RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2011/2012)
- Thread starter Plan M
- Start date
I bet we have a worse record. 3 times in 3 seasons
What?
I doubt we have been out of the top 4 many more than 3 times in the last 3 seasons
I bet we have a worse record. 3 times in 3 seasons
You are fully aware that we've been in the top 2 since the start of the season. That is how many weeks they've been in the top 4 since 2009...
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=270748.2440
That 2nd post sums up RAWK - some are really trying their hardest to find positives about a player that has been absolute dog turd for nearly a whole season
That 2nd post sums up RAWK - some are really trying their hardest to find positives about a player that has been absolute dog turd for nearly a whole season
I know there is quite a bit of idiocy in RAWK, but this thread for me is - for all the right reasons - one of my favourite football threads this season. I don't think we have enough in-depth tactical threads on United. Would love to see more of these:
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287630.0
I’ve written before in certain threads about the importance of zone 14 in the modern game. This is the area immediately outside the penalty area, as indicated on the diagram below.
The importance of operating ‘between the lines’ isn’t a secret in football, as players who operate in ‘the hole’ have been around for a long time, and their value well recognised. However, the tactical make-up of the best teams in the world over the last 10 years have been structured to maximise the effectiveness of zone 14 in attack, while providing the necessary defensive system to prevent opponents operating in this zone.
At Euro 2004, over 50% of all successful passes into the penalty area came from zone 14, and evidence from the Premier League in the middle of the last decade suggested that about 75% of goals were scored either directly from zone 14, or from a final pass played from this zone.
The 4-2-3-1 system (which can also look like, or be adapted to, a 4-4-1-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 or 4-2-2-2) has become the formation of choice for the tactically astute manager over the last decade, particularly in big games. There are a number of very good reasons for this:
1. Double pivot - two defensive midfielders to the layman. With possitionally aware midfielders, you can prevent the opposition operating in zone 5. (their zone 14). This allows a pressing team to control the most dangerous areas effectively, while still allowing the front 4 to work together and hunt in packs.
2. Progressive full backs - with a back 4 comprising of the CBs and CMs, the full backs are able to join attacks with confidence a mistake can be covered.
3. Multiple players are able to operate in zone 14 as width can be provided by the full-backs and added freedom to have runners ahead of the ball provided by the double pivot
My view is we are neglecting the importance of zone 14 both in attack and defence (zone 5).
Our opponents get a lot of time and space in this zone when they attack, particularly when Lucas and Spearing are missing. It often looks too easy for opponents to get good possession in this zone facing our goal (Campell dropped off and turned on the ball before shooting against the post for Sunderland's goal today).
In attack, we do not operate in this zone very effectively. We either build too much of our play down the wings or rarely have options ahead of the ball on the few occasions we do get good possession in zone 14.
As for our crossing, it is ineffective, not purely because of execution, but because of how we get the ball into crossing areas. It isn’t just about getting bodies into the box.
Research carried out looking at the style of play of successful teams at the highest level indicates that the best teams construct attacks in an outside-inside-outside fashion, where the ball is played wide as it enters the attacking third, whereas less successful teams play up the wings into the final third before crossing the ball.
If a ball is played wide late, it could go to either wing, which means the man who then crosses it is likely to have more time and space. It also means that the opposite full-back is less likely to be in position to cover the back post, and the centre backs less likely to be in position to clear the cross.
Van Persie’s first goal against us is a great example of how to work a crossing opportunity. Rosicky cuts into the centre of the pitch before spreading it wide into the final third to Sagna, who had space as Enrique had moved across to pick up Walcott’s run, while Downing tracks Rosicky as he carries the ball infield. (Incidentally, Walcott’s move off the right could be covered by a holding midfielder if we had a double pivot).
This screenshot also highlights just how much space there is between our midfield and defence.
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287630.0
I’ve written before in certain threads about the importance of zone 14 in the modern game. This is the area immediately outside the penalty area, as indicated on the diagram below.
The importance of operating ‘between the lines’ isn’t a secret in football, as players who operate in ‘the hole’ have been around for a long time, and their value well recognised. However, the tactical make-up of the best teams in the world over the last 10 years have been structured to maximise the effectiveness of zone 14 in attack, while providing the necessary defensive system to prevent opponents operating in this zone.
At Euro 2004, over 50% of all successful passes into the penalty area came from zone 14, and evidence from the Premier League in the middle of the last decade suggested that about 75% of goals were scored either directly from zone 14, or from a final pass played from this zone.
The 4-2-3-1 system (which can also look like, or be adapted to, a 4-4-1-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 or 4-2-2-2) has become the formation of choice for the tactically astute manager over the last decade, particularly in big games. There are a number of very good reasons for this:
1. Double pivot - two defensive midfielders to the layman. With possitionally aware midfielders, you can prevent the opposition operating in zone 5. (their zone 14). This allows a pressing team to control the most dangerous areas effectively, while still allowing the front 4 to work together and hunt in packs.
