods would stand for some of the outrageous comments and behaviour seen on LFC boards.
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Agreed on the mods. We certainly wouldn't have 'So-and-so is not a racist' taglines... that shit is painful.

Re the accusation, I'm not saying it's true, I'm just saying it has been alleged, and I don't really care whether it's true or not, for tribalistic reasons. And I'm not even that tribalistic about United.
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'. You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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I dunno, this place is more...er cosmopolitan than RAWK, so I'd like to think it'd be different, that said Red Issue's a more likely example. However, I'm sure you'd get some muppets saying it's 'PC gone mad' on here. Anyway, I watched a clip of United fans signing' Suarez's a racist' - I suspect more than a tiny minority of them don't give a stuff about racism and what not - but that's fans for you eh.

And you're tribal. I said so.
 
Just to show that not all Liverpool fans are frothing loons, this is C&P'd from another forum I frequent:

The FA report is pretty damning. Based on that, it's clear why LFC have accepted the ban - any appeal will have failed and the ban will have been increased.

If refusing to speak to people because they're black (or any other colour) is 'cultural' then the UN need to get involved in stamping out this 'culture'. However, I'm not going to insult Uruguayans by suggesting this is the norm in their country. If such behaviour is widespread on Uruguayan football pitches, FIFA need to get involved and, to coin a well known phrase, 'Kick it Out'. And probably kick Uruguay out of FIFA too.

I'm not entirely convinced that Suarez wrote that statement alone - it seems a very contrived effort. And, even though I accept that the use of words of colour can be used as a nickname in South America (as it is in many other parts of the world), I cannot accept that this applies here.

What saddens me most is that the statements from the club and Suarez do not once express any regret or acceptance that a momumental cock up has been made. If it was purely a naive mistake (which I don't think it is), courtesy demands that some remorse for the error has been felt. This appear not to be the case. The club seem to be sticking to their guns about how Suarez has done nothing wrong. Unless, of course, the club think that the conversation between the two players, as stated in the report, is false. But the statement doesn't say this either.

I wonder whether part of the reason people are trying to defend Suarez (including myself to a degree) is his importance to the team. It's not an excuse, but the effect of football tribalism. Had it been Maxi Rodriguez or Sebastian Coates involved, I'm not sure so many of us would be defending him.

And lastly, will LFC players, staff and officials STOP, just STOP using the 'You'll Never Walk Alone' line in official statements. It's embarassing, it's cringeworthy and simply not necessary.
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agree to an extent Plech, in regards to how fans behave, but i'd like to think United, the club, would not have reacted in the same way as LFC did
 
Plechazunga said:
I also suspect that had the Suarez-Evra thing been the other way round, most on here would be peddling the same arguments about PC gone mad and the shades of meaning of 'negrito'.

You can see the same sort of thing in most racism threads, there's always a load of cretins saying, "I wouldn't care if someone called me 'whitey'" or "There's nothing racist about calling someone a black bastard if he is actually black".
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To be fair Plech, if it's the other way around, there'll be email campaigns and murder threats by now from LFC fans.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Just to show that not all Liverpool fans are frothing loons
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Ditto:

I am furious and appalled at the way the Club has handled this. I don't agree with th impotent metaphorical fist- waving the latest statement shows. Either back down with grace and a bit of dignity or fight. Not this deeply unedifying petulance.

The media are having a field day with ammunition that the Club keeps giving them. For this who think it wouldn't happen to any other club, get real. Surely you can see that ANY club that has behaved as we have, since the verdict was released in particular but, from reading the account of the preparation of the case in the Report, throughout, would have received a kicking in the media. We are giving them all the ammo they need, why should they exercise any self restraint in what they do with it. If this was another club, i would have been alternating between pissing myself laughing and shock at the appalling lack of judgment on display.

In addition, Unlike most on here, I think Suarez was in part in the wrong, not necessarily for using the expression "negro" in the first place, but for not acknowledging even now that even if its ok in Uruguay, it isn't here and that he won't use it again. His statement yesterday was all about him and the effect this has all had on him and how he'd done nothing wrong. it would have been better had he at least acknowledged that he now knows he can't use the terminology again, as he appeared to do to the Panel, although in light of his statement yestrday that could just have been to keep his punishment down. So I don't back him unreservedly in the way that most do on here, although I am sure he isn't a racist. He does need to start showing a bit of accountability in all this, grow up and learn from the exprience not just paint himself as a hapless victim.

Finally, in their attempt to defend Suarez,there have been people saying things like, why is racist abuse any different from talking about "your sister's c**t"' or why is it wrong to address people as black if they are, or even, why shouldn't we all be able to use the n-word, or allegations of racial abuse should need to be proved beyond reasonable doubt to protect the accused. If we are not careful, we could end up throwing the baby ( decades of slow progress towards race equality and the effective tackling of discrimination) with the bath water ( a desire to see one of our players exonnerated). I really hope we can get away from some of the frankly worrying opinions that have been published from LFC fans in the context of this case.

