It's obvious what he brings to the team for anyone with half a brain and pair of working eyes to see.
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 43
- Goals
- 16
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
It's obvious what he brings to the team for anyone with half a brain and pair of working eyes to see.
Then it should be easy to point them out. You don't, presumably because you can't.
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken. I watch games attentively, including for other types of contribution. But I don't usually see a lot of those from him. Which, again, is perfectly fine with me, as long as he's scoring goals.
What even are half these stats?
Even when he wasnt scoring in the league it was clear how much talent he had. That galatasaray goal had it all - strength, pace, calmness in front of goal. From game one it was clear he had the physical side. Looking at him, just turned 21, really emphasises how much we tend to overrate some of our own products- dont get me wrong I rated both greenwood and rashford very highly when they were coming through but neither looked to be so complete. Attitude, workrate and maturity is miles beyond both, and countless other failed signings.
Its criminal how scathing so many were early on, happy to batter him just to shoehorn it into more ten hag criticism
Its criminal how scathing so many were early on, happy to batter him just to shoehorn it into more ten hag criticism
His hold-up play yesterday was very, very good and that's in spite of the Luton CBs having him in a sleeper hold every time the ball went to his feet when his back was to goal.
He's no Firmino obviously (whose main contribution to Liverpool was linking play) but that's to be expected as Hojlund is a completely different style of player.
What even are half these stats?
Manchester United Stats, Premier League | FBref.com. If you place the marker over the table heading, the stat is explained.
Absolutely. His performance yesterday was far above his general level this season. For example, he completed a whopping 29 passes (12.8/90 season average), and had 52 touches (25.2/90 season as a whole). 3 shots on goal, which he's never had before in a PL game (he averages 0.92). Also agree completely about his quality hold-up play. If he keeps this up, he's becoming a different kind of player. But for now, this is an extreme outlier.
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I'm just glad this kid is proving me right. Supply him he will score....
I can, he's added physicality, work rate, agression, off the ball movement, link up play, hold up play and now he's added goals. Everything he's doing more than what was there before and he's getting progressively better every week.
Looks like you added stats after I initially responded. A lot of those are going to be low because he's a centre forward, tackling, progressive passes etc.. you don't expect your main striker to be high on those lists.
Here's a comparison on his overall stats compared to Haaland, Kane and Nunez this season. Outside of goals take a look at how he compares to those 3 in terms of passing, shot creating actions, possession and defensive actions.
https://fbref.com/tiny/ulZiX
Tackles
Blocks
Interceptions
Loose ball recoveries
Carries into the final 3rd
Progressive pass average distance
...
It's a list mainly made up of things that are irrelevant to someone in his position even if you're talking about things he does outside of scoring.
Exactly, compare him to other players in that position and he's not far off in terms of all round contribution. Some just don't want to see it.
There was a really good compilation posted a few weeks ago that has unfortunately been taken down. This has some one of the same moments, but also includes all his goals - Link.
I think we have seen examples now that he can lay it off with his back to goal, he can carry the ball at speed, and he can make good through balls to the wingers. I think he can improve on all of that, but the building blocks are there for a pretty good all-around number 9 that does more than score goals.
Weird argument here. I remember loads of commentators etc. praising his all-round game when he was struggling for goals. Seemed to be a consensus among quite a few on here too.
Maybe you're desperate to validate your previous negative opinions on him?
The current stats don't really matter to his abilities anyway. At this stage he's not a complete article, he's developing - if he was the finished product they'd be compelling but he's not. Which means inconsistency which will impact the stats. Not every game is as convincing as yesterday and the team is not even a top 4 team which means no domination in games, which will slow down how many of these actions you can do to show on the stats.
But what you have to identify is whether he has the attributes in the first place, that's what the scouts and ETH would look at when spending 65 million quid. We already know they didn't do it because he scored 35 goals or did 18 Assists.
Games like yesterday do evidence the fact he has (nearly) everything required in his locker. Nothing was a surprise, we've seen him do all that stuff at various times. He's had games where he held the ball well and passed it and didn't score. He's destroyed people with pace. His very first appearance on a pitch he out muscled an Arsenal defender. He's had a few quiet games for sure but usually he demonstrates one of his big qualities.
I say nearly because I hope they're whipping in crosses for an hour in training. His work in the air could use improvement. Would also be good training for our players that seem to have an inability to put in a sensible cross.
But what you have to identify is whether he has the attributes in the first place, that's what the scouts and ETH would look at when spending 65 million quid. We already know they didn't do it because he scored 35 goals or did 18 Assists.
Games like yesterday do evidence the fact he has (nearly) everything required in his locker. Nothing was a surprise, we've seen him do all that stuff at various times. He's had games where he held the ball well and passed it and didn't score. He's destroyed people with pace. His very first appearance on a pitch he out muscled an Arsenal defender. He's had a few quiet games for sure but usually he demonstrates one of his big qualities.