2. Progressive full backs - with a back 4 comprising of the CBs and CMs, the full backs are able to join attacks with confidence a mistake can be covered.
3. Multiple players are able to operate in zone 14 as width can be provided by the full-backs and added freedom to have runners ahead of the ball provided by the double pivot
My view is we are neglecting the importance of zone 14 both in attack and defence (zone 5).
Our opponents get a lot of time and space in this zone when they attack, particularly when Lucas and Spearing are missing. It often looks too easy for opponents to get good possession in this zone facing our goal (Campell dropped off and turned on the ball before shooting against the post for Sunderland's goal today).
In attack, we do not operate in this zone very effectively. We either build too much of our play down the wings or rarely have options ahead of the ball on the few occasions we do get good possession in zone 14.
As for our crossing, it is ineffective, not purely because of execution, but because of how we get the ball into crossing areas. It isn’t just about getting bodies into the box.
Research carried out looking at the style of play of successful teams at the highest level indicates that the best teams construct attacks in an outside-inside-outside fashion, where the ball is played wide as it enters the attacking third, whereas less successful teams play up the wings into the final third before crossing the ball.
If a ball is played wide late, it could go to either wing, which means the man who then crosses it is likely to have more time and space. It also means that the opposite full-back is less likely to be in position to cover the back post, and the centre backs less likely to be in position to clear the cross.
Van Persie’s first goal against us is a great example of how to work a crossing opportunity. Rosicky cuts into the centre of the pitch before spreading it wide into the final third to Sagna, who had space as Enrique had moved across to pick up Walcott’s run, while Downing tracks Rosicky as he carries the ball infield. (Incidentally, Walcott’s move off the right could be covered by a holding midfielder if we had a double pivot).
This screenshot also highlights just how much space there is between our midfield and defence.
I personally am enjoying the interplay between "THERE ARE NO REDS IN MANCHESTER" and "THE REF FROM YESTERDAY WAS FROM MANCHESTER"
Otherwise known as the Scouse-bile paradox.
Other odd views they have include:
The league is fixed, unless we win it.
Roy was shite but Kenny is taking us in the right direction.
Ferguson is a dour scottish cnut, but Kenny is a wiley defender of the faith.
Injury time is given purely for the benefit of United only.
Goals and points are less important than shirt deals.
at Stoke fans singing " he cheats, he dives, he hates the Jackson five.. Suarez Suarez"
What?
I doubt we have been out of the top 4 many more than 3 times in the last 3 seasons
That's the point. Nevermind....
And the chants of 'Suarez, You know what you are' in a potteries accent was heard over the commentary loud and clear all through the match. And with little response from the Kop.
I had thought they'd finally cottoned on to the whole "refrain from watching Untied play and not we might not get enraged for the weekend.." but then saw that the thread was locked and discussion was discouraged due to the Muamba incident.
RAWK Should be cracking today...
Knew I could rely on Liverpool to cheer me up after today.
Full time match thread: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=291442.0
I think I might piss myself
last i saw they were winning 1-2 near the end of the game and they ended up losing 3-2
there will be banning's and locked thread galore on there tonight
Swansea just 3 points behind. Newcastle already well clear.
this is so fecking hilarious. 2-0 up, weren't they?Kicking myself. Aaaaarrghhh. Was going to put £10 on QPR given Howard Webb was the referee and I didn't. What a fecking prick. I know the man is utterly bent and it was fecking nailed on. Why. Why. Why. Why??!
Why is it never them playing shit always the fecking ref.
Why is it never them playing shit always the fecking ref.
........Andy@Allerton said:
"we're just unlucky. if it wasn't for the post/ref/alignment of the stars (*delete as appropriate) then we'd be top of the league....."
Can never keep up with those threads. Already 6 pages.
I want North West teams to stay up...
I see seven locked threads.
what game was this muppet watching.
Lots of positives today!
Coates and Kuyt scored great goals.
Downing looked sharp.
Henderson is defo a player for the future.
Kenny!!!
Lots of positives today!
Coates and Kuyt scored great goals.
Downing looked sharp.
Henderson is defo a player for the future.
Kenny!!!
I wonder what the bancount will be tonight?
" Mathematically can't win the league now. Shit."
As do I to be honest.
I don't think the Scouse will go down this season Sultan, they're safe...
ditto
" Mathematically can't win the league now. Shit."
But they have qualified for Europe. You know the Mickey Mouse Cup. Altogether now Thursday Night on Channel 5.
They simply did not use zone 14 well enough.
Not technically RAWK, although I suspect he may post there...
That face.
That face.
......
Mathematically they can.
But they have qualified for Europe. You know the Mickey Mouse Cup. Altogether now Thursday Night on Channel 5.
Errr, we were in that until recently, don't knock it...