Very very unhappy at the moment.
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(1) Pogue & Steve posted exactly the kind of attitude I've seen prevalent among my Liverpool-supporting mates. Sad times for good Liverpool supporters, but obviously the peak of the season for the tinfoilhats, and plenty of laughs for us.

(2) Plech is as always good at whispering Respice post te, hominem te memento when we're getting a bit too pleased with ourselves, and reminding us that as football supporters we're basically all tribalist loons. And he's right, although I sincerely doubt we'll ever see a Manc version of the wonderful 'reflect on your own excellence and totally unique emotional dedication to your club while you're standing up for the greater good' Scouse tradition.

(3) A true gem of a non sequitur from RAWK --
vitch@RAWK said:
Kenny tried his best to point out to the journalist that the word negro as used in that conversation is pronounced "neh-ro", and not "nee-gro"
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Quoting Latin? This place really is a cut above RAWK.
 
I love these lines :lol: (from the post Pogue quoted)
"And lastly, will LFC players, staff and officials STOP, just STOP using the 'You'll Never Walk Alone' line in official statements. It's embarassing, it's cringeworthy and simply not necessary. "
 
golden_blunder said:
agree to an extent Plech, in regards to how fans behave, but i'd like to think United, the club, would not have reacted in the same way as LFC did
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LFC fans' reaction has been dictated by their club. LFC have chosen to inflame the situation rather than be more conciliatory which in turn has lead to some rather extreme views from their fans. They've tried to create some bizarre siege mentality amongst their supporters.

I would think United in the same position would act a lot better and in turn would lead the fans of this club behaving in a lot more dignified manner. Though I'm sure we have our loonies as well.


Its set up for Evra getting a lot of horrible abuse next time he is at Anfield. Liverpool's mishandling of this situation will entirely be to blame for it.
 
The fans have been the sadder/more obsessive/bonkers, but the club's position has been far more disturbing. It's been downright incendiary.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
LFC fans' reaction has been dictated by their club. LFC have chosen to inflame the situation rather than be more conciliatory which in turn has lead to some rather extreme views from their fans. They've tried to create some bizarre siege mentality amongst their supporters.

I would think United in the same position would act a lot better and in turn would lead the fans of this club behaving in a lot more dignified manner. Though I'm sure we have our loonies as well.


Its set up for Evra getting a lot of horrible abuse next time he is at Anfield. Liverpool's mishandling of this situation will entirely be to blame for it.
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The fans had made their mind up before the clubs statement. The statement just encouraged them to keep their blinkered stance about the whole issue. Before the club uttered a word, the fans (I'm only judging from RAWK responses so this may not be wholey accurate) had concluded that Evra was a liar and had cried racist on previous occasions, Suarez was a great lad who had a black Grandfather which would present no reason for him to be racist, and Evra didn't react much to it in the game therefore it couldn't have being racist.

Then comes the club statement and they all worship it.
 
"Kenny, so basically you're saying that Sir Alex Ferguson is Machiavellian?"

"No, he's definitely Scottish."
 
OLDSCROTE@RAWK said:
The lawyers we instructed are one of the top sports law firms in the country. They are part of the establishment. Our top man chairs FA tribunals. He chaired our tribunal over Heinze's transfer and ruled against us. It's a job.

'No comment' was the way to go, any dock brief would tell you that.
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Someone who has his head where it should be.
 
charleysurf said:
Quoting Latin? This place really is a cut above RAWK.
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Quoting Latin actually used to be a RAWK specialty. Back in the Golden Age (the Rafa years) every other post was started with a Latin quote, e.g. --

“Perfer et obdura, dolor hic tibi proderit olim were the words echoing in my mind as I looked down on the soggy oatcake on my plate. Stoke away was always a difficult fixture..."*

*Not actual RAWK quote, although it's easy finding lots which are much funnier. I just have to do a bit of work at the moment.

SteveJ said:
Welcome back, mate, great to see you around again.
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Cheers! :D Great to be back!
In other news, over on RAWK they've lost the last shreds of sanity --
Greyfox@RAWK said:
One thing that's nags in the back of my mind, is why isn't Evra on a charge?
Insulting language of a sexual nature, threatening behaviour, "you SouthAmerican you" (please do me a favour...) crowd incitement (badge kissing in front of crowd)
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:lol:
 
Waltraute said:
Quoting Latin actually used to be a RAWK specialty. Back in the Golden Age (the Rafa years) every other post was started with a Latin quote, e.g. --

“Perfer et obdura, dolor hic tibi proderit olim were the words echoing in my mind as I looked down on the soggy oatcake on my plate. Stoke away was always a difficult fixture..."*
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:lol:
 
Omg omg omg

Can you please point me to anywhere that indicates that the word negro is racist. As as far as i am aware its a more PC description than african american or "black guy".

Not arsed about the context it was used in, as no one seems to be arsed about the meaning in south america.
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This was actually a serious post in RAWK!! What a fecking imbicile!!
 
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