I say nearly because I hope they're whipping in crosses for an hour in training. His work in the air could use improvement. Would also be good training for our players that seem to have an inability to put in a sensible cross.
He was very good, even with a defender trying to pants him every two minutes. Selfless work in the second half dropping deep to help us get up the pitch despite being on a hattrick.
Well, things like physicality, work rate, aggression and off the ball movement are great qualities to have in a striker, but they only add tangible value to the extent that they lead to tangible outputs. Not all such are measurable, but they should at least be visible. There's not been that much great link-up play, generally speaking, nor hold-up play on the level of what he showed yesterday. And in case there's a misunderstanding on this point: I am not in any way unhappy with him, and still less with how he's developing. As things now stand, I consider him a success signing, and believe there's good hope he'll continue to develop. I just don't see that there's good reason so far to think he's a player who has a solid positive impact even when he's not scoring.
Relevance of stats: Indeed. But the problem lies with your question, not with my answer to it. You're the one who asked for an overview of all the areas where he didn't contribute much, which I did point out wasn't a very adequate question.
Interesting stats comparison. It's a somewhat different discussion with each of these players what they add besides scoring. Immediate reaction; no big surprises except Kane not being more involved on the ball outside of shooting. Wonder if that's a new development at Bayern.
Yes, but as said, the problem in that regard really lies with the question, not the answer.
No they weren't, his quality was always obvious as pointed out by people at the time.
Good luck to the kid... he has a lot to his game, the main aspect is a terrific attitude. He deserves the luck coming his way (second goal..) and has earned all of the goals and positive statements. He is now a key player, and he could be better still.. he's powerful, hungry, fast, and with confidence, a more responsible player and team member. He is essential to our whole attacking play. And 90% of that is because he has a good attitude and works hard. It's all fans have been asking for.
Haven't properly watched United play in a while but the bit I caught from yesterday was quite impressive. Link up game has come on tremendously and he actually bullies defenders now. Looks like he's coming into his own and i'm quite pleased for him.
This is a much more valid perspective than the original question, and one that advances the discussion.
It brings us back however to the centrality of scoring. If he doesn't contribute scoring to a great degree, a striker would need to offer quite a lot in other areas to justify a starting spot on a good team - much more than is normal for a player in his position, and much more than a top striker who does score many goals.
Of the 3 players you're using, his style and statistical profile is most similar to Haaland's. I don't think anyone would argue that Haaland's value isn't heavily tied to his scoring output - if he was the sort of player who put up 7 goals a season, we'd be comparing him to Dominic Solanke (of old). And he would not be starting games for City.
With Nunez, his comparative ineffectiveness in scoring is exactly what makes him a controversial player. That said, his output in many other offensive categories is quite significantly better than Højlund's. Eye-test wise, I think there's also some merit to the view that his constant aggressive runs in behind the back 4 is a strong contribution. Højlund has that element in his game too, but not to the same degree - more usually, it's Garnacho or Rashford doing that for us.
Kane is the one player among these where you'd expect he'd to a large extent justify his reputation even without considering his goal output. But that perception is based on watching him in the PL. The most striking element of your comparison was his unexpectedly weak stats in this regard. I wonder though if that reflects a changed role with Bayern? I tried putting in his last season at Spurs instead, and they do seem to be quite a bit better in many areas.
In any case though, Kane is of course also a player whose goal output is the better part of his reputation. If we want a measure of what it would take for a top team striker to be considered good without being a very good goalscorer, then we need to look at someone like Gabriel Jesus:
Player Comparison: Rasmus Højlund vs. Erling Haaland vs. Harry Kane vs. Darwin Núñez vs. Gabriel Jesus | FBref.com
In short, I don't see a clear case here that this is a player who'd justify his place without scoring much, through other things he brings. Rather the contrary.
However, he IS now scoring. And already before he did, he was doing a lot of good things that justified a belief that he would be scoring. So everyone's happy here, it's not that.
Cannot believe there are still some people in here virtually tripling down on their shitty opinion of him
Harry Kane is at Bayern, let it go, for your own sanity.
Harry Kane is at Bayern, let it go, for your own sanity.
I don't have a previous negative opinion on him. And there have always been lots of positives to his all-round game. My point is simply that there's a distinction between that and what you actually and tangibly contribute to the team's performance. Trying hard is not the same thing as succeeding. And having qualities is not the same thing as having an impact. It's perfectly fine for him not to contribute extensively in large areas of our on-the-ball game, which he demonstrably mostly isn't. But then he needs to score goals. That's all.
Are you one of those whose every argument is made on the "evidence" of stats?
Højlund was vital to our win yesterday. He scored twice. His hold-up play was brilliant. He keeps stressing and haressing goalies and defenders in their build-up play. He makes several rather brilliant runs every match. He is hardly given service by his wingers, which your stats would back up. You can use stats as abritrarily as you wish, but if you watch him play, you would be hard pressed not to find what he brings to the side.
Cannot believe there are still some people in here virtually tripling down on their shitty opinion of him
Harry Kane is at Bayern, let it go, for your own sanity.
We still have people refusing to admit that he's been better than Weghorst the entire time
Absolutely.
Cannot believe there are still some people in here virtually tripling down on their shitty opinion of him
Harry Kane is at Bayern, let it go, for your own sanity.
Well, I could point out that I've stated repeatedly that I don't have a low opinion of him, or that I'm not in any way unhappy with him but that would probably be wasted on someone who obviously can't be bothered to fecking read and think anyway.
Oh God.
No. My argument is not based on stats. In fact, I hadn't even looked at either his season stats or yesterdays match report until we were quite far into this discussion. My argument is based on watching every United PL game attentively.
Yes, Højlund was vital to our win yesterday and performed very well indeed. Including his hold-up play. As I've already written several times, for all the good that seems to do.
You can also add Progressive passes, passes, passes into final third, passes into penalty box, touches, touches in attacking third, progressive carries, carries into penalty area all these are useless when comparing with players who are not a CF.
I'm just happy he's not a bust. It's really hard to build a team when your big money signings keep failing. Avoid the injuries grasshopper.
Can't be bothered to look at the stats, but am enjoying his contributions. He's clearly not shit when watching him, his hold-up play is really good. Now he's scoring consistently, we've got a potentially fantastic player on our hands (finally).
Still early days, but I'm really glad he's a striker for Manchester United.
Still early days, but I'm really glad he's a striker for Manchester United.
There are actually CFs who do quite a lot of the above. For instance, Bruno Fernandes is the only player on United who has more key passes/90 than Gabriel Jesus.
Mainly however, this was in reply to a question of in what areas RH did not make a great contribution besides scoring. The answer can't be more relevant than the question.
No relation of course
Speaking of relations, I hope we are keeping an eye on his younger twin brothers Emil and Oscar - both are in the FC Copenhagen squad. Imagine three Højlund's on the pitch at the same time
Very unusual take. If anything, I would argue Hojlund adds more value to the team than any other striker in the league if we ignore goal scoring. His goals are actually a nice bonus right now.
Hojlund’s hold up play is fantastic. Especially when under severe pressure from defenders climbing all over him. Not only is he able to hold them off, he is able to turn and then drive forward with the ball. His first time lay offs and flicks often lead to dangerous breaks for us. Not only can he lay it off, he has the pace and power to then join the attack and arrive in a dangerous area.
He also has excellent close control dribbling for a big striker. His ability to travel with the ball is as good as wingers. I’d even argue he can dribble better than some of our own wingers.
To add to that, the weight of his passing and through balls is nearly always on point. It’s not often you get a striker who is so comfortable making defensive line breaking passes consistently.
I honestly can’t see how there can be any suggestion that Hojlund offers nothing besides his goals.
There’s a reason why so many of us were positive about his value even when he failed to score in 19 games in a row. It was evident he was bringing so much to the team. Even more evident when he was missing away to Nottingham Forest and we had to resort to playing Rashford through the middle. We got outplayed by Forest and couldn’t string any sort of attacks together as the ball wasn’t sticking up front with Rashford.
This is the thing I've been most pleased with. His goals have been great to see and brilliant for his confidence, but I was a little concerned in his first handful of games that if he didn't pop up with a goal he remained absolutely peripheral. That's definitely changed and he's shown good signs that he can be that focal point as a 9. Players obviously take time to adjust to new teams and leagues and it's good to see this happening to such good effect.
No, this is not a relevant answer. Relevant answer would be comparing him to other CFs. You can't compare a CF stats with CM, CB, FB, Winger for obvious reasons, especially the ones like progressive passes, passes into penalty areas and all that.
Only 3 Arsenal players have worse Progressive passes than G Jesus and around 6-7 ManUtd players with worse progressive passes than G.Jesus.
He is 12th for passes into penalty area
Almost Last in passes completed, even worse than Raya. Only Ramsdale and Eddie has worse passes completed than G Jesus
4th last for passes completed %
4th last for passes in final third
3rd last for touches per 90 mins
3rd last for carries per 90 mins
Around 5th or 6th last for carrying distance per 90 mins
3rd last for progressive distance
and in mid for most other stats.
That's why it's not relevant to compare your CFs to other positions. They usually have least touches and what they do is lot of off the ball stuff.
I think you might have to look in a mirror here. It’s fine to be wrong, but to not admit it is just a little pathetic - Hojlunds potential has been obvious since Atalanta, as he already then had a few skills that very few other players possess, not least his pace with the ball.
His physical presence and holding the ball as he did in our first game where he should’ve had a penalty, his neat little lay offs (a couple with his heel) under massive pressure, his turning on defenders including when he left Van der Veen in the dust, his through passes for Rashford and especially Garnacho that should’ve given him a few more assists. Is that enough?